Are wind turbines truly sustainable?

Slideshowbob

Has there been any studies done on this?

I gather all turbines built at the moment use fossil fuels to create the parts.

If fossil fuels deplete in coming years will wind turbines be as viable or viable at all?

Anyone got any links to research done on this?

It would make a good undergraduate thesis topic

Thanks

Macha

Using your logic, no existing energy-generating technology is sustainable.

Slideshowbob

so am i right or wrong!?

Bucklesman

They're more sustainable than energy generating technologies which uses a finite fuel supply and therefore among the most sustainable of the options available to us.

While a wind turbine might use steel made with an electric arc furnace powered by fossil fuels, that's a once-off carbon emission.

A new coal-fired power plant emits CO2 throughout its lifetime as well as when it's built.

Capt'n Midnight

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I gather all turbines built at the moment use fossil fuels to create the parts.

If fossil fuels deplete in coming years will wind turbines be as viable or viable at all?:rolleyes:

It's called pump priming :rolleyes:

Fossil fuels are used for most things because they are the most cost effective, it's that simple.

We can make fuel from air and water, it's just not cost effective at the moment. Anyway we can make plastics out of coal for hundreds of years, and we can also make them out of biological materials too.



You can argue until you are blue in the face about the purity of green energy, but it's a waste of breath when you consider that wind turbines are carbon neutral within months. It's a better to use more fossil fuel now to make more wind turbines as you'll save more fossil fuel fairly soon.


One of the reasons why the 40,000 windmills across the plains of Holland and Germany fell in to disuse was the cheaper cost of fossil fuel.

jacaranda

Its interesting to contemplate as wind turbines do have a life span.

My instinct is that the most effective way to contribute to a reduction ni greenhouse gases is to use less electricity and become more efficient. That means better insulated appliance like fridges and freezers, better insulated houses, and changing our motor cars for smaller and more efficient ones.

I suspect that if one looks at the amount of electricity generated per annum per wind turbine, and the cost of building, installing and maintaining the turbine, taken together with the unreliabilty of wind power, then they may not actually seem so attractive as some think they currently are .

djpbarry

jacaranda wrote: »

My instinct is that the most effective way to contribute to a reduction ni greenhouse gases is to use less electricity and become more efficient. That means better insulated appliance like fridges and freezers, better insulated houses, and changing our motor cars for smaller and more efficient ones.

I suspect that if one looks at the amount of electricity generated per annum per wind turbine, and the cost of building, installing and maintaining the turbine, taken together with the unreliabilty of wind power, then they may not actually seem so attractive as some think they currently are .

Fortunately, the planning process for new power generation facilities is generally based on a little more than instincts and suspicions.

saibhne

jacaranda wrote: »

I suspect that if one looks at the amount of electricity generated per annum per wind turbine, and the cost of building, installing and maintaining the turbine, taken together with the unreliabilty of wind power, then they may not actually seem so attractive as some think they currently are .

Mr Pehnt here would disagree with you. In this examination of the impacts of the life cycles of renewable energies compared to the established energy sources in Germany (oil/coal/gas) He states in his conclusion:
"From the LCA (Life Cycle Assessments) results it follows that for all renewable energy chains the inputs of finite energy resources and emissions of greenhouse gases are extremely low compared with the conventional system. The relevant environmental impacts of the renewable energy systems amount to a maximum of 20% of an expected future German mix for electricity, a maximum of 15% of the reference mix for heat, and a maximum of 55% of the future diesel car in the case of fuels. LCA results for renewable energy systems reveals that the use made of the material resources investigated (iron ore, bauxite) is less than or similar to that made by conventional systems with some exceptions."

I can't reprint anything here due to copyright but there is a nice chart in the study which shows wind energy having a very small greenhouse gas and finite resource impact in comparison with coventional energy sources.

Pehnt also goes on to examine the impact on production as renewable energy becomes more prevalent and predicts a further reduction in environmental impact as renewables contribute more energy to the mix. Basically a further improvement in environmental impact as wind energy contributes to the production of future wind turbines.

bonkey

jacaranda wrote: »

My instinct is that the most effective way to contribute to a reduction ni greenhouse gases is to use less electricity and become more efficient. That means better insulated appliance like fridges and freezers, better insulated houses, and changing our motor cars for smaller and more efficient ones.

Of course, its worth nothing that this is 100% compatible and combinable with an environmentally preferable way of generating the (less) electricity that we'd still need....so the most effective thing would be to do both, surely?

Capt'n Midnight

we live in the real world where during the boom times the increase in the number of SUV's bought per month cancelled out a wind farm
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/suv-gas-guzzling-is-cancelling-out-new-windfarms-84635.html

so any improvement over that is worth doing , later on we can become more efficient , but right now insulation of commercial buildings would be enough to stop the US needing any new nuclear powerstations


the problem with renewables is not energy generation, the problem is that we can't store the energy as efficiently as we;'d like

Capt'n Midnight

But if we really want to be green then how about this idea from the 1940's

THE BROTHER has it all worked out.
What?
The war. How we can get through the war here in the Free State. I mean the rationing and the brown bread and all that class of thing. The brother has a plan. Begob you'll be surprised when you hear it. A very high view was taken when it was explained in the digs the other night.
What is the nature of this plan?
It's like this. I'll tell you. We all go to bed for one week every month. Every single man, woman and child in the country. Cripples, drunks, policemen, watchmen - everybody. Nobody is allowed to be up. No newspapers, 'buses, pictures, or any other class of amusement allowed at all. And no matter who you are you must be stuck inside in the bed there. Readin' a book of course, if you like. But no getting up stakes.
That strikes me a curious solution to difficulties in this dynamic iron age.
D'ye see, when nobody is up, you save clothes, shoes, rubber, petrol, coal, turf, timber and everything we're short of. And food too, remember. Because tell me this - what makes you hungry? It's work that makes you hungry. Work and walking around and swallying pints and chawin' the rag at the street corner. Stop in bed an' all you'll ask for is an odd slice of bread. Or a slice of fried bread to make your hair curly, says you. If nobody's up, there's no need for anybody to do any work because everybody in the world does be workin' for everybody else.
I see. In a year therefore you would effect a saving of twenty-five per cent in the consumption of essential commodities.
Well now, I don't know about that, but you'd save a quarter of everything, and that would be enough to see us right.
But why get up after a week?
The bakers, man. The bakers would have to get up to bake more bread, an if wan is up, all has to be up. Do you know why? Because damn the bit of bread your men the bakers would make for you if the rest of us were in bed. Your men couldn't bear the idea of everybody else being in bed and them working away in the bakery. The brother says we have to make allowances for poor old human nature. That's what he called it. Poor old human nature. And begob he's not far wrong.
Very interesting. He would do well to communicate this plan to responsible Government department.
You're not far wrong there yourself. Bye-bye, here's me bus!

from Cruiskeen Lawn, in The Irish Times, during The Emergency. Available in Flann O'Brien's "The Best of Myles"

Mahatma coat

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But if we really want to be green then how about this idea from the 1940's
from Cruiskeen Lawn, in The Irish Times, during The Emergency. Available in Flann O'Brien's "The Best of Myles"

Ya know introducing the 'Siesta' inta Irish culture could have a similar effect,

Capt'n Midnight

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Ya know introducing the 'Siesta' inta Irish culture could have a similar effect,

ya mean like holy hour ?