Very unpleasant doctor

LegacyUser

Hi guys.
I'm a male of 21 years. I do some kick boxing in my spare time.
I suffered a broken jaw last March but it's healed now and I went to a specialist to find out exactly when I could get back in the ring.

So I took the day off college and went up to dublin to see him.
After waiting for 3/4 hours, getting x-rays etc, I saw the man himself.

He asked me what happened. I told him I was kicked in the jaw, it was broken, got surgery, felt good now, but wanted to be sure, as it was a nightmare and I don't want to get back in the ring without knowledge it's fully healed, as I don't want a relapse.

He looked at the x-ray briefly, looked at me, smiled and said it was fine.
I went to ask him some questions.

He became very dismissive and told me again.. "look, it's fine, it's fine.."
I persisted, saying that my coach believed it would take at least another 3 months for the bone to knit fully and be back to full strength.
He told me I should listen to my coach if he thinks he knows best; then he held the door open for me to leave.

Has anyone had an experience like this with a specialist??
I regret walking out of there without getting angry; I wasn't sure how to deal with the situation, but if I had to do it again, I know for sure I'd speak my mind a bit more.

Angry with doctor

Angry with doctor wrote: »

Hi guys.
I'm a male of 21 years. I do some kick boxing in my spare time.
I suffered a broken jaw last March but it's healed now and I went to a specialist to find out exactly when I could get back in the ring.

So I took the day off college and went up to dublin to see him.
After waiting for 3/4 hours, getting x-rays etc, I saw the man himself.

He asked me what happened. I told him I was kicked in the jaw, it was broken, got surgery, felt good now, but wanted to be sure, as it was a nightmare and I don't want to get back in the ring without knowledge it's fully healed, as I don't want a relapse.

He looked at the x-ray briefly, looked at me, smiled and said it was fine.
I went to ask him some questions.

He became very dismissive and told me again.. "look, it's fine, it's fine.."
I persisted, saying that my coach believed it would take at least another 3 months for the bone to knit fully and be back to full strength.
He told me I should listen to my coach if he thinks he knows best; then he held the door open for me to leave.

Has anyone had an experience like this with a specialist??
I regret walking out of there without getting angry; I wasn't sure how to deal with the situation, but if I had to do it again, I know for sure I'd speak my mind a bit more.

What's the problem here? You went to a medical professional, asked for his opinion and then kept insisting your coach knew better. Why did you go and see him if you trusted your coach's opinion? Sometimes doctors are wrong, but telling them someone who isn't a doctor thinks X or Y after they've told you one thing generally isn't a good idea. I mean, what did you want him to do? Do a U-Turn and tell you your coach was right? He shouldn't have been dismissive but ultimately, if he thinks it's fine, he thinks it's fine. Perhaps you should seek a second opinion just to make sure? If you're worried, ask questions but make sure not to mention your coach.

antoinolachtnai

Maybe the doctor has a reason to be angry with you?

You asked him for his opinion, and he gave it.

You put someone else's opinion to him, a more conservative opinion. He didn't dismiss that person's opinion, he left it up to you.

What else was there really to talk about?

He may have been abrupt and dismissive, and he shouldn't have been, but really it sounds like he dealt with the main issue.

Look at it from his point of view, he is probably dealing with all sorts of people every day with all sorts of problems, maybe including people who will be permanently disabled. He is probably really busy, seeing how he has such a big queue of people to see. Your concerns might not seem very significant to him.

katie99

Your consultant told you your jaw is fine. He looked at the x-rays.
He looked at your jaw. He told you everything is fine. Why would you even bring up with your consultant what your coach told you about the length of time it takes to heal?
Does your coach know better than your consultant in matters of surgery?

From my own experience most doctors and consultants provide 7 minutes per patient. Maybe that time rises to 10 in extreme cases. But 7 mins is the average.

You could always sue your consultant if the jaw hasn't properly mended.

Just wondering though. What did the surgeon say to you about the length of recovery time?

Emme

Angry with doctor wrote: »

Hi guys.
I'm a male of 21 years. I do some kick boxing in my spare time.
I suffered a broken jaw last March but it's healed now and I went to a specialist to find out exactly when I could get back in the ring.

So I took the day off college and went up to dublin to see him.
After waiting for 3/4 hours, getting x-rays etc, I saw the man himself.

He asked me what happened. I told him I was kicked in the jaw, it was broken, got surgery, felt good now, but wanted to be sure, as it was a nightmare and I don't want to get back in the ring without knowledge it's fully healed, as I don't want a relapse.

He looked at the x-ray briefly, looked at me, smiled and said it was fine.
I went to ask him some questions.

He became very dismissive and told me again.. "look, it's fine, it's fine.."
I persisted, saying that my coach believed it would take at least another 3 months for the bone to knit fully and be back to full strength.
He told me I should listen to my coach if he thinks he knows best; then he held the door open for me to leave.

Has anyone had an experience like this with a specialist??
I regret walking out of there without getting angry; I wasn't sure how to deal with the situation, but if I had to do it again, I know for sure I'd speak my mind a bit more.

He had no right to be so offhand but all medics are very stretched and he probably wanted to get onto the next patient. That's no excuse but it's the reality of the public health service. I work in a hospital and I remember going to an orthopaedic specialist in the public clinic and the man was so obnoxious it was almost entertaining. He shouted at nurses, threw charts across the room and was dressed in a stained, shabby suit.

My mother who has VHI went to see the same specialist in his private rooms a month later and said he was a lovely man, charming, polite and well-dressed :rolleyes:. We have a superb egalitarian health system in this country!!!:mad:

I don't know, the OP's specialist is an expert in his field but his trainer is an expert as well. He might have got more time from a member of the specialist's team but not necessarily the expertise. Perhaps the OP's trainer could recommend another specialist for a second opinion to clear up any confusion.

Trashbat

Couple of points here, and i apologise if i come accross bluntly.

Your coach is being cautious because insurance premiums for Martial Arts clubs are high, and one claim can literally close a club down.

If you are Kickboxing at any kind of competitive standard, the organisers of an event will have to medically clear you to fight anyway, so they'll confirm if your ok.

One of the biggest issues with the health service it people clogging up the system with non essential visits to doctors and hospitals. The consultant should ideally be as polite as possible, but this isn't a perfect world.

It seems to me that you are angry with the fact that you wasted 3-4 hours for a very quick viewing by a doctor.

What do you want him to do? Spend hours going over what is essentially a minor injury and neglect patients with more serious complaints?

Smallbit

Perhaps the consultant has his own opinions about boxing injuries?

Many medical professionals take a dim view of people they assume are willingly exposing themselves to danger when they're busy enough with 'genuine' accidents.

You might have suffered the "injured drunk in A&E" treatment where you get the minimum of civility and no more...

LegacyUser

Well the reason I went to him was for reassurance.

My jaw is not fine. Shortly before I visited him I got a light punch to the jaw in training and it felt like a bolt of lightening went through where the break is.
If that was a full force strike in a bout, there's no doubt in my mind I'd be going back to surgery.

My coach, and his wife as it happens, have significant experience in the field, as regards how long guys have been out for after such an injury, and the standard is 6/8 months.
I've been just over three.

I went to the specialist so he could provide me with a reassuring explanation, so when I get back in the ring I'll have confidence and won't be terrified of what one light strike might do.
It might seem like a minor injury, but putting me out of training is a total and absolute nightmare - I at least expected the specialist to talk me through the injury, the stages of healing, the point where it will be at 100% again etc.

Instead he gave me no insight what-so-ever, as well as lacking in common courtesy and respect.
A guy in his position, getting paid what he is; well, I think one could be forgiven for being under the illusion that he should be able to deal with patients a little more satisfactorily.

irishh_bob

Angry with doctor wrote: »

Hi guys.
I'm a male of 21 years. I do some kick boxing in my spare time.
I suffered a broken jaw last March but it's healed now and I went to a specialist to find out exactly when I could get back in the ring.

So I took the day off college and went up to dublin to see him.
After waiting for 3/4 hours, getting x-rays etc, I saw the man himself.

He asked me what happened. I told him I was kicked in the jaw, it was broken, got surgery, felt good now, but wanted to be sure, as it was a nightmare and I don't want to get back in the ring without knowledge it's fully healed, as I don't want a relapse.

He looked at the x-ray briefly, looked at me, smiled and said it was fine.
I went to ask him some questions.

He became very dismissive and told me again.. "look, it's fine, it's fine.."
I persisted, saying that my coach believed it would take at least another 3 months for the bone to knit fully and be back to full strength.
He told me I should listen to my coach if he thinks he knows best; then he held the door open for me to leave.

Has anyone had an experience like this with a specialist??
I regret walking out of there without getting angry; I wasn't sure how to deal with the situation, but if I had to do it again, I know for sure I'd speak my mind a bit more.

you obviously have had dealings with very few doctors , the doctor you dealt with is the norm ,a doctor ( in ireland ) is the snobbiest of all proffesions , the vast majority are full of thier own importance , a lot of this is because they are given far too much respect in this country
during a consultation , they expect you to sit quiet and simply go on your way when told to , public or private , makes no difference , they know best and everyone else ( didnt spend 6 yrs in school ) knows nothing

btw , a big problem with xray results is finding someone who knows how to read charts properley

R.D. aka MR.D

Hi OP,

I think that what happened to you is terrible. He shouldn't have been dismissive and I think people accepting this kind of attitude is terrible. I'm currently in Argentina where the healthcare system is free. I suffered a bad accident and I couldn't believe the amount of care I received (for free). The doctor was an absolute star as were all the nurses, ambulance men and everyone involved. Argentine doctors do not have an easy time of it or high wages but they still managed to be pleasant and professional.


I'm telling you this so you don't feel like you were in wrong in expecting decent treatment. I've no real advice about what you should do next except maybe get a second opinion.

Is there a complaints procedure? (I've no idea to be honest) If you feel really strongly about it then use one if it exists but if it was me I would probably just try to forget about that bad experience and maybe consider getting private health insurance if you are going to keep up with the kick-boxing. Maybe there is a group scheme you could join or something?

sickofwaiting

katie99 wrote: »

Your consultant told you your jaw is fine. He looked at the x-rays.
He looked at your jaw. He told you everything is fine. Why would you even bring up with your consultant what your coach told you about the length of time it takes to heal?
Does your coach know better than your consultant in matters of surgery?

Try telling that to the parents of the young boy who had the wrong kidney removed a few weeks ago by a careless specialist. Or the guy who had his stomach incorrectly removed two years ago when he was mixed up with a cancer patient.

Doctors who don't listen to patients and don't take a proper look at their charts/situation have left many people in this country in extremely bad situations. The OP obviously feels this doctor wasn't thorough and from the description he gave in his post it sounds to me like he is correct. I would definitely recommend getting a second opinion OP before stepping back in the ring, and if the second doctor says 'you should not set foot in the ring for another X months' I would be on to the first doctor looking for a refund for substandard treatment.

Angry with doctor

Angry with doctor wrote: »

Well the reason I went to him was for reassurance.

My jaw is not fine. Shortly before I visited him I got a light punch to the jaw in training and it felt like a bolt of lightening went through where the break is.
If that was a full force strike in a bout, there's no doubt in my mind I'd be going back to surgery.

My coach, and his wife as it happens, have significant experience in the field, as regards how long guys have been out for after such an injury, and the standard is 6/8 months.
I've been just over three.

I went to the specialist so he could provide me with a reassuring explanation, so when I get back in the ring I'll have confidence and won't be terrified of what one light strike might do.
It might seem like a minor injury, but putting me out of training is a total and absolute nightmare - I at least expected the specialist to talk me through the injury, the stages of healing, the point where it will be at 100% again etc.

Instead he gave me no insight what-so-ever, as well as lacking in common courtesy and respect.
A guy in his position, getting paid what he is; well, I think one could be forgiven for being under the illusion that he should be able to deal with patients a little more satisfactorily.

But what did you want him to do?| If the coach said you'd be out 6-8 months, then why did you bother going to the doctor? The doctor isn't an expert in sports injuries, he can only tell you what he sees on the X-ray, which is that it appears fine, as in it's healed. If you want to put yourself in a position where it might get broken or knocked badly again, the doctor can't really tell you exactly how long you should wait. No bone is ever really the same after it gets broken. Doctors don't have crystal balls, they can only give their opinion. I learned this recently after spending hours a week at the doctor/hospital, that there is no point in asking what's going to happen. They don't know. And the thing doctors hate most is being told 'X who is not a doctor thinks this.' They hear that day in, day out. Wouldn't it annoy you as well?

If your coach says 6-8 months, then wait 6-8 months. Your coach has a better idea of the sort of knocks your jaw could be getting than the doctor does and if you want to err on the side of caution, do so. You said you wanted reassurance, you got reassurance and now you're complaining that you were dismissed. Common sense alone would tell me that repeatedly getting kicked in the jaw I broke wasn't the greatest idea, personally I'd think if you're so concerned about your jaw, why are you going back? There is a chance of breaking it again, whether you wait 3 months or 9.

By all means, complain, ask for a refund, whatever, if you think he was negligent. But I'm not entirely sure what you expected him to do. He gave you his opinion, which was that your jaw was fine.

antoinolachtnai

Can I take it you aren't dealing with the surgeon or team who actually operated on you?

antoin.

LegacyUser

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Can I take it you aren't dealing with the surgeon or team who actually operated on you?

antoin.

Yes, that's correct.
The injury occurred and was treated in thailand.
I can honestly say I've never been in a more pleasant hospital under more pleasant and helpful conditions.

The whole point about the specialist that I'm trying to make was; he's a specialist, obviously. He's the man getting paid, I dunno, 80k+ a year, easy, to be able to give us definitive answers. He was unable to do this and was dismissive when pressed even slightly.

If I listen to him and get back in - which I have decided I will not do for at least another three months - then I believe it would be to my detriment.
His attitude was, as one poster above described, "I've got more important things to be doing".

Effectively I'm complaining about this type of attitude which, up until creating this thread, I was not aware existed in the public health service as a whole.
And no, I have not had much dealings with these people in the past.

And to repeat myself - when one is in a position of responsibility - responsibility to their clients to provide them with solid and meaningful information, and they come out with the wrong thing or misleading information that could be detrimental to the health of the client (as was the case with me), then it is not only a poor reflection on that professional, but on the general mentality that's acceptable within the health system.

As I said, my first dealing with this aspect of the health system, and being aware of it, I know I'll be alot more calculated should the need arise - touch wood - that I must seek the council of such professionals in future.

Cheap Thrills!

Listen, if a specialist has Mister or Professor before his name it's not at all unusual that they will be very economical with their words. Don't take it personally. If he said you're fine, you're fine.

They are mind bendingly busy from early morning until last thing at night and believe me they will NOT spoonfeed you. They will be short sweet and to the point.

Specialists see all kinds of people whose injuries/illness is in the main not self inflicted. Someone like yourself in their eyes has put themselves in the ring and at risk of injury voluntarily.

You mightn't like it but working in the medical profession is all about saving and enhancing lives. You would not be viewed as life or death and even if you were it's still unlikely the specialist would handhold you.

They are there to give their expert opinion and he is not one bit interested in your kickboxing career. That is something you do voluntarily. You say if you can't do your sport it would be a nightmare.

No, a nightmare is fighting for breath every moment/living with a debilitating disease/being the victim of a horrific RTA etc

The only way you can guarantee not getting hurt any more is to desist from the sport, it's a free will decision to do it. The Doctor doesn't have to like it.

steddyeddy

Well first of all im big into exercise myself and that doctors opinion wouldnt be good enough for me, bear in mind doctors know very little of sports sceince and the demands of sports on the body. I understand your coach wanting to border on cautious because as the above poster said the insurance premiums are huge for a contact sports club but there is a big discrepancy between 3 months and fine.

Unless he was a sports doctor i would be wary of him saying its fine, fine for everyday activities does not mean fine for sports many times after weights training i would be injured and several times i went to the doctor and was under the impression thhat they wanted to get me out of there because they didnt have a clue about weights related training, one doctor told me i dont know while another said your back couldnt be sore wieghts dont involve the lower back :S . I went to a sports doctor and got a much better opinion a ordinary doctor even a specilist wil have little idea about the demands of sports on the body.

steddyeddy

irishh_bob wrote: »

you obviously have had dealings with very few doctors , the doctor you dealt with is the norm ,a doctor ( in ireland ) is the snobbiest of all proffesions , the vast majority are full of thier own importance , a lot of this is because they are given far too much respect in this country
during a consultation , they expect you to sit quiet and simply go on your way when told to , public or private , makes no difference , they know best and everyone else ( didnt spend 6 yrs in school ) knows nothing

btw , a big problem with xray results is finding someone who knows how to read charts properley

your so right irish bob and the problem with arrogance in the medical profession is a lot of the time the doctor wont admit that he doesnt know!

LegacyUser

Everybody chill here.

The poster wants to know when it's "safe" to go back into the ring with his injury. Basically, it's not. The jaw mightn't break in the exact same spot, but it might break.

As for the recent pain in the jaw during the match, there may be a psychological element to this? It'd only be natural for the mind to run ahead. (?nocebo effect?)

A quick Google search (v reliable!?!) there confirmed the doctors' time prognosis, apparently the longest healing time is the leg, 24weeks.There's a few variables involved (if you're a smoker, have poor nuitrition, ect ect). Just look up a few medical textbooks if you're still dubious.

I'd be a bit insulted if I'd spent the bones (excuse the pun) of 20years studying to be an expert in my field only for some randomer to advise my patient that he knew better. Imagine if that doctor arrived into your trainer& started advising him on training techniques- how would your trainer take it?!

The Recliner

Too much medical speculation and ranting going on in this thread

OP seek a second opinion if you are not happy