The nature of fighting game forums etc.

Sisko

I'm the one that fought for this forum remember and I'm constantly pointing people to it and advertising it.

It does seem like an inevitability though that eventually our very own one would become a reality. There's a lot of limitations on boards.

Surprisingly a lot of new people are reluctant to register on boards and sf.ie , don't really understand it myself but I'm seeing it a lot.

Theres a lot of other headwrecking stuff too but I'm not even aloud talk about that cause I'm on boards...:rolleyes: But people have been annoyed at this in the background for awhile and I've generally been on the pro boards side of most of these background discussions. But I'm seeing where they're coming from.

And I do think its true that it'd really boost SF.ie itself. However the cost wasnt something I was considering , I was told there was a way of adding a forum in wordpress for free, I know you have to pay for vbulletin etc

Still to me I'm seeing our own forum as an inevitability

Orim

Sisko wrote: »

It does seem like an inevitability though that eventually our very own one would become a reality. There's a lot of limitations on boards.

Surprisingly a lot of new people are reluctant to register on boards and sf.ie , don't really understand it myself but I'm seeing it a lot.

Theres a lot of other headwrecking stuff too but I'm not even aloud talk about that cause I'm on boards...:rolleyes: But people have been annoyed at this in the background for awhile and I've generally been on the pro boards side of most of these background discussions. But I'm seeing where they're coming from.

You know I would really love to know what these limitations and problems are?
Also what are the benefits of a new forum?

I've asked these questions of every single person that brings up this topic and not one has ever given anything approaching a straight answer. (In person, in IRC and I think here as well)

You can't say you're not allowed to talk about something on Boards because the only all-emcompassing Boards rules are basically "Don't be a dick" and "Nothing Illegal".

The only reason I can see for a new forum is so that people can troll more and generally act the twat. It's fairly lax here as it is and any more relaxed on the rules and I for one would not want to be involved.

Doctor DooM

Never once have I said I wouldn't take feedback.

You can even make feedback thread if you like, in the forum (I'd rather not go to the feedback forum because a million people who're just there to stick there oar in will pop up).

Sisko

Orim wrote: »

You can't say you're not allowed to talk about something on Boards because the only all-emcompassing Boards rules are basically "Don't be a dick" and "Nothing Illegal".

The only reason I can see for a new forum is so that people can troll more and generally act the twat. It's fairly lax here as it is and any more relaxed on the rules and I for one would not want to be involved.

As much as I'd like to say something here I can't actually answer this because I'm on boards, don't think I'm joking. Cause trust me I can argue what I want to argue till the sun goes supernova and no I'm not trolling etc

Dreddybajs

Sisko wrote: »

As much as I'd like to say something here I can't actually answer this because I'm on boards, don't think I'm joking. Cause trust me I can argue what I want to argue till the sun goes supernova and no I'm not trolling etc

Oh cmon, this is just nonsense

Sisko

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Oh cmon, this is just nonsense

Arguing with a mod is against the rules on boards no?

Doctor DooM

Sisko wrote: »

Arguing with a mod is against the rules on boards no?

Arguing with a mod on thread.

Dreddybajs

Sisko wrote: »

Arguing with a mod is against the rules on boards no?

It's against the rules to argue with a mod decision in-thread and bring that thread off-topic, you're better off PMing them. If you have a big problem with the moderation you can always make a complaint about it; however I don't think there could be mods fairer than Doom around anyway.

Honestly, what do you want to argue? That your thread blatantly trolling and calling out another poster should be allowed? You think having an independant forum where you were allowed do that would somehow improve the community or make new people feel welcome?

K.O.Kiki

Sisko wrote: »

Arguing with a mod is against the rules on boards no?

Arguing with a mod about boards.ie rules would be, yes.

Arguing that Guile is an annoying POS to fight will incur the wrath of Doom -- but is technically OK*

I'm still trying to figure out how the Console Modding forum even EXISTS.

*Azza's got my back

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I'm still trying to figure out how the Console Modding forum even EXISTS.

Apparently there's perfectly legal modding discussion there (like turning an old x box into a media centre as opposed to using it to play games).

Placebo

i just think outside of boards regulation we would see a wide spread of flame wars and stricter mod actions leading to personal vendettas and to an extreme, maybe the collapse of the scene. Boards regulations keep people intact.
Theres too much over heard in setting up the new forum AND the people that wont register here and dont register on sf.ie wont register on the new forum either.

Ken B

So what you're saying is we can't troll neo kubrick.....:(





Ps: I love everybody....(including neo' and....yeah, why not? Hell, BIOMAT as well!!!)

Owwmykneecap

Here's an example, when chunkis asked some random off topic advice about something another forum on boards would have covered, he basically broke the rules.

He was new and it was allowed because mr.dr. doom is a nice mod. But it was made clear that it shouldn't happen again.

Fair enough, it's the rules.

But the thing is, we all know each other and i'd might rather ask you, who the best broadband provider/which pub has the hottest women/how to lance the boil on my scrotum etc, rather than a board i have no knowledge of or general interest in. Even if their advice might be better.


Another issue is the current setup of sf.ie. I think a lot of work has gone into it and the people behind it should be proud of it no doubt, but what is it's focus and function?
Is it primarily intended as a landing point for newcomers?
I can see how it's useful for that function, but I don't currently have much reason to visit it myself.
Most of what's on it is here on boards anyway.

I've linked to it in many places across the web but I couldn't say I'm a part of it, like i am with boards.ie/thisforum or neo empire.
I've always operated under the assumption it was eventually going to be the community hub.

/not negativity, constructive debating.

Sairus

There are only two reasons I think our own fighting game board would actually be useful:

Firstly, it may just be my circle of friends, but a large portion of the people I know hate Boards for one reason or another and refuse to use it. Some of these people actually frequent the chatroom, but never enter the boards.

Secondly, having our main forum being a sub section of a larger forum comes across as terribly amateur. That's not really the word I'm looking for, but, it's like it's making streetfighter.ie unnofficial or something.

To counter that there are obvious boons to staying with Boards - extensive rule structure in place, for the most part totally stable and reliable forums, loads of features, deliciously free, possibility of finding existing Boards members who play FGs, etc.

EDIT: Also, this

/not negativity, constructive debating.

A-Trak

Even as the forum exists here on boards, and despite the genuine open and welcoming vibe to all new posters, (You'd be a prime example of making an effort to welcome all new posters Conor,) I'd still say it may be slightly intimidating to new players posting here.

Not because there's a big negative buzz or anything, only because a huge amount of us have known each other for a good while now, not only on boards but in real life through tournies and beers too.

Boards, and the fighting games forums rules make it as easy as possible for new posters to get on board and start posting and involved in the scene.

If we were to open up a separate forum, it'd be far more intimidating, (As it'd pretty much initially everyone knows everyone,) and as Farz posted above, would inevitably turn into bickering and interweb arguing, and ultimately a dying forum.

Whilst I can see at times boards rules can be quite linear, in the long run the benefits of us having the fighting game forum here as the central discussion for Fighting games forum Ireland far outweigh any negatives.

A-Trak

Oh and lol at Farz being sensible as well.
(Is he reverse trollin?)

animaX

A-Trak wrote: »

Oh and lol at Farz being sensible as well.
(Is he reverse trollin?)

He's a changed man this past week or two

Orim

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Here's an example, when chunkis asked some random off topic advice about something another forum on boards would have covered, he basically broke the rules.

He was new and it was allowed because mr.dr. doom is a nice mod. But it was made clear that it shouldn't happen again.

Fair enough, it's the rules.

But the thing is, we all know each other and i'd might rather ask you, who the best broadband provider/which pub has the hottest women/how to lance the boil on my scrotum etc, rather than a board i have no knowledge of or general interest in. Even if their advice might be better.

This is the one area where that I could see working. But it just isn't enough to offset the downsides that A-Trak and Farz have talked about.

Also as you say you can get great advice on pretty much everything, from professionals if you venture out into the wide world that is boards.

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Another issue is the current setup of sf.ie. I think a lot of work has gone into it and the people behind it should be proud of it no doubt, but what is it's focus and function?
Is it primarily intended as a landing point for newcomers?
I can see how it's useful for that function, but I don't currently have much reason to visit it myself.
Most of what's on it is here on boards anyway.

I've linked to it in many places across the web but I couldn't say I'm a part of it, like i am with boards.ie/thisforum or neo empire.
I've always operated under the assumption it was eventually going to be the community hub.

/not negativity, constructive debating.

I would see SFIE as a landing point for new people and perhaps an area for those that don't want to register or get involved to have their say. The comments section allows people to talk without regging and has led to some interesting discussion. http://streetfighter.ie/?p=267

I don't believe that any genuine comment has ever not been approved so people can contact us there.

They can also ask to be set as a contributor so they can make posts and add their own content.

I spend a lot of time on SFIE as I'm always trying to come with new things to do on it but for everyone else I would see it as a not so regular thing. As you say once you're involved in the scene very little of what goes on the site will be new to you but there is some new stuff and, at the risk of sounding arrogant, I think some of the articles I've done have been damn good.

To cut off my rambling, it's an easy to link URL that shows people what we're about.

chris mcmahon

Ken B wrote: »

So what you're saying is we can't troll neo kubrick.....:(





Ps: I love everybody....(including neo' and....yeah, why not? Hell, BIOMAT as well!!!)

haha, but seriously, he deserves no love

Speed Boat

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

But the thing is, we all know each other and i'd might rather ask you, who the best broadband provider/which pub has the hottest women/how to lance the boil on my scrotum etc, rather than a board i have no knowledge of or general interest in. Even if their advice might be better.

With regards this point we could have a sticky off topic thread for all the "banter" and for stuff like that. I think some of the other more frequented forums on boards have these.

With regards this topic as a whole I can understand the train of thought and I was originally in agreement, but realistically boards is probably the best place for the forum. The only reason I used to think different was due to a general dislike of boards, but our forum is well moderated, interesting and good craic.

Sisko

Damn I don't remember making this thread

Dreddybajs wrote: »

If you have a big problem with the moderation you can always make a complaint about it; however I don't think there could be mods fairer than Doom around anyway.

Honestly, what do you want to argue? That your thread blatantly trolling and calling out another poster should be allowed?

How was my thread blatantly trolling? Can I not ask a guy if he plays fighting games on a fighting game forum? No it seems I can't.

I had no interesting in arguing with neokubrick , that's not want I wanted, I just wanted to know that the story is with the guy and actually have some discussion, instead of him vanishing off for another few months then reemerging to post yet again, giving off the impression that he reads this forum in great detail only to have any discussion locked the second I take part in it and him disapearing again.


There was some lighthearted discussion and unanswered questions I was looking forward to it continuing , was actually trying to calm things down and make thing more light hearted from what was after happening a few posts earlier , also wanted to chat a bit about no country for old men but yeah doom asked to keep the thread on topic , so I moved it to another thread only to have it locked with me being made out to be a cunt who just made a thread to personally insult someone. Anyone else made that thead it would have stayed , as there was nothing wrong with it.

Generally don't have much of an issue with dooms moderating at all, I've defended it even. Lately I feel liek I'm walking on thin ice with every post I make , theres been a few things discussed on here that have gotten mod warnings the second I get involved , but go ahead as long as I don't post and sometimes its unclear if I'm talking to doom , a person talking to me or 'Doctor DooM' a moderator warning me. So maybe yeah a little more clearity on that. But thats about it, its not a big problem for me , feels a little personal at times but generally not as big a problem for me as it is for others. Nothing that'd make me stop posting or feel like i should make a feckin feedback thread, that'd be horrible. I wouldnt do that to doom I like the guy. & I generally understand he's just doing his 'job' as a mod. Of which I don't envy.

---

Now that my points on that have been said:

Forum on streetfighter.ie

I really mean it as something that'ed complement this forum already , just something a little more casual that would result in daily discussions on sf.ie. My thinking is more onlong the lines of the community getting bigger and that a 'subforum' on a seperate website being our only forum is somewhat limiting compared to what other communitys have.

More room for detailed sticky threads on each character was something people were suggesting etc. A section for different fighting games and so on.

But I'm talking about the future here. I'm not saying we need to open a new forum now bla bla bla , thats insane. Was only last Saturday I was arguing in favour of this place.

But I am seeing it as something that will happen eventually.

I'm a fan of boards its a great tool and have used it as such for years.

There does seem to be a lot of hate for it though, I always thought of it as a massive postitive thing that I can say to people 'Our forums are on Boards.ie, I'm sure you know Boards.ie that big famous irish forum?' etc expecting everyone to think thats brilliant.

But I'm constantly surprised at the negative reactions I get from people when they heard its on boards.ie. Many are put off by boards.

I dunno why.

I had to badger farz for a few weeks to get posting on here, he was reluctant mainly cause it was boards.ie , I didnt understand the reluctantcy as I thought it would have been a positive thing since he already had an account and such.


I like speedboats , off topic banter thread idea , if there was a thread like that, I'd have moved that discussion there instead and maybe it wouldnt have been as big deal. A lot of us know eachother and want to make some posts to eachother with out the worry of being told to go to 'bla bla forum' else where on boards. Or come back to find their post moved etc.


But again I am starting to see that a sub forum on boards may not be big enough to host an entire community as it grows.

Orim

Speed Boat wrote: »

With regards this point we could have a sticky off topic thread for all the "banter" and for stuff like that. I think some of the other more frequented forums on boards have these.

With regards this topic as a whole I can understand the train of thought and I was originally in agreement, but realistically boards is probably the best place for the forum. The only reason I used to think different was due to a general dislike of boards, but our forum is well moderated, interesting and good craic.

I'd be against this myself. From my time on boards I have found that off-topic threads tend to kill off the forum aside from a small clique of posters chatting on the OT thread and the occasional specfic question that gets answers and leads to none of the awesome tangents we have in this forum.

A recent example would be the thread, I can't even remember what it was about but it led to Azza posting great information about air throws and command throws in SF4.

EDIT : As an aside, I know that I would spend a hell of a lot less time on a seperate forum. I would go for maybe half an hour, answer anything I could and scoot off. Whereas on Boards I'll spend all day here, returning to FG every half hour.

Doctor DooM

Right a coupe of things.

1) This is a feedback thread Sisko so say what you want here. All the posts in here are just ones I moved from the SF.ie thread as really they're about this forum.

2) I'm sorry man but you're seeing things about me that aren't there. I'm not hovering over the forum waiting for you to post. Whatever your intentions where for that thread the other day, when I saw it it already contained 3 or 4 posts just ripping the piss out of someone. It had become a troll thread and I had no choice but to say "NO".

Imagine if you were new and you came along and saw that? Would you post here? Without knowing everyone's prior relationships?

I've seen you engaging our- er- more unusual posters before and I have no doubt in my mind you were genuine.

3) Just to clarify in general:

Doom the mod talks like this

Doom the poster talks like this.

Unfortunately, sometimes I forget to bold the text, so I can see where the confusion arises. Must try harder Doom!

4) To clarify my position on off topicness.

On other forums I can be much stricter about it, but here the meandering produces some quality discussion so I allow the threads to breathe. However, sometimes someone new just asks a straight up question or something serious need discussing. In those cases, I will guide the thread back on topic and usually split the thread.

I'm not sure about an OTB thread. Someone tried it a few moons back and it died on it's arse. If someone throws one up I won't object.

5) It is actually kinda rare for me to say straight up "that cannot be discussed here". Seriously, go look at what the soccer forum has to do to stay alive compared to here. Personally I dislike doing it as my "job" here is to clean up the spam crap and encourage discussion, not restrict it. But you have to respect that, ultimately, occassionally I have to make a call. It might not be the call you'd make but someone has to do it.

Most mods will do this when a thread is "circling the drain" (when threads are just going over endlessly stuff that has been said over and over with neither side making any form of progress) or occasionally a thread will be locked just to let people calm down.

I hope this post isn't too boring.

Ken B

Sisko wrote: »

There was some lighthearted discussion and unanswered questions I was looking forward to it continuing , was actually trying to calm things down and make thing more light hearted from what was after happening a few posts earlier , also wanted to chat a bit about no country for old men but yeah doom asked to keep the thread on topic , so I moved it to another thread only to have it locked with me being made out to be a cunt who just made a thread to personally insult someone. Anyone else made that thead it would have stayed , as there was nothing wrong with it.



But I'm talking about the future here. I'm not saying we need to open a new forum now bla bla bla , thats insane. Was only last Saturday I was arguing in favour of this place.

But I am seeing it as something that will happen eventually.




I like speedboats , off topic banter thread idea , if there was a thread like that, I'd have moved that discussion there instead and maybe it wouldnt have been as big deal. A lot of us know eachother and want to make some posts to eachother with out the worry of being told to go to 'bla bla forum' else where on boards. Or come back to find their post moved etc.


But again I am starting to see that a sub forum on boards may not be big enough to host an entire community as it grows.

I agree with a lot of what Sisko is saying. I only joined boards to talk on the SF forum (on Bush's recommendation in SRK) and there may be, for all I know, a forum for 'No country for old men' or 'Barry Lyndon' out there, but I'm not looking for it and I'm definitely not posting on it. The reason for this is that I have little enough time as it is, keeping up with all you guys is tough, never mind some film student from Dun Laoighaire college or something, whose opinion I couldn't care less about...

The way I see it is: My main interest, certainly in regards to forums, is Street Fighter, but I'd be happy to discuss films, music, football, other games or whatever, with people who share my core interest. This will make us a commmunity of friends and will allow us to define each other as real people, not some cipher or video games character..

I have personal friends on this forum and would like to feel that this is another means of communicating with them, without having a sort of 'Sword of Damocles' censure hanging over every post I make(of which, some are nonsense, admittedly).

Doctor DooM

Ken B wrote: »

I have personal friends on this forum and would like to feel that this is another means of communicating with them, without having a sort of 'Sword of Damocles' censure hanging over every post I make(of which, some are nonsense, admittedly).

Exactly zero people have been banned from this forum for going off topic. The only time I stop people communicating as you put it is when I feel it is at the expense of someone else who is trying to get an answer/ something done, or they're breaching one of the rules I can't (or any other mod here for that matter) do anything about, such as directly insulting someone.

Ken B

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Exactly zero people have been banned from this forum for going off topic. The only time I stop people communicating as you put it is when I feel it is at the expense of someone else who is trying to get an answer/ something done, or they're breaching one of the rules I can't (or any other mod here for that matter) do anything about, such as directly insulting someone.

Hey Doom, don't get me wrong, I felt a little bad when I realised that I, along with a couple of others, seriously derailed Misty's thread, but he seems a sound guy and at least his thread wasn't being ignored.

Ps: I think referring to this forums as a means of 'communication' is valid point and not just some idiosyncrasy of my vernacular.

I mean we're all friends here and I guarantee(with the possible exception of the boards dogging forum)that we physically meet up more than 99% of the other posters on Boards.ie...

Doctor DooM

Ken B wrote: »

Ps: I think referring to this forums as a means of 'communication' is valid point and not just some idiosyncrasy of my vernacular.

In my head I had replaced communicating with having a laugh, which is generally what goes on here, see.

Placebo

in comparison,
I commented on some girl in Ladies Lounge,
'i dont care if this gets me banned but youre smoking, worth it'



I havent slept properly since.

NeoKubrick

Sisko wrote: »

How was my thread blatantly trolling? Can I not ask a guy if he plays fighting games on a fighting game forum? No it seems I can't.

You just answered your own question. I ignored the question and I would have ignored it again if that thread had stayed open, because it's a ridiculous question to ask. Of course, I do, but unfortunately, I don't live in Dublin, I'm not a hardcore competitive player and I do have a lot of other hobbies I'm more interested in, which would explain why I don't post often or have the opportunity or haven't attended at least one event (i.e. I'm a casual player).

I'm against censorship/moderation on forums (only applicable in extreme cases: deleting unsolicited ads, and content unlawful or against the ToS etc). I saw nothing wrong with your thread (A-Trak's image was hilarious) other than its ridiculous premise and question. However that wouldn't be the case with 95% of the posters here or elsewhere. Case in point: I took the piss out of Doom by writing a bit of dialogue with bad in-game references (hallmark of any game community) and a few in-jokes and he took it badly, which was never my intention. I thought the only insult in there was casting Placebo as Polish but he takes the piss more than I do and I'd knew he'd see the funny side of it, unless he was actually Polish (if that's the case, sorry, Placebo).

So, if you're looking to encourage casual players to post more, that thread was doing the opposite for 95% of people.

Out of curiousity, weren't you previously posting under the Cunny Funt account, because I remember, despite advocating and suggesting this forum and being a fanatical Fighting fan and from Dublin, Cunny Funt didn't want to attend the events and other people had to convince him to come along? ;P

Doctor DooM

NeoKubrick wrote: »

So, if you're looking to encourage casual players to post more, that thread was doing the opposite for 95% of people.

And that right there is why I closed it.

Sisko

Actually Neo the purpose of that thread was to try and have a laugh with you and get to know you a bit better. I'm glad you didn't have a problem with it. @ other people, I wanted to have dialogue with the guy, trolling him would have done the opposite of that. Cutting me off and calling me a troll pissed me off, if I was actually planning to troll why would I be angry about it?

@ Neo
Reason being is you seem to read our forum a lot , each of your posts give such an impression. You name names, appear clued in about in-jokes and what not. But at the same time you never post, when you do, its generally during heavy debates instead of light hearted banter or anything fighting game related.

This gives off an odd impression to people. Resulting in odd reactions at your attemps at humour. Any post you make with a reference to another poster, in-joke or something from the forum that indicates your very clued in, raises eye brows. Understandably.

You think my question is ridiculous? Why? I was/am genuinely unsure if you have super street fighter 4 and play it. You never talk about it, or put your tag down.

Theres plenty of casual people on here, plenty that post that have not been able to make it to an event. If you actually answered me I'd encourage you to play online with people , put your tag down etc so people get to know you better. Then maybe you'd feel like chatting to us outside of debates and what not.

If your reply was 'no I don't play' my reply would not have been 'then don't read our forums' I find it kinda amusing that someone not interested in fighting games would read our forums so much. It would mean that person would find us entertaining enough to read our banter/fighting game talk while having no interest in the game we discuss. I'd think that'd be gas. I would have probably asked what you find so entertaining out of genuine interest,and then tried to encourage more particpation from you and try to get you into the game or something.

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Out of curiousity, weren't you previously posting under the Cunny Funt account, because I remember, despite advocating and suggesting this forum and being a fanatical Fighting fan and from Dublin, Cunny Funt didn't want to attend the events and other people had to convince him to come along? ;P

Actually Neo I remember one of your very 1st posts to me quite well. Was back when I was franticly fighting for this very forum. You put it to me that I was wasting my time trying to get one, and that I should put my efforts to personally organsing tournaments instead.
My postion was always coming from the knowledge that I'd be utterly fucking useless at trying to run an event, especially having never attended one and even more so without a forum to organise it on. I knew that if we got the forum, this would give the people that DID have the skills in that area, the tools they'd need to get things done and get them done right and successfully.

I was right (nee ner nee ner neeeee ner:p)

When events got going, it was never the case of me not wanting to attend them , it was the case of me being too fecking hung over the next day and thinking 'ah sure I'll head to the next one' until eventually I decided not to drink the day before so I could make it in

@ Doom

Whatever your intentions where for that thread the other day, when I saw it it already contained 3 or 4 posts just ripping the piss out of someone. It had become a troll thread and I had no choice but to say "NO".

Imagine if you were new and you came along and saw that? Would you post here?

Which posts were ripping the piss? I don't see how you viewed it as a troll thread, did you think neokubrick was a new poster? He's been making hit and run posts on here since the birth of the forum

There was no malice intended with that thread at all as I've gone over (now that I'd had a chance to clarify that) Having it cut off like that before it blossemed into what I was hoping for , made it look like I was trying to be a prick to the guy, which sucked. But ironicly it seems now what would have happened as indicated by neokubrick, was that he'd have never replied, the thread would have gone on to talk abou no country for old men and that implied face palm pic and then eventually died off.

Instead we now actually have dialoge with the mysterious neokubrick , thanks to the drama thats unfolded :pac:

The question now is if he'll continue to chat, or disapear into the night. Only to reemerge next time theres drama a foot. :P

---

Regarding an off topic thread:

I see what orim and doom are saying there and agree generally, I wouldnt want ALL not specifc stuff moved into one thread, but at the same time sometimes our amusing off topic stuff will ruin someone elses thread.

So maybe a thread 'just' for those times amusing random BS is ruining someones thread , at least theres a thread for it to be moved to. Kinda thing.