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"No - the government cannot be investigated" - Brian Lenihan

  • 05-07-2010 09:24PM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭


    Why am I not surprised! :rolleyes:

    Mr Lenihan has stated that the banking inquiry cannot go beyond a certain date and investigate the actions of the government in regards to the banks.
    I deeply suspect that they again don't want the full truth to come out.

    * http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100705/tuk-banking-inquiry-can-extend-remit-e1cd776.html
    * http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0705/banks.html
    Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has said there is no reason for a commission of inquiry to investigate the political handling of the financial crisis.
    Opposition members of the Finance Committee want the scope of the proposed commission of inquiry into the banking crisis to be extended beyond the night the bank guarantee was put in place to discover what the minister know about the solvency problems of Anglo Irish Bank, and when he and his officials knew it.

    Dear opposition,
    Please, when ye get elected re-open this investigation if it is closed by then or shut down by Fianna Fail and extend its remit to include the highly suspicious actions of many a head of Fianna Fail and their cronies.

    These lying schisters deserve to be exposed for the blatant disregard for the public and where they are shovelling our money!


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    extend its remit to include the highly suspicious actions of many a head of Fianna Fail and their cronies.


    Biggins, do we really need new tribunals?



    The last thing I want is when FF leave office is to listen for the next 10 years about how bad they were. Animal farm springs to mind.... Surely you don't want Farmer Jones back?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    I dont think a money pyre like a tribunal is going to work in this instance.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Biggins, do we really need new tribunals?

    The last thing I want is when FF leave office is to listen for the next 10 years about how bad they were. Animal farm springs to mind.... Surely you don't want Farmer Jones back?

    Nope, just an investigation team without their hands tied from the start by those that have a vested interest in all possible facts being not disclosed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Biggins wrote: »
    Nope, just an investigation team without their hands tied from the start by those that have a vested interest in all possible facts being not disclosed.

    who ya gonna call?



    seriously.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    who ya gonna call?



    seriously.

    Patrick Honohan for a start.

    Nate


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Biggins wrote: »
    Nope, just an investigation team without their hands tied from the start by those that have a vested interest in all possible facts being not disclosed.
    And will that be worth the money it will cost?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    who ya gonna call?
    seriously.

    The EU.

    /cue ghostbusters music


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    The EU.

    /cue ghostbusters music
    I will oblige.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    And will that be worth the money it will cost?

    How much would it cost for Honohan to extend the scope of his report by a few weeks and include Anglo?

    I'm sure it'd be worth it.

    Nate


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    How much would it cost for Honohan to extend the scope of his report by a few weeks and include Anglo?

    I'm sure it'd be worth it.

    Nate
    Well Biggins was advocating what very much sounds like a tribunal. FF heads wont be willing to play along, legal action will be required, the senior councils will be loving it.


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  • Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Although this is kind of shocking, im not shocked..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Patrick Honohan for a start.

    Nate

    Well said, do you think the powers that be will try to obstruct/hamstring him though?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Mr Lenihan has stated that the banking inquiry cannot go beyond a certain date and investigate the actions of the government in regards to the banks.

    It is not simply the issue of Prof Honohans Investigation that screams foul here but the dogged insistence by Minister Lenihan on the preservation of Secrecy around many of the events at and subsequent to the infamous Bankers Night.

    It has now become a Trademark of Irish Governance that secrecy in all matters be maintained.

    Take for example the Toll Road arrangements where another FF Minister,Dempsey, has refused to reveal how much of taxpayers money is being diverted into Toll Franchisee`s accounts in order to make up for the shortfall in traffic counts on the shiny new Toll Motorways.

    The Irish political establishment need to become a bit more comfortable with the concept of democracy rather than continually,as recently demonstrated by Alan Dukes,treating the public as fools.

    Fools many of us are,but as yet,most of us are not crooks....:)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    Well said, do you think the powers that be will try to obstruct/hamstring him though?

    They already have, by limiting the scope of his original report. They haven't extended the remit at all yet.

    Nate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    I don't understand what is to be gained by extending the timeframe for the commission, the banking report has already stated that there was not considered to be a solvency problem at the time of the guarantee.

    When it was discovered that Anglo was insolvent is irrelevant as it fell in the period after the guarantee was issued.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    Scarab80 wrote: »
    I don't understand what is to be gained by extending the timeframe for the commission, the banking report has already stated that there was not considered to be a solvency problem at the time of the guarantee.

    When it was discovered that Anglo was insolvent is irrelevant as it fell in the period after the guarantee was issued.

    It would seem that the guarantee was enabled on false information (ie that the banks were actually solvent) It would make sense to me to investigate why this turned out not to be the case and what information lead the minister to bring forth the guarantee.

    Nate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    It would seem that the guarantee was enabled on false information (ie that the banks were actually solvent) It would make sense to me to investigate why this turned out not to be the case and what information lead the minister to bring forth the guarantee.

    Nate

    That is all covered in the Honohan Banking Report.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    Scarab80 wrote: »
    That is all covered in the Honohan Banking Report.

    The Governments role with regard to the decision making for enabling the Guarantee is not within the report remit IIRC.

    Nate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    The Governments role with regard to the decision making for enabling the Guarantee is not within the report remit IIRC.

    Nate

    It sure is.
    5.33 Although inspectors did identify many of the key governance and procedural weaknesses in a qualitative way, the process-based regulatory model they were adhering to was not designed to provide a quantitative or graduated indication of the magnitude of the risks to solvency and the likelihood that they would materialise. Thus the weakest bank was given a relatively favourable assessment until close to the edge of the cliff, thereby helping to shape the incorrect assessment by many key policy makers at the time that the liquidity problems the bank was experiencing in late 2008 reflected worldwide market failures and not an underlying lack of solvency.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Biggins wrote: »
    Why am I not surprised! :rolleyes:

    Mr Lenihan has stated that the banking inquiry cannot go beyond a certain date and investigate the actions of the government in regards to the banks.
    I deeply suspect that they again don't want the full truth to come out.

    * http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100705/tuk-banking-inquiry-can-extend-remit-e1cd776.html
    * http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0705/banks.html



    Dear opposition,
    Please, when ye get elected re-open this investigation if it is closed by then or shut down by Fianna Fail and extend its remit to include the highly suspicious actions of many a head of Fianna Fail and their cronies.

    These lying schisters deserve to be exposed for the blatant disregard for the public and where they are shovelling our money!

    they were exposed , they were found guillty , they will be sentanced at next election , !


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    Scarab80 wrote: »
    It sure is.

    That excerpt does not cover the governments decision making process that lead to the guarantee. It states that the inspectors were, lets be very kind, ineffective when informing the government.

    We are still no clearer on how the decisions for the exact nature of the guarantee were arrived at, why it guaranteed some things and not others.

    Why would we not want to know this?

    Nate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Scarab80


    That excerpt does not cover the governments decision making process that lead to the guarantee. It states that the inspectors were, lets be very kind, ineffective when informing the government.

    We are still no clearer on how the decisions for the exact nature of the guarantee were arrived at, why it guaranteed some things and not others.

    Why would we not want to know this?

    Nate

    That is just one of the conclusions, everything else you are looking for is in the report. For all everybody gives out about the banking crisis, it would seem that when the report came out nobody read it.

    Why do you think extending the term beyond the guarantee date would answer any of these questions anyway. Clearly all of the relevant decisions were made before the guarantee, anything that was discovered after is irrelevant.

    If they were seeking to understand the decisions to set up NAMA and the terms of the recapitalisations of AIB and BOI I think it would be worthwhile but it all seems to be about the nationalisation of Anglo which was an unavoidable course of action following the guarantee.

    To me this is just Labour putting up another populist flag based on nothing other than their desire to be another soundbite opposing the banks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    Scarab80 wrote: »
    That is just one of the conclusions, everything else you are looking for is in the report. For all everybody gives out about the banking crisis, it would seem that when the report came out nobody read it.

    Why do you think extending the term beyond the guarantee date would answer any of these questions anyway. Clearly all of the relevant decisions were made before the guarantee, anything that was discovered after is irrelevant.

    If they were seeking to understand the decisions to set up NAMA and the terms of the recapitalisations of AIB and BOI I think it would be worthwhile but it all seems to be about the nationalisation of Anglo which was an unavoidable course of action following the guarantee.

    To me this is just Labour putting up another populist flag based on nothing other than their desire to be another soundbite opposing the banks.

    Reading it now, I stand corrected, I guess Endagate distracted some of us from more important things :(

    Nate


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Why not let the C.A.B. investigate>?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    Iceland has already completed their investigation with the appointment of Eva Joly, a Norwegian born French judge with an outstanding history investigating corruption by politicians and vested business interests.

    Her work investigating corruption is impressive, despite death threats, she has uncovered several cases of fraud and corruption.

    We have seen the results of the Tribunals arranged by the Irish Government, little truth, little accountability, few prosecutions and all of this done in a protracted and costly manner.

    To get to the truth, what is needed is someone like Joly who should set her own framework reference points and timeline.

    Perhaps with Shane Ross who knows his stuff, that is the only way anyone will ever be held to account.

    Otherwise it will be tribunal groundhog day

    We are going to pay in the region of 30Bn for Anglo alone, we are entitled to know why, and who is responsible


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    What about those who will deny access, interviews etc? Court days beckon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has said there is no reason for a commission of inquiry to investigate the political handling of the financial crisis.

    Well I'm sorry, Mr. Minister, but as a public representative, purportedly representing my best interests in a purportedly democratic state, there is every reason for such an investigation.

    I have been royally f*cked up by this financial crisis, I have to pay for this f*ck up ontop of my own personal financial crises whether I like it or not, and I bloody well want to know who f*cked me up, what part the Fianna Fáil government had to play in that, and whether or not as a result, the Fianna Fáil party is a viable ongoing organisation.

    Your government is already discredited, and to foist lame coverups at this stage only reinforces the belief that the entire Fianna Fáil organisation is a corrupt and subversive influence on decent, honest society in this country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭doctorwu


    The reason they will not allow an investigation into 28th of Sept, what was the best advice for guaranteeing Anglo, Permanent,.They Will not say who gave them this "best advice available". This is where the charge of "Finiacial Treason" lies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    To hear some people you would think FF messed stuff up on purpose....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 932 ✭✭✭paddyland


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    To hear some people you would think FF messed stuff up on purpose....

    Not on purpose, no. But messing up is a direct result of continuously questionable and corrupt actions. It would be great if one could be corrupt without consequences. Alas for Fianna Fáil, it doesn't work that way. So answers, please. Who messed up, and why?


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