Tightening the timetables for the tourists

strassenwo!f

(Apologies if this has been covered on another thread).

I seldom use the bus on the rare occasions I'm in Dublin, mostly because the majority of my ports of call are within the area between the two canals, and when I am actually in that area these can mostly be covered by bicycle or on foot.

I was in Ballsbridge the other day, and I needed to visit a location close to Newtownpark Avenue - not an area I know terribly well.

I looked at the timetable at the bus stop outside the old sweepstakes building, and discovered that there were a number of buses heading in the right direction. As far as I remember, all were going through Blackrock village. The information about their later destinations was a bit sketchy, Louglinstown, Dalkey, Sandyford, etc. And I wasn't sure which one would bring me closest to my destination.

Yet they all had information about where the bus had come from, and the time that it had left its starting point. So I could read that the bus had originated at O'Connell Street or Merrion Square, and I could read the time that the bus had left these locations - all completely irrelevant and impenetrable information for all but die-hard users of the bus.

If I was interested in what was happening in O'Connell Street or Merrion Square, I'd have been waiting for a bus on the other side of the road.

The time that it was expected to arrive at my stop was absent, and detailed information as to the route the bus was actually taking towards its destination - the norm in most other European cities - was also missing.

Why is this?

Why does Dublin Bus post timetables at local bus stops which include enormous amounts of irrelevant information and exclude the most relevant information.

Other cities can produce timetables which show reasonably accurate information about expected arrival times and a full account of the route which each bus will take after it leaves the relevant bus stop.

Why not Dublin?

AlekSmart

(Apologies if this has been covered on another thread).

I think this topic IS currently being covered quite comprehensively on a few threads.

Try a search for RTPI,AVLS,Network Direct or perhaps the Quality Bus Network Office where information overload awaits .....;)

Cookie_Monster

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Yet they all had information about where the bus had come from, and the time that it had left its starting point. So I could read that the bus had originated at O'Connell Street or Merrion Square, and I could read the time that the bus had left these locations - all completely irrelevant and impenetrable information for all but die-hard users of the bus.

www.dublinbus.ie

as for time when due at stop, guestimation is your best bet.

munchkin_utd

I thought exactly the same thing after experiencing continental public transport properly for the first time. It seemed like the most ludicrous thing on the planet.

At peak times though it sorta makes sense.
A rigid timetable then is useless as diabolical traffic can feck up any estimates you have. And the alternative is to run the busses with massive padding built in to allow for jams. BUT if they DONT get stuck in jams they are crawling in order to stick to a very slow timetable.

Still though, Off peak evenings/ Sundays especially when there next to no traffic, there's absolutely completely no excuse not to have a normal timetable at every stop telling you exactly when the busses are leaving from that particular stop.

KC61

strassenwo!f wrote: »

(Apologies if this has been covered on another thread).

I seldom use the bus on the rare occasions I'm in Dublin, mostly because the majority of my ports of call are within the area between the two canals, and when I am actually in that area these can mostly be covered by bicycle or on foot.

I was in Ballsbridge the other day, and I needed to visit a location close to Newtownpark Avenue - not an area I know terribly well.

I looked at the timetable at the bus stop outside the old sweepstakes building, and discovered that there were a number of buses heading in the right direction. As far as I remember, all were going through Blackrock village. The information about their later destinations was a bit sketchy, Louglinstown, Dalkey, Sandyford, etc. And I wasn't sure which one would bring me closest to my destination.

Yet they all had information about where the bus had come from, and the time that it had left its starting point. So I could read that the bus had originated at O'Connell Street or Merrion Square, and I could read the time that the bus had left these locations - all completely irrelevant and impenetrable information for all but die-hard users of the bus.

If I was interested in what was happening in O'Connell Street or Merrion Square, I'd have been waiting for a bus on the other side of the road.

The time that it was expected to arrive at my stop was absent, and detailed information as to the route the bus was actually taking towards its destination - the norm in most other European cities - was also missing.

Why is this?

Why does Dublin Bus post timetables at local bus stops which include enormous amounts of irrelevant information and exclude the most relevant information.

Other cities can produce timetables which show reasonably accurate information about expected arrival times and a full account of the route which each bus will take after it leaves the relevant bus stop.

Why not Dublin?

The provision of clear and appropriate information to customers has historically been the one part of Dublin Bus that really has failed to deliver.

This will change however over the next 18 months as Network Direct and other improvements are finally rolled out.

Why did it happen? Well the lack of any management tool to give accurate timings at intermediate points for buses over the past 10 years certainly has not helped, and this is down principally to the government withholding funding for a proper control system.

That is now being rolled out - all buses are currently being fitted with GPS equipment that will link in with the new central control centre in Broadstone, allowing route controllers to monitor every bus using AVLC (Automatic Vehicle Location and Control) systems and without having to call the drivers over the radio as they do currently.

The AVLC system will facilitate Real Time Passenger Information, with Dublin Bus going to rollout online and mobile real time queries where customers can check when the next bus should arrive at their stop, and Dublin City Council installing on-street displays.

It will also enable schedulers to prepare far more realistic schedules based on the data coming from the AVLC system, and as a result to produce timetables with intermediate times.

The new style bus stops which are in the city centre all have schematic route maps showing the full route and these maps will be rolled out across the network as Network Direct is implemented.

There has been a huge information deficiency and I do blame both some in Dublin Bus who could not get to grips with this, but primarily the civil servants and the governments who have waxed lyrically over the years about rail projects but failed to recognise the importance of the bus network. That is now finally changing and I think that over the next year or so we will see a dramatic improvement both in terms of information and services.

strassenwo!f

Points taken, lads. Sorry I didn't check for a thread on the issue. It was a bit of a rant.:o

And, KC61, many thanks for the update on the improvements to be enjoyed in the near future.:)

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

That is now finally changing and I think that over the next year or so we will see a dramatic improvement both in terms of information and services.

I'll believe it when I see it, and not until then.

As you say the track record in delivering these kind of things is so bad that it's difficult to have any faith. Especially as it's by and large all the same people in charge.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

I'll believe it when I see it, and not until then.

As you say the track record in delivering these kind of things is so bad that it's difficult to have any faith. Especially as it's by and large all the same people in charge.

I think that's a little unfair - the spider maps on the city stops are a vast improvement, as are the google maps facility on the website and the arrival of a fairly decent network schematic map.

Take a trip on the 123 and you'll see the GPS displays in service.

All these things take time as it involves a complete overhaul of the company, but I do honestly believe that the will is there to deliver some real improvements.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

I think that's a little unfair - the spider maps on the city stops are a vast improvement, as are the google maps facility on the website and the arrival of a fairly decent network schematic map.

Take a trip on the 123 and you'll see the GPS displays in service.

All these things take time as it involves a complete overhaul of the company, but I do honestly believe that the will is there to deliver some real improvements.

I remember seeing the digital displays at the bus stop on Parkgate St (opposite Ryans), showing what bus was due and when. They were great. That was 5 years ago, and they haven't been seen since.

I worked on a project in a state owned company that was due to be delivered in 2002. It still hasn't been finished and is gone 4 times over budget. Part of the problem is the main contractor insisted on buying hardware and software that wasn't up to the job and rather than admit failure the project has been kept on life support.

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

I remember seeing the digital displays at the bus stop on Parkgate St (opposite Ryans), showing what bus was due and when. They were great. That was 5 years ago, and they haven't been seen since.

I worked on a project in a state owned company that was due to be delivered in 2002. It still hasn't been finished and is gone 4 times over budget. Part of the problem is the main contractor insisted on buying hardware and software that wasn't up to the job and rather than admit failure the project has been kept on life support.

That was a trial project.

As I said above, however, the government funding was withdrawn for the original project, which in my view is unforgiveable. But it happened.

The company is only now implementing the project because funding was finally made available for a full proper system of fleet control, the most visible element to the public so far being the displays on the single decks on route 123.

A test on-street display has been installed by DCC on the Howth Road, although I'm not sure if it's connected up yet.

spareman

This has been done to death, Its coming..... In fact all ringsend routes will be on the AVL system from this Sunday I believe, not sure when the real time displays are being installed at stops.

etchyed

KC61 wrote: »

The company is only now implementing the project because funding was finally made available for a full proper system of fleet control, the most visible element to the public so far being the displays on the single decks on route 123.

Displays which have only been ordered for the 123. As far as I can remember, there don't seem to be plans to put them on any other route.

KC61

etchyed wrote: »

Displays which have only been ordered for the 123. As far as I can remember, there don't seem to be plans to put them on any other route.

This element is a trial - it may well be extended to the rest of the fleet in due course.

snappieT

KC61 wrote: »

This element is a trial - it may well be extended to the rest of the fleet in due course.

It will be extended.

foggy_lad

snappieT wrote: »

It will be extended.

so when are all the bus stops going to get their information displays showing the time for next busses?

Bucklesman

strassenwo!f wrote: »

So I could read that the bus had originated at O'Connell Street or Merrion Square, and I could read the time that the bus had left these locations - all completely irrelevant and impenetrable information for all but die-hard users of the bus.

Believe me, it's irrelevant and inpenetrable to everyone.

Victor

In a certain way, the "from" information was more correct than the "To" information, especially where there were several destinations on the same timetable, e.g. on route 7 every second bus used to operate to Loughlinstown or Cherrywood. Saying "From City Centre" was easier than "To Loughlinstown / Cherrywood" http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/7/ Other timetables would have more extreme examples, e.g. the 33 where it says "Towards Balbriggan", but many buses stop short at Skerries http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/33/

There has been a strong move toward "To".

snappieT

foggy_lad wrote: »

so when are all the bus stops going to get their information displays showing the time for next busses?

That's a later phase, and even when it happens, not all bus stops get the screens, only the 1000 most-used stops in the city.

The next stage is to roll out the equipment to all buses. Once that's done (planned for end of 2010), they will launch an SMS/www lookup system, so you'll be able to check through your phone, which is good enough for me. No doubt there'll be a few iPhone apps to make the whole process a little easier (I, at least, intend to develop one).