Doping Education / Good Reads

austinbyrne21

I've just finished reading the Marco Pantani book, it's one hell of an eye-opening read.

I'm just looking for other books of this ilk to educate myself more about doping culture behind cycling and cycling in general. Any good recommendations?

Also, just a couple of items from this book caught my attention that someone out there might be able to shed some light on...

1. The author, something Rendell, somewhat hints at implicating Stephen Roche from when he was on the same team as Pantani. Has this ever been proved as fact or not?

2. With the whole doubt that surrounds LA, is it not just as simple to find in his blood samples that his "haemotricit" (totally spelled wrong but I'm a disaster for glancing over words I can't pronounce) and see if he's over the old limit of 50% or the newer limit? 48% I think.

I understand I might sound very naive about the whole situation but that's why I'm looking for advice on good books. I think Kimmage's will be next. And my second point above is in no way a defence of LA. I'm still amazed that he used to piss pass Pantani on the mountains while Marco himself doped to his eyeballs.

Oh, and Pantani... What a read! Fantastic and troubled character.

AstraMonti

Rough Ride - Paul Kimmage
From Lance to Landis - David Walsh
Bad Blood: The Secret Life of the Tour de France - Jeremy Whittle

RobFowl

austinbyrne21 wrote: »

1. The author, something Rendell, somewhat hints at implicating Stephen Roche from when he was on the same team as Pantani. Has this ever been proved as fact or not?

2. With the whole doubt that surrounds LA, is it not just as simple to find in his blood samples that his "haemotricit" (totally spelled wrong but I'm a disaster for glancing over words I can't pronounce) and see if he's over the old limit of 50% or the newer limit? 48% I think.

Roche never tested positive but an Italian court in a case against Dr Ferrari or Conconi (not sure which) declared that there was enough evidence to say that Roche was using EPO in his second spell at Carrera.
Roche vigously denies this.

The 50% haematocrit limit is still the same but it's less relevant now as there are tests for EPO (at the time the 50% was introduced there were no accurate tests for EPO).

austinbyrne21

RobFowl wrote: »

The 50% haematocrit limit is still the same but it's less relevant now as there are tests for EPO (at the time the 50% was introduced there were no accurate tests for EPO).

Just to clarifly... Nowadays, it's a far more detailed analysis when blood testing?

RobFowl

austinbyrne21 wrote: »

Just to clarifly... Nowadays, it's a far more detailed analysis when blood testing?

Yes the biological passport looks at trends and multiple different values in the blood profile. There is also an accurate urine test for EPO (although it's only able to detect EPO for about 2-3 days after taking and allegedly not accurate with small doses of EPO).

concussion

Robin Parisotto, one of the AIS scientists who developed the blood test for EPO wrote a very good book entitled 'Blood Sports'. It's well worth a read if you want more info on EPO use and detection.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Sports-Robin-Parisotto/dp/1740663667

penexpers

AstraMonti wrote: »

From Lance to Landis - David Walsh

I have thought about buying and reading this but I get the impression from some of the reviews that there's very little fact in the book and that it's mostly opinion mixed with some third party stories to back it up. Would this be accurate?

The reason I enjoyed the Pantani book a lot is that it was mostly based on facts.

Robotito

Just finished 'The Secret Race' by Tyler Hamilton & Daniel Coyle, it's a great read...just wondering what would be the next book people would recommend to read on this subject

spoke2cun

It's a shame, but it seems that any book about cycling over the last number of years seems to be more about doping than cycling itself.

Robotito

Robotito wrote: »

Just finished 'The Secret Race' by Tyler Hamilton & Daniel Coyle, it's a great read...just wondering what would be the next book people would recommend to read on this subject

+1

This is a good read

Harrybelafonte

Why not read some of the excellent biographies and autobiographies instead of concentratin in doping. There have been excellent releases in the last few years detailing the lives if Fausto Coppi, Eddiy Merckx, Laurent Fignon, etc

There's more to cycling than the TDF and doping. There's more to cycling than the last 25 years.

Planet X

Currently reading "A Clean Break: My Story", Christophe Bassons and Benoît Hopquin.
Festina days.......

magicbastarder

currently reading david millar's book. it's reasonably enjoyable.

happytramp

'Slaying the badger' is incredibly entertaining. Reads like a political thriller.

dastardly00

Has anyone ever had the chance to read L.A. Confidentiel: Les secrets de Lance Armstrong by Pierre Balester and David Walsh.

It would be interesting to read since it was the first book published to link Lance with doping.

furiousox

If only we had a dedicated cycling books discussion/review/recommendation thread....:D

Sinbad_NI

Robotito wrote: »

Just finished 'The Secret Race' by Tyler Hamilton & Daniel Coyle, it's a great read...just wondering what would be the next book people would recommend to read on this subject

I really enjoyed this one as well. Enlightening.

DKmac

Breaking the chain by Willy Voet
Game of Shadows by Mark Fainaru Wada
Rough Ride by Paul Kimmage
LA Confidentiel by David Walsh translated and available online
The Secret Race by Tyler Hamilton

kumate_champ07

this is worth listening to - Victor Conte interview

http://podbay.fm/show/360084272/e/1350596035?autostart=1



http://ec.libsyn.com/p/0/f/8/0f8cf668211baea0/p277.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06cb8f31d3c05e3229&c_id=5058989

right click 'save link as' for the above to download audio file

petethedrummer

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

this is worth listening to - Victor Conte interview

http://podbay.fm/show/360084272/e/1350596035?autostart=1



http://ec.libsyn.com/p/0/f/8/0f8cf668211baea0/p277.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06cb8f31d3c05e3229&c_id=5058989

right click 'save link as' for the above to download audio file

Never heard that before. Great link.

Koobcam

dastardly00 wrote: »

Has anyone ever had the chance to read L.A. Confidentiel: Les secrets de Lance Armstrong by Pierre Balester and David Walsh.

It would be interesting to read since it was the first book published to link Lance with doping.

Read a bit of it a couple of years back while the whole Armstrong thing was still working its way through the media. I also spent quite a bit of time reading the testimonies of the various riders to USADA, lots of interesting revelations there about doping practices. If you google 'usada reasoned decision armstrong', you'll find a whole bunch of stuff from people like the Andreus, Vandevelde, Hincapie, ete etc. I think Jesus Manzano is also worth a google as he was saying stuff about organised doping in Kelme as far back as 2004.

Another loosely-related article of interest would be this one from today's Guardian. I wonder if we might see teams harvesting the blood of their young neo-pros in order to get a few more years out of their ageing champions??

dastardly00

Koobcam wrote: »

Read a bit of it a couple of years back while the whole Armstrong thing was still working its way through the media. I also spent quite a bit of time reading the testimonies of the various riders to USADA, lots of interesting revelations there about doping practices. If you google 'usada reasoned decision armstrong', you'll find a whole bunch of stuff from people like the Andreus, Vandevelde, Hincapie, ete etc. I think Jesus Manzano is also worth a google as he was saying stuff about organised doping in Kelme as far back as 2004.

Yeah I've read pretty much all of USADA's Reasoned Decision so I suppose wouldn't be expecting to learn anything new from L.A. Confidentiel. It's more the thought process of the authors and how they were building the story around Armstrong that interests me.

Plastik

Bought Thomas Dekker's book, The Descent, yesterday and got through it in an evening. Quite short, only a little over 200 pages. It's ghost written fairly well and manages to convey how out of control he was in all aspects of his life. More or less straight into all the shenanigans you want to read about after a couple of chapters instead of an endless biographical monologue. Seemed to be a few sly barbs in there towards some of the modern riders, though maybe that was just my own reading of it rather than something that he deliberately tried to convey.

greenspurs

Are you more interseted in the doping than the cycling !???

A couple of fiction ones out there -

" Its not about the Bike " - Lance...
" Every Second Counts " - Lance...

and some "proper" ones also:
Hunger - King Kelly
Domestique - Charly Wegelius
The Secret Race - Tyler Hamilton

Plastik

Yep, the doping interests me more than the something like Kellys Hunger which from memory (and I'm struggling here because it was an instantly forgettable book) was endlessly boring. Kelly covers his two doping positives in about 3 pages and doesn't feel the need to address the subject anywhere else in the book. One of those books that you lend to someone and don't care if you ever get it back, which is what I did.

Tomorrow, We Ride, by Jean Bobet is a brilliant little read if you want to read a nice book about cycling.

magicbastarder

a lot of cycling biographies can be like kelly's - the childhood and early years tend to be the more interesting ones, and then you descend into chapter after chapter of 'that year i did well in race X and not in race Y, but the year after i did badly in race X and put in a good showing in race Y and the year after *that* i did well in them both...'

Macy0161

greenspurs wrote: »

and some "proper" ones also:
Hunger - King Kelly
Domestique - Charly Wegelius
The Secret Race - Tyler Hamilton

I enjoyed all three tbh. Sure David Walsh had already explained aways Kelly's positives in A Man For All Seasons...

Macy0161

Plastik wrote: »

Bought Thomas Dekker's book, The Descent, yesterday and got through it in an evening. Quite short, only a little over 200 pages. It's ghost written fairly well and manages to convey how out of control he was in all aspects of his life. More or less straight into all the shenanigans you want to read about after a couple of chapters instead of an endless biographical monologue. Seemed to be a few sly barbs in there towards some of the modern riders, though maybe that was just my own reading of it rather than something that he deliberately tried to convey.

Cycling news had a podcast interview with him in the last week or so. That, along with an apparent Kimmage recommendation, have it on the list.

Currently reading the Indurain biog, "Relentless" by Aladair Fotheringham. At the point Reynolds "invested" in a trip to Italy, but says they'll be more on that later...

dragratchet

A Dog in a Hat - Joe Parkin. racing and a bit of doping in belgium. great read.

magicbastarder

has anyone seen this? not specifically about cycling, though there are a few shots of cyclists used in the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXoRdSTrR-4

neris

magicbastarder wrote: »

has anyone seen this? not specifically about cycling, though there are a few shots of cyclists used in the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXoRdSTrR-4

Not seen it, on my to watch list on Netflix but it's very good reviews from what I've seen online

bazermc

magicbastarder wrote: »

has anyone seen this? not specifically about cycling, though there are a few shots of cyclists used in the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXoRdSTrR-4

Yes and it's fantastic. Well worth the watch.

loudymacloud

watched it the other day, very good viewing. well worth a watch.

dastardly00

Another +1 for Icarus

I've recently read Thomas Dekker's autobiography The Descent.
Plastik's comments below from earlier in the thread sum up my own thoughts.

Plastik wrote: »

Bought Thomas Dekker's book, The Descent, yesterday and got through it in an evening. Quite short, only a little over 200 pages. It's ghost written fairly well and manages to convey how out of control he was in all aspects of his life. More or less straight into all the shenanigans you want to read about after a couple of chapters instead of an endless biographical monologue. Seemed to be a few sly barbs in there towards some of the modern riders, though maybe that was just my own reading of it rather than something that he deliberately tried to convey.

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

Currently reading the Indurain biog, "Relentless" by Aladair Fotheringham. At the point Reynolds "invested" in a trip to Italy, but says they'll be more on that later...

There really wasn't anything on any doping or even dot joining. It was alright on his career and personality, but nothing really of interest to suggest or disprove any suspicions (probably due to his personality tbh). Well interesting to me who really got into cycling in the 90's anyway.

Currently reading "The End of the Road - The Festina Affair and the Tour that Almost Wrecked Cycling" also by Alasdair Fotheringham. Much better so far of the two.

Macy0161

Not sure which book thread to resurrect... but just going to go with a plug for The Ascent. It is brilliant, which I guess everyone would assume given it's getting sports books of the year shortlists! But it really is that good. Just so it's on topic, it does cover the positive tests/ allegations. Roche definitely rates himself and his influence on others anyway!

I though the "End of the Road" was good, and would recommend.

Also read Boardman's biography this year - more interesting for the way his obsession affected his family tbh.

Just started "The Rás: The Story of Ireland's Unique Bike Race" - I've had it for a while, but spurred on by the The Ascent and finding out more about the politics (hopefully).

transylman

Cycle of Lies by Juliet Macur was very good. Also enjoyed Secret Race by Tyler Hamilton.

In movies, the Armstrong Lie is an enjoyable summary of Armstrong.

For general discussion of doping in sports Victor Conte on Joe Rogan was very good (spoiler: pro sports is infested with dopers).

Sinbad_NI

Just read an older one. "Breaking the chain" by Willy Voet. Great read. Frightening what was going on back then... Probably best not knowing what they're at now :-(

Another vote as well for "the ascent". Great read.

Plastik

Another recommendation of The Ascent from me. I actually bought it for someone else as a present and they passed it back when read. I left it to one side for a while, and approached with a fair degree of cynicism in terms of "another cycling book". I've pretty much been at saturation point and balls of tripe like Kellys Hunger tipped me over the edge for a while.

But The Ascent is absolutely brilliant. I would highly recommend it to anyone looking for a good book on a broad overview of Irish professional cycling in the 80's, and it's the first book I've read that begins to deal with the dodgy history of Roche and Kelly.

pelevin

On the other side of the coin regarding books about doping, it's good to see how you can win the biggest races doing it clean. "Inside Team Sky" by David Walsh shows how Sky were able to dominate particularly the Tour de France with previously mediocre cyclists like Chris Froome, and they did this by not eating Nutella and using special pillow cases.

Macy0161

Plastik wrote: »

I've pretty much been at saturation point and balls of tripe like Kellys Hunger tipped me over the edge for a while.

I didn't think Hunger was too bad, bar the obvious ignorance of anything doping - I don't necessarily expect people to hang themselves. The only ones that ever have, have had nothing left to lose. The Ascent is a different class though.

loudymacloud

pelevin wrote: »

On the other side of the coin regarding books about doping, it's good to see how you can win the biggest races doing it clean. "Inside Team Sky" by David Walsh shows how Sky were able to dominate particularly the Tour de France with previously mediocre cyclists like Chris Froome, and they did this by not eating Nutella and using special pillow cases.

:-)

Exiled1

The Ascent is superb. It interweaves the main personalities on the bike, Kelly, Roche, P. McQuaid, Kimmage, Early with the politics of Irish cycling and the shenanigans of competitive cycling in the seventies-nineties era. Certainly doesn't seem to pull punches on anybody.
As sports books go, it is up there with the best I have read.
It may not have made international headlines because of its Irish focus. However, that does not prevent it from being a great read.
I have read all of the Irish short listed sports books for 2017 and it is better than any of them (including a good Philly McMahon autobiography).

Macy0161

Just finished the Shay Elliott book (Shay Elliott: The Life and Death of Ireland's First Yellow Jersey) - probably just scrapes in for a few drug references! Definitely interesting, as although I was aware he was good, I really didn't appreciate how good to be honest. So much un-luck.

Just to follow up from an earlier post, I did finish "The Rás: The Story of Ireland's Unique Bike Race". A bit like Shay Elliott, I was aware of issues, but while I wouldn't consider myself to have a bad knowledge of international racing history, I was fairly clueless about the history of the politics of Irish cycling until the Ascent.

Have "The Ronde" on order with the LBS (Local Book Shop this time). Just started Jeremy Whittles Ventoux, which will definitely qualify for this thread if it is to be restricted to doping!