Car Crash today

Mr. Manager

Ok details are a bit scarce but my friend hit the back of a lady in Ford Focus Cmax. She is a provisional driver atm and her insurance is ~ €1,300.

Apparently the damage is in excess of €3,500. The question is, should she take the hit on the insurance or try and settle it privately?

a_v525

Insurance is there for a reason. Theres no way her renewal will go pu to €3500 next year, might jump to €2000 or maybe €2500 at worst, but that still saves her a hell of alot more than forkin out €3500 AND her own €1300 insurance premium.

Alanstrainor

Insurance is there for a reason! Taking a hit of 3500 plus would be madness imo, i can't see her insurance rising by as much next year either.
Either way it's not really up to her.


EDIT: Beaten to it!

guil

has she got €3500 to spare, if so i'd try settly it privately but if there is that much damage she can prob expect a personal injury claim

a_v525

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Insurance is there for a reason! Taking a hit of 3500 plus would be madness imo, i can't see her insurance rising by as much next year either.
Either way it's not really up to her.


EDIT: Beaten to it!

Sorry lad

Great minds think alike,

or rather fools seldom differ.... :rolleyes:

Mr. Manager

guil wrote: »

has she got €3500 to spare, if so i'd try settly it privately but if there is that much damage she can prob expect a personal injury claim

She doesn't really have that kind of money to spare, no. Just wanted to double check with some folk from here. I said she was better off taking the hit on the insurance. She just told me that she got off the phone with the lady a few minutes ago and said she was fine and wouldn't pull any personal injury stuff out of the bag.

messymess

a_v525 wrote: »

Insurance is there for a reason. Theres no way her renewal will go pu to €3500 next year, might jump to €2000 or maybe €2500 at worst, but that still saves her a hell of alot more than forkin out €3500 AND her own €1300 insurance premium.

That approximation is based on the next, one, years renewal though. What are the likely decrements going to be over the next five? Hell, it might even increment if insurance companies continue to moan. I'd be willing to bet they recoup that loss though, if the driver claims.

If you compare that against the potential her premium has to fall in this drivers case. Will probably pass the test in the next year or two (with any luck ) at that stage another year or two will half that current premium.

I'm just throwing it out there as different opinion but it might even be cheaper to try to get the repair cost down and then take out a low interest loan out. Payments leaving the drivers account every month may just focus the mind a bit better too

Bonito

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Ok details are a bit scarce but my friend hit the back of a lady in Ford Focus Cmax. She is a provisional driver atm and her insurance is ~ €1,300.

Apparently the damage is in excess of €3,500. The question is, should she take the hit on the insurance or try and settle it privately?

Never mind, I get ya.

Barr

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Ok details are a bit scarce but my friend hit the back of a lady in Ford Focus Cmax. She is a provisional driver atm and her insurance is ~ €1,300.

Apparently the damage is in excess of €3,500. The question is, should she take the hit on the insurance or try and settle it privately?

Does your friend have a no claims bonus build up ?

djimi

a_v525 wrote: »

Insurance is there for a reason. Theres no way her renewal will go pu to €3500 next year, might jump to €2000 or maybe €2500 at worst, but that still saves her a hell of alot more than forkin out €3500 AND her own €1300 insurance premium.

Its not about next year tho; its about the next 3 or 4 years as she starts to build up a NCB again. I honestly regret not taking out a CU loan to pay for the claim I had a couple of years ago; in the long run it would have cost me a lot less than letting the insurance company cover it and having to start again with my NCB.

€3500 is more than I had to pay, but it would be worth sitting down and doing the sums, even talk to the insurance company and see if they can estimate how much it will cost her next year the following years. Im not saying dont go thru the insurance, as has been said its what they are there for and what you pay money for each year, but do consider the alternatives.

cazzycaz

I would find out exactly how much the repair will be and then decide. Before when i had an accident we took the damaged car to the garage on behalf of the person i hit and got it repaired for a lot less. If garages know its coming from your own pocket they intend to be more reasonable.

djimi

cazzycaz wrote: »

I would find out exactly how much the repair will be and then decide. Before when i had an accident we took the damaged car to the garage on behalf of the person i hit and got it repaired for a lot less. If garages know its coming from your own pocket they intend to be more reasonable.

I would have been more inclined to say if they know its coming from an insurance company their prices take a sudden jump... Maybe its because they prefer to use main dealers but I have found that the insurance company approved garages tend be expensive compared to a lot of other places.

Gazzydee

one question. . . . was she accompanied by a fully licensed driver because if she wanst she isnt insured

therefore she is in the wrong!! and she can be prosecuted, read the fine print when it comes to learners permits and the likes and that was one of the laws and rules that came in to effect when they brought that law in !

Eoin

Gazzydee wrote: »

one question. . . . was she accompanied by a fully licensed driver because if she wanst she isnt insured

therefore she is in the wrong!! and she can be prosecuted, read the fine print when it comes to learners permits and the likes and that was one of the laws and rules that came in to effect when they brought that law in !

No, that's not correct. Her insurance will still cover whoever she hit.

The Gardai might choose to prosecute, and her insurance company might try and recover damages (unlikely, I would imagine) - but she is insured.

djimi wrote: »

Its not about next year tho; its about the next 3 or 4 years as she starts to build up a NCB again. I honestly regret not taking out a CU loan to pay for the claim I had a couple of years ago; in the long run it would have cost me a lot less than letting the insurance company cover it and having to start again with my NCB.

Protecting your NCB for a few extra quid would probably have been the cheapest option. You might not be able to move companies for 4/5 years, but the premium doesn't go up because of it.

kirving

It's irrelevant whether or not she was driving alone, she is still insured.

Gazzydee

look it up my friend if she was on her own and only has a learners permit/provisional then she is not insured to be on the road!

it will more than likely have to come out of her own pocket

Eoin

Gazzydee wrote: »

look it up my friend if she was on her own and only has a learners permit/provisional then she is not insured to be on the road!

it will more than likely have to come out of her own pocket

Injured parties would still be covered.

djimi

eoin wrote: »

Protecting your NCB for a few extra quid would probably have been the cheapest option. You might not be able to move companies for 4/5 years, but the premium doesn't go up because of it.

I was 24 driving a Honda Civic; a lot of companies didnt even want to give me a proper quote let alone the option to protect my NCB!

The accident (which only amounted to €2500 claim) happened 4 years ago and when I was getting my car last year more than half the companies I rang wouldnt quote me on the basis that I didnt have 3 years NCB, not because of the car I was insuring. The cost of my policy went up the year after the accident and it took a couple of years to come down; I would have been paying a lot less had I not had a claim. Id have a full NCB this years rather than 3 years. In my opinion I would have been better of long term to take out a loan to cover the damage rather than letting the insurance take care of it, but thats just the way I feel about it. I can appreciate that the OP is talking about more money than I was dealing with.

cazzycaz

Thats a point isn't it illeagal for a learner driver to be on the road in the first place without a licenced driver......does the insurance count if she has broken the law by not adhering to this rule .

kirving

It's irrelevant whether or not she was driving alone, she is still insured.

djimi

Kevin Irving wrote: »

It's irrelevant whether or not she was driving alone, she is still insured.

Not necessarily. While its rare it will happen, a driver on a learners permit driving on their own is breaking the law and an insurance company could use it as grounds to void their insurance. Like I said its unlikely to happen but its not a chance Id ever like to take.

D-Generate

Gazzydee wrote: »

look it up my friend if she was on her own and only has a learners permit/provisional then she is not insured to be on the road!

it will more than likely have to come out of her own pocket

I worked in the insurance industry and yes she is still insured. Similarly you are still insured even if the car has no tax. The legal matters are for the Gardai to enforce, not the insurance companies.

D.Craftsman

I think it would be a good idea for her to contact her insurance company or broker for advice.They deal with this type of problem every day.Calm down & don't panic.Cars can clock up a lot of damage costs for replacement bumpers, brackets etc it does not have to have been a very bad bang.If there were no injuries relax.Some companies will pay the repair and let you repay them before next renewal to protect your record.If it only happened today take your time to seek advice.

Barr

Gazzydee wrote: »

look it up my friend if she was on her own and only has a learners permit/provisional then she is not insured to be on the road!

it will more than likely have to come out of her own pocket

Not true , her insurance company would still be RTA insurers and have to honour the third party claim.

PrimalTherapy

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

She just told me that she got off the phone with the lady a few minutes ago and said she was fine and wouldn't pull any personal injury stuff out of the bag.

But what if the lady wakes up next week with a genuine injury/ pain in her neck.Sometimes it takes a few days or even longer for a genuine soft tissue injury to 'show'. A verbal won't be much good then

Eoin

PrimalTherapy wrote: »

But what if the lady wakes up next week with a genuine injury/ pain in her neck.Sometimes it takes a few days or even longer for a genuine soft tissue injury to 'show'. A verbal won't be much good then

Isn't there something like a 2 year time frame to claim a personal injury?

PrimalTherapy

eoin wrote: »

Isn't there something like a 2 year time frame to claim a personal injury?

yes that is what i mean. The lady may feel fine now and may genuinely be unwell in a few days or even weeks. So a verbal 'I won't sue' will not be much good if she does.

Drake66

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

She doesn't really have that kind of money to spare, no. Just wanted to double check with some folk from here. I said she was better off taking the hit on the insurance. She just told me that she got off the phone with the lady a few minutes ago and said she was fine and wouldn't pull any personal injury stuff out of the bag.

To be honest the person may say that now but issues could easily arise down the line regarding personal injury. Considering the amount of damage quoted it would probably be best if your friend informed her insurance company right now and let them settle it.

Eoin

Yep, it just doesn't really make sense to settle this privately IMO. Even if she'll pretty much be locked in to her company for the next 5 years, I think it's the better option.

Drake66

Gazzydee wrote: »

one question. . . . was she accompanied by a fully licensed driver because if she wanst she isnt insured

therefore she is in the wrong!! and she can be prosecuted, read the fine print when it comes to learners permits and the likes and that was one of the laws and rules that came in to effect when they brought that law in !

Unless that is a specific term of the policy that is bogus.

furtzy

She is still obliged to report the accident to her insurance company reagrdless if she is claiming or not. This is essential to protect in case of future personal injury claims

nogoodnamesleft

Yes your friend is insured irregardless of whether of not she was accompanied by a fully licensed driver.

However I would hope that the Gardai persue and fine her and the RSA give her a few points for not driving in accordance with the limitations that she is ment to obide by when she got her learner permit. Driving is a privilage you can just decide yourself that you are fit to drive unaccompanied yourself while on a permit!

She can suggest to settle the matter privately with the other party. However it is the other partys decision on what route to take either insurance company route or privately. Its must have been a significant impact to have caused 3,500 worth of damage.

The other party has 2 years in which to claim person injury from the accident as defined by the Statute of limitations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Limitations_in_Ireland

Max Power1

Why does anyone still believe that unnacompanied learners are not insured?
DO A FORUM SEARCH PEOPLE! Its been discussed here enough. Ive had many dealings with the IIF in relation to this and can confirm that not only are the learners covered (once their policy does not specifically state otherwise) but the insurance company cannot claim back the payout made as the driver (whilst breaking the law) was not contravening the policy. Similar to driving without tax, while it is illegal, it has not effect on your insurance policy.

Do your research before posting unsubstatiated BS opinions you heard from micko and johno the taxi driver down the pub, PLEASE.

(sorry for the rant - it just really irks me how uninformed people are. amd the myth continues to perpetuate itself when it is posted as "fact" by clueless people)

PrimalTherapy

furtzy wrote: »

She is still obliged to report the accident to her insurance company reagrdless if she is claiming or not. This is essential to protect in case of future personal injury claims

Isn't one obliged to report an accident to the garda as well?

furtzy

PrimalTherapy wrote: »

Isn't one obliged to report an accident to the garda as well?

Not sure on that but informing your insurnace company is vital. Mate of mine, a courier, was involved in a smash in drogheda many years ago which wasn't his fault. Other driver paid for repairs etc so no insurnace companies involved but just under a couple of years later he got a solicitors letter from the other party claiming substantial personal injuries. It dragged on for about a year and got very nasty but eventually my mate got it sorted and the guy was exposed as a chancer. The insurance companies would not get involved as the incident wasn't reported to them.

BigEejit

I believe that the Gardai are to be called if there is an injury or if the RTA is blocking the road (or liquids/detritus are spread across the road) .... or of course if one of the parties involved starts being very threatening etc.

Max Power1

as above, if there is no injury the gardai are not obliged to be called.

(Although it is always useful to have an impartial report)

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Manager

Barr wrote: »

Does your friend have a no claims bonus build up ?

No, she has only been on the road since August of '09

Gazzydee wrote: »

one question. . . . was she accompanied by a fully licensed driver because if she wanst she isnt insured

therefore she is in the wrong!! and she can be prosecuted, read the fine print when it comes to learners permits and the likes and that was one of the laws and rules that came in to effect when they brought that law in !

Yes she was with a fully licensed driver. Not that it makes any odds

Barr

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

No, she has only been on the road since August of '09

With no bonus she has nothing to loose so let the insurance take care of it.

Mr. Manager

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

However I would hope that the Gardai persue and fine her and the RSA give her a few points...

Bit harsh IMO

Vertakill

cazzycaz wrote: »

I would find out exactly how much the repair will be and then decide. Before when i had an accident we took the damaged car to the garage on behalf of the person i hit and got it repaired for a lot less. If garages know its coming from your own pocket they intend to be more reasonable.

That's so true. I went around with a friend (who needed to get some damage repaired due to a knock) and each garage we talked to gave 2 different figures.

1 quote for an insurance job and 1 quote for a standard customer repair.

Never mention insurance to a garage and never take the other person's word for it when they quickly come back with an extortionate quote!

Barr wrote: »

With no bonus she has nothing to loose so let the insurance take care of it.

Definitely!
Since reading that she has 0 NCB, I can't believe this is still in question.

Yes, she may get extra loading onto her next premium.... but it'll equate to a lot less than 3500 euro.
People bang on about NCB this and NCB that and they're terrified of getting quoted without one... but what's the point in paying 1300 p/y if you're never going to use your insurance?

We all may as well get cheap-but-not-worth-a-sh1t insurance from XSDirect if none of us are ever going to claim.

johnos1984

She should claim off her insurance and not settle privately.

My reasons for saying this are as follows:

If the people in the other car develop injuries afterwards your insurance company will settle all of that (I've been told at the scene of a crash not to worry that nobody was hurt only for them to tell the insurance company different)
secondly if the car isn't repaired to a standard they are happy with they can come back complaining later.
Thirdly there is nothing to stop them hassling your for more money

For peace of mind I'd let the insurance company handle it......its what you pay them for really.

PrimalTherapy

Max Power1 wrote: »

as above, if there is no injury the gardai are not obliged to be called.

not sure about that

Max Power1

PrimalTherapy wrote: »

not sure about that

well read up on the ROTR and come back when you are then

seriously though. If there is no injury and no hazardous risk (eg fire/explosion) there is no requirement to call the gardai

PrimalTherapy

Max Power1 wrote: »

well read up on the ROTR and come back when you are then

seriously though. If there is no injury and no hazardous risk (eg fire/explosion) there is no requirement to call the gardai

i always thought that but a few months ago a friend got rear ended, no damage or hurt and i seem to racall reading all accidents should be reported to garda. i will try to find the link. the rotr is not legal advice;)
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/accidents-gardai-and-penalties/correct-behaviour-at-accident-scene/what-drivers-must-do.html
"If the accident damages only property and there is a Garda in the immediate vicinity you must report it to the Garda. If there is no Garda available you must provide this information to the owner or the person in charge of the property. If, for any reason, neither a Garda nor the owner is immediately available you must give all relevant information at a Garda station as soon a reasonable possible."

johnos1984

Max Power1 wrote: »

well read up on the ROTR and come back when you are then

seriously though. If there is no injury and no hazardous risk (eg fire/explosion) there is no requirement to call the gardai

and no damage to other peoples property other than those involved in the crash.

I still advise calling the Gardaí so that any agreement can be witnessed and also so that you can prove that doctors etc. were offered to the other party.

As said before 'injuries' honest or not can develop after the crash in which case I don't know if your insurance company would be sympathetic to you

Max Power1

PrimalTherapy wrote: »

i always thought that but a few months ago a friend got rear ended, no damage or hurt and i seem to racall reading all accidents should be reported to garda. i will try to find the link. the rotr is not legal advice;)

The ROTR may not be, however the relevant section of the RTA would concur. Perhaps if there are any AGS members they may confirm this as I cannot find a link.

All accidents should be reported as the testimony of a garda is always good to have as evidence in a 50:50 situation however there is no compulsion to report the incident to the gardai - save for the situations mentioned earlier

edit : heres the link - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0106.html#zza24y1961s106

djimi

Vertakill wrote: »

People bang on about NCB this and NCB that and they're terrified of getting quoted without one... but what's the point in paying 1300 p/y if you're never going to use your insurance?

We all may as well get cheap-but-not-worth-a-sh1t insurance from XSDirect if none of us are ever going to claim.

Losing your NCB bonus means more than just an increase in the price of your policy. It can severely hamper your ability to change insurance company; something that caused me no end of grief when I was changing cars last year. Obviously for the most part its best to use your insurance when the need arises as that is what they are there for, but if the amount is low enough and you can find a way to settle it without needing the insurance then it might be worth it in order to keep a clean insurance record and NCB. Thats the way I see it anyway.

Obviously in this case €3500 is probably a bit more than can be expected to be covered without needing the insurance.

Max Power1

PrimalTherapy wrote: »

i always thought that but a few months ago a friend got rear ended, no damage or hurt and i seem to racall reading all accidents should be reported to garda. i will try to find the link. the rotr is not legal advice
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/accidents-gardai-and-penalties/correct-behaviour-at-accident-scene/what-drivers-must-do.html
"If the accident damages only property and there is a Garda in the immediate vicinity you must report it to the Garda. If there is no Garda available you must provide this information to the owner or the person in charge of the property. If, for any reason, neither a Garda nor the owner is immediately available you must give all relevant information at a Garda station as soon a reasonable possible."

you said it yourself - the ROTR is not legal advice
read the section from the RTA that I quoted