Confronting national school teacher bully

LegacyUser

As much as I'd love to give more details into a situation I find myself in at the moment, I'm going to have to keep it general enough as I just feel totally helpless in confronting this.

At the time I was in national school (around 15 years ago) my teacher in 6th class was also the principal of the school. He has since been demoted after physically hitting and bullying a child (of around 10 years of age) and I'm crying just thinking about that even. The mother of the child brought a case against him, and that's all I know about that, except that his teaching hours were cut and yeah he was no longer allowed to remain as principal. But he is still teaching there.

It's a good long time since I was in national school and while I wasn't myself ever physically hit by him I was bullied emotionally by him. Another guy in my class was too, but it was a little worse for him than for me.
Still, I think most of us accept that what happens to us in childhood is extremely important, and while I had a terrific childhood in all other respects, this was something that has been eating away at me all these years.

I thought there was nothing I could ever do to get justice for myself, and anyway when I heard that the other child's mother had done something, I thought at least that much had happened to him and he had a sort of comeuppance. Why he was allowed to remain there, after hitting a child, I will never understand, but I thought, what could I do? What I read on google convinced me I would never get justice if I pursued it legally. Especially after all this time.

Anyway, this is all back up now as I met him in a local restaurant at the weekend and I confronted him. I wasn't going to say anything but he spoke to me first and I told him exactly what I thought of him. I was glad I did it, I'm only sorry I didn't do it any sooner. But I heard from my little brother that he called to my family home today and I don't know yet if it was the teacher or the wife as they were both in the restaurant, but they told my father what happened. I wasn't there when they called. He is ill and fairly old and they were bang out of order involving him. Worse again he is a proud man and is disgusted with me apparently for letting him down. I can deal with that, I'm used to him being like that, but I obviously hadn't told him what had happened as we don't want to worry him ever as he is ill and on his own since my mother passed away some years ago. I am raging that this **** came to my home like that and I live in another county and can't get back there until the weekend, so I'm trying to figure out a plan and how to deal with this.

Is there any way I can take this man to court for the bullying from years ago? Or what would you advise to teach him a lesson?
Any general advice would be really appreciated. I don't know anyone with a legal background and feel utterly powerless and this man is just getting away with all of this
Thanks for listening, appreciate any advice, or perspective even.

Esoteric_

When I was 5 and in a school near Malahide, I was hit a lot by a teacher there. so were many other kids and when parents complained, she intimidated them. She went so far as to assault my MOTHER when my mother complained about her physical abuse. So I know how you feel about it. I can still remember her giving me a wallop with rulers and slapping me across the head. Horrible memories.

That said, I think you need to let it go. It's been so long now that there is very little chance of you succeeding in any court case, especially because there was no physical abuse, just psychological bullying. That's pretty difficult to prove, especially after such a long time.

You confronted the teacher and it just ended up causing hassle for you. There's little else you can do except confront the teacher again, but what will that do? Confronting the teacher a second time won't make you feel better.

LegacyUser

I'm really sorry to hear you went through that Lynda, and your mother.

I actually did feel good that I had confronted him at the weekend, so it was worth it, and that was it for me, but him coming to my family home and involving my father isn't acceptable, especially when he is going through enough at the moment, and that is why I'm not letting it go.

Again, regards letting it go, well I obviously don't obsess about it, or anything like that, but something like that is always in the back of your mind, and is it really right to stand by , say nothing, while he continues teaching? At the end of the day, while he may have learned his lesson, I doubt it. A normal person wouldn't do what he did, and they surely would feel so ashamed that they would at least feel compelled to leave the school after something like that? But no, he is still there, and if he has the arrogance for that, he surely could still be bullying, though probably back to emotional bullying.

scentedcandle

I can understand how you feel OP.
I am female, aged 30.
I was bullied OUT of school, left at 15.
It began with one girl who had it in for me, who then turned half the class against me.
When I went to the principal (a fckng nun) she dismissed it as trivial but far from trivial it was. I went to others who shared her twisted view (all nuns aswell).
My parents were alcoholic, depressive personalities and often violent.
Involving them was not an option.
So its not surprising that I had 'victim' written all over me to get bullied in the first place.

I was wondering the corridors one day, avoiding class and the bullies when a teacher (not a nun) demanded to know what the hell I was doing walking around.
I said I didnt know which class I was meant to be in.
She caught me by the collar and SCREAMED insults at me, dragged me by the arm to the principals and found out where I was meant to be,
dragged me TO the class, opened the door and PUSHED me in to it.
I fell over. They all laughed.
I laughed too, FIGHTING the tears with all my strenght. I felt (and was) absolutely HUMILIATED. I cry over that sometimes and have flashbacks.
That is how I learned to act.
Laugh it off in case I get further humiliated. Make it seem trivial to MYSELF. A dysfunctional coping mechanism.

I lost out on an education because not so much the b*****s in my class as the teachers who refused to get involved.
I often consider seeking legal advice but I lack motivation and I suffer depression, although I am, on the outside a very attractive woman but I have been unemployed for the most part of my adult life (depression has destroyed my soul - I tend to live in the past and have made some terrible choices that I now fear even slight change).

I was angry to read that this man called to your home.
He has no right to do that.
You spoke to him in a public place, where he initiated contact, then he had the nerve to call to your family HOME, PRIVATE PROPERTY.
I think you should speak to a solicitor, seek advice.
Consultations are free. You could even see as many as you wanted to for varied opinion.
I haven't needed the services of a solicitor for anything but one that my partners family know, I spoke to briefly outside his office about making an appointment but, like everything else I dont do, I didnt do.

Factor in to account if you had any witness' to your harrassment and could you contact them if need be?
Do you recall other kids being targeted by him and could you contact those?
Can you show if the incident/s affected you in any phycological way?
Could you contact the mother of the child you mentioned for a chat, let her know you experienced the similar - she might be grateful for your input and even a valuable character witness to you.
I am delighted to hear she cared enough to take action.
I'd love if this woman went public and started a campaign for law reform.
Build a bit of a file if you decide to progress with anything.

I sometimes wonder if cases of school bullying years ago could be brought to the fore and perhaps result in a precedent being set.
(Im not sure if civil cases are based on no-win no-fee, this I must check out, one day.............).
But I am sure that there must be more than a few solicitors who suffered at school and would be willing to take on, who knows - mine, yours, someone elses case as a test.
I think this NEEDS to happen. Too many have been affected by school harrassment and try forgetting it as adults, but it's always there, ready to be remembered again at any given moment. Its an invisible scar for life.
The cases of clerical/institutional abuse were all a long time ago too.
I think the floodgates should be opened up on these educational system b******s who damage and fail us and our childeren and be made accountable for both their actions and inactions.

As for you dad - dont be upset if he's a bit annoyed, you say he's elderly
- the older generation are notorious for hiding their feelings, you say you didnt tell him that you were being harrassed by the principal
- you were protecting his old fasioned pride (your dads) and so you deserve to be able to say
'well, yeah, sorry about that, but how was I to know he'd take it upon himself to call HERE, shows you how much of an a*****e he really is!
I spoke my mind to him, not MY fault if he cant handle an ADULT standing
up to him. Oh and by the way, a childs mother got him demoted from his job for hitting her child in class. End of. Whats for tea? Whats on telly?'

Even this mans ACTIONS tell me he must be used to calling to peoples homes and all related to covering-up for his school behaviour, 'oh hello parent of child, lovely to see you, we had a spot of bother today with little mary and were wondering if you had noticed any odd behaviour in her lately?
Just to let you know, really, I'm sure she'll grow out of it'
and this would scare mary in to saying what???

Let us know what you decide to do.
And pm me if you like.

muboop1

Look, unfortunately, it is all hard to prove unless you can get a reliable witness. I was bullied by a teacher, I was fortunate that I told my parents early and they confronted him and took him through the legal lines etc.It isnt easy. But it is possible

What do you hope to achieve honestly? That is the most important Q imo. Pm me if you want to talk

LegacyUser

Guys I feel your pain.

I was also emotionally bullied in my primary school in Co. Clare by my 5th/ 6th class teacher, who was also the principal. This was back in the late '80s.

I was bright in school and the other (strict but fair) teachers had had nothing but praise for me. The principal's children were also bright but didn't get praised as much, so I think by the time I reached her class she had her mind made up about me.

My mum used to pop a Penguin bar as a treat into my lunchbox every day with my sandwiches as a treat, the teacher took issue with this and was always commenting on the "goodies" I had to eat.

There was no lunchroom in the rural school I went to and the principal and her children would have lunch together in her classroom. They used a desk that I shared with a boy who was also out of favour. When we would come back after lunch there would be milk and crumbs everywhere like as if pigs had eaten there. We would put our books on our laps until the desk was cleared by her daughter (there was no way even then that I was going to do it).

When I discovered I needed glasses, and began wearing them, I was moved to the back of the class.

My parents used to intervene on my behalf, but it would only make things worse for me at school. My granny died in 1989 when I was in sixth class and my mother wrote the teacher a letter to complain about the ill-treatment I was receiving, at a time when there was a bereavement in the family. I was called in to the classroom in private and given a dressing-down and had my mother's letter waved in my face. My father spoke to her directly several times.

I used to get bored in class and start drawing silly pictures on pages from my exercise books, she used to confiscate them from me when she caught me.

Towards the end of my time in primary school, about two months after my granny died, my mother got a letter from the Health board (I think) to say I had an appointment at the local health centre. We thought it was strange at the time as normally when I would be called for dentist or opticians exams I would be sent to a different health centre. So I had the day off school and I went along with my mother. The appointment turned out to be with a psychologist! The psychologist had a large envelope full to the brim with all the drawings the teacher had confiscated from me! She spoke to me and my mother and she felt I was pretty normal and that the teacher was exaggerating!

My parents were incensed that this had been arranged without their consent, and my father told me not to go back to school (there was only a week left) again. He confronted the teacher who just whined "You're all at me because I'm only (small local farmer's name)'s daughter." He then sought legal advice from a local solicitor but the solicitor thought it would be too much for me at 11/ 12 years of age to be dragged through the courts, so it was let lie.

Ok, so it was 21 years ago, but I believe it has been instrumental in me suffering from depression for most of my life since then.

I am almost 33 now, reasonably successful with a Master's degree, a good job and my own house but sometimes I think back on that time of my life and wish I had persauaded my father to proceed with the legal case.

The teacher is still alive, retired, in her 70s and still living in the neighbourhood of my parents. She's one of the holy joes (she even used to make us pray 7 times a day in school!) , in the church choir, ICA etc.

I too am wondering about redress, and have been for some time now.

Thanks for reading!

irishh_bob

bulliedinnationalschool wrote: »

I'm really sorry to hear you went through that Lynda, and your mother.

I actually did feel good that I had confronted him at the weekend, so it was worth it, and that was it for me, but him coming to my family home and involving my father isn't acceptable, especially when he is going through enough at the moment, and that is why I'm not letting it go.

Again, regards letting it go, well I obviously don't obsess about it, or anything like that, but something like that is always in the back of your mind, and is it really right to stand by , say nothing, while he continues teaching? At the end of the day, while he may have learned his lesson, I doubt it. A normal person wouldn't do what he did, and they surely would feel so ashamed that they would at least feel compelled to leave the school after something like that? But no, he is still there, and if he has the arrogance for that, he surely could still be bullying, though probably back to emotional bullying.

your ex teacher had some front showing up at your home to complain to your father about you having confronted him , once a pupil has left school , a teacher has absolutley no right to any special priveledges like making complaints to an ex students parents , i think your father is also out of order BTW for being annoyed with you , surely a parent would not side with a bully against thier own child , i suspect your father is old school and in his eyes , a teacher like a priest or a doctor is infallable and deserves unconditional respect at all times

as for taking legal action against this former teacher , im sorry to tell you but you havent a snowballs hope in hell of achieving anything , teachers ( like doctors ) are protected from any real consequence in this country by unions with too much power , some public servants in this country could be caught with a bunch of bodys in the boot of thier car and get off scott free

The Sweeper

bulliedinnationalschool wrote: »

But I heard from my little brother that he called to my family home today and I don't know yet if it was the teacher or the wife as they were both in the restaurant, but they told my father what happened. I wasn't there when they called.

Do you have a full and clear account of what happened when they called to your house?

I can see two reasons for something like that - either he wanted to complain to your father, or he was mortfied that you called him out and came to talk to you again to clear the air. It's possible, if your father is elderly, that he was simply horrified by the whole concept - I know my mother would have a tendency to see the teacher's side of the story and not register anything other than the fact I bawled someone out in a restaurant. (Oh! Was there anybody there who knew you?? What will they think?? - that sort of thing).

LegacyUser

The Sweeper: I'm still waiting to give my father a chance to calm down before I call him to ask him who called to the house and also, he's terrible at recounting any stories so I'll most likely just hear who exactly called- I've a feeling the wife may have, but my brother doesn't know. My little brother even stood up with me to my father and had to listen to him tell him how 've let him down. My little brother lost my mother when he was only 13 and I've basically stood in at that role, and I'm disgusted myself that my father would say those things to him. But yep... I have long learned to accept my father for that weakness he has - pride- as otherwise I wouldn't be able to turn a blind eye. I am also the one in the family who looks after him the most too and this is all he can do for me.

Irishbob- I suspect deep down you are right, I have little or no chance of getting justice. The sad thing is, even my sister said he did it to a guy in her class, she was a year behind me. One of the teacher's jokes was 'What do you call a fly in XXXXX brain?'- 'A space invader'. So, if people locally had the balls, we could group together and do something together about him. But I think with local pride etc. etc. who would stand with you on this? And how would you get the message out to the whole parish without everyone else not knowing? I don't want to be famous locally for this, so I fear I am alone if I tried going the legal route.

Muboop1- what do I want to achieve? I want to punish him for what he did to me, and others. I want to see justice. I want to see this stop being acceptable in Irish society.

To the others who have suffered, esp. scented candle, wow, what you went through there sc was scandalous, I can completely see how that has affected you and you certainly suffered far more than I did and if I was you, I would do something about confronting them. You are still young, only 30, and if you can, is there anything you'd like to study, that you didn't because of your childhood? Could you go back and do the LC and follow your dream career? Or even confront the teacher if they are still around? I did feel good after I confronted my teacher, despite it being nullified now since he came to my family home.

Well I am going to ring the Free legal advice line, just to get an idea of what one's rights are in this case- just in case there is something one can do.

If it becomes absolutely clear that I will get nowhere with this, he will be getting a visit from me, and my sister, to his family home. And his children will hear from me what their father is really like. That will teach him if I can do nothing else.

jurgenscarl

Stick to your guns.

Anytime you meet him tell him to his face how much of a bollix you think he is.

Don't ever back down if he confronts you.

Make your stand don't be afraid.

irishh_bob

jurgenscarl wrote: »

Stick to your guns.

Anytime you meet him tell him to his face how much of a bollix you think he is.

Don't ever back down if he confronts you.

Make your stand don't be afraid.

agree with this , make the bastard suffer , you,l get a whole lot more satisfaction than arranging for your solicitor to forward him letters , ask him whether or not it gave him pleasure to inflict long term emotional pain on vulnerable kids

tbh

bulliedinnationalschool wrote: »

Muboop1- what do I want to achieve? I want to punish him for what he did to me, and others. I want to see justice. I want to see this stop being acceptable in Irish society.

personally I think you need to let this go. Punishing him isn't going to make you feel any better, he'll still have done what he did. The best revenge is a life lived well, tbh. It's not acceptable in Irish society anymore - that's why he was demoted. All that matters is you OP, and you'll be happier if you can let it go. Look at what it's doing to you now.

LegacyUser

tbh wrote: »

personally I think you need to let this go. Punishing him isn't going to make you feel any better, he'll still have done what he did. The best revenge is a life lived well, tbh. It's not acceptable in Irish society anymore - that's why he was demoted. All that matters is you OP, and you'll be happier if you can let it go. Look at what it's doing to you now.

Appreciate that, but I do and always have lived my life well! Pursuing them and getting closure and doing something about it is actually a positive thing to do. I avoid negativity and this would be a negative thing if I did nothing..

I'm strong. I can deal with it, I just needed to get a plan in motion and clear my head before I go forward with it.

Thanks to EVERYONE for their help comments and contributions. Really appreciate it

tbh

bulliedinnationalschool wrote: »

Appreciate that, but I do and always have lived my life well! Pursuing them and getting closure and doing something about it is actually a positive thing to do. I avoid negativity and this would be a negative thing if I did nothing..

can totally respect that, best of luck with it.

irishh_bob

tbh wrote: »

personally I think you need to let this go. Punishing him isn't going to make you feel any better, he'll still have done what he did. The best revenge is a life lived well, tbh. It's not acceptable in Irish society anymore - that's why he was demoted. All that matters is you OP, and you'll be happier if you can let it go. Look at what it's doing to you now.

letting things go is overated

Denerick

irishh_bob wrote: »

letting things go is overated

Yeah, Jesus teaches forgiveness but forgiveness should be a two way street. I'm not a Christian by the way, but it does have some interesting concepts useful for surviving in this mad world.

Eve_Dublin

irishh_bob wrote: »

letting things go is overated

I´m making this my new motto. Too much "letting things go" in this world ....make a stand OP. I´ve heard some horrible stories from people about how they were treated at school by teachers and I´ve seen it happen first hand in my own school years, although not to the same extent. Never forget the time my teacher Sellotaped a boy to his chair in 1st class because he wouldn´t stop moving. The woman was/is obviously loola but she´s still in that school teaching away.

I think fair play to you for confronting him. Many would be too scared. He shouldn´t get away with this. If nothing comes of it, at least you tried and I´ve no doubt it´ll be cathartic for you and save the same thing happening again to other students.

Perhaps there´s more of you who are willing to come out with your stories if one of you took the lead? Have you anyone who will support you? Maybe try and get in touch with the other student he bullied in your class?