THE LAND OF THE FREE AND EMERALD ISLE.

Erinfan

U.S is celebrating the 234th anniverssary of its independence with prayers,speeches,fireworks and formal readings of the declaration of independence.

And if the U.S owes its independence from Irish!.

We know that 9 of the 56 signers of the famous declaration were Irish .

Between 1/3 and 1/2 of General Washington army were Irish.

George Washington said, ``When our friendless standard was first unfurled for resistance, who were the strangers who first mustered around our staff? And when it reeled in fight, who more bravely sustained it than Erin's generous sons?''

Sir Henry Clinton wrote home to London that, ``the emigrants from Ireland are our most serious opponents.''

Overheal

the 234th anniverssary

Has it been 12 years already?

I remember getting an award in school for an essay I wrote about the war of independence and the fact that i wrote it in the 222nd year of the USA. Im gettins old /digress


Also worth mention though that in the Mexican-American War several Irish Turned coat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Battalion

theres also a video on youtube of the same name that like any good war history is told through song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4BGrNrkbMU

scallioneater

Overheal wrote: »

Also worth mention though that in the Mexican-American War several Irish Turned coat

They switched sides because of mal-treatment and discrimination by their American Officers. The positive side of it is that anytime I meet a Mexican they bring up that the Patricios died for Mexico and give me a big friendly smile. Yet another nation that gains pride from their Irish mercenaries. You could say that Ireland never lost a war because we always had people on both sides in every conflict. These stories always involve a huge waste of Irish lives to deliver the goals of foreign nations. I often wonder if we should celebrate such things. I personally feel that it is a tragedy that so many of my ancestors died fighting in these wars.

Denerick

I'm curious about how ethnic minorities in America feel about the 4th July celebrations, with all the pomp and such. Considering Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, I'd assume I wouldn't be particularly proud of the American Revolution, were I an African American.

On the other hand, I witnessed first hand the 4th July celebrations in California two years ago. Thought it was nice, clean fun. Me and a couple of mates drank cheap champagne in a brown paper bag on the side of a pedestrianised motorway. Felt we had to mix in somehow with the prevailing aura of American patriotism...

cheesehead

Denerick, while I don't have any studies outlining ethnic minorities views on July 4th celebrations, I can provide anecdotal evidence gathered over the past couple of days here in Wisconsin. (Always remembering, people like three-day summer holiday weekends and fireworks regardless of what's being celebrated!)

1) While swimming/boating on a lake located on Native American reservation land, several Native American boaters had American flags adorning their watercraft and they were also some of the more enthusiastic users of fireworks.

2) Upon returning home from the lake, I had to stop the car in the street as my El Salvadoran neighbor (and his extended family) cleared the street of a rather elaborate fireworks "lauchpad" and then enthusiastically invited us to join their celebration after parking our car.

3) After parking the car and walking back toward the El Salvadoran fireworks display, my Muslim Bangladeshi neighbor, his wife and child were beginning to set off their own fireworks display and asked us to join them as well.

I don't know any deep insights can be gleaned from these observations, but I imagine what I experienced isn't all that unusual regarding 4th of July celebrations here in the States.

PopeUrbanII

Erinfan wrote: »

U.S is celebrating the 234th anniverssary of its independence with prayers,speeches,fireworks and formal readings of the declaration of independence.

And if the U.S owes its independence from Irish!.

We know that 9 of the 56 signers of the famous declaration were Irish .

Between 1/3 and 1/2 of General Washington army were Irish.

George Washington said, ``When our friendless standard was first unfurled for resistance, who were the strangers who first mustered around our staff? And when it reeled in fight, who more bravely sustained it than Erin's generous sons?''

Sir Henry Clinton wrote home to London that, ``the emigrants from Ireland are our most serious opponents.''

Most Americans love the Irish and love Ireland. I know I do.

ynotdu

PopeUrbanII wrote: »

Most Americans love the Irish and love Ireland. I know I do.

What a nice thing to say Popeurban!

I see You managed to get into hot water within a few posts of You joining boards,I would not worry about it though,i came in guns blazing too and 15 months on still manage to land Myself in it on a regular basis:D

Thank You for saying that about Ireland!

who the fug

How many Irish and American troops where with Cornwallis

Denerick

PopeUrbanII wrote: »

Most Americans love the Irish and love Ireland. I know I do.

Even the Irish marxists?

ynotdu

Denerick wrote: »

Even the Irish marxists?

Naughty Denerick sure was'nt there a whispering campaign that Obama was of the Muslim faith because of his middle name?{not that this should matter but was a scare tactic due to the Looneys who blacken the name of a holy book by selective quotes from it to justify Murder,like is done to all the holy books of all creeds}These elections get vicious,is it any wonder So many end up with misconceptions about the Candidates!:)

Overheal

ynotdu wrote: »

Naughty Denerick sure was'nt there a whispering campaign that Obama was of the Muslim faith because of his middle name?

You should know better than to watch FOX & Friends :rolleyes:

Amerika

Back in 2008 I looked into buying the George Taylor House when the historical society proposed selling it to the town its located in. I drive by it all the time and at only $250,000 I thought it would be a great investment at the time. Who knows, maybe the next time they try and unload it I’ll get lucky.

Taylor’s kinda my hero. An indentured servant comes to the colonies from Ireland. Marries the widow of the ironworks business owner. Becomes rich and retires young. Has a hand in starting the greatest country to date. Who could ask for anything more?

They don't make them like they used to.

ynotdu

Overheal wrote: »

You should know better than to watch FOX & Friends :rolleyes:

Don't You dare roll Your eyes at Me Overheal!:mad:

I will let You know that FOXY News is My favourite source of Fiction Sir!

Overheal

ynotdu wrote: »

Don't You dare roll Your eyes at Me Overheal!:mad:

I will let You know that FOXY News is My favourite source of Fiction Sir!

You may not be aware but I bled and sweat for the right to roll my eyes at people.

Sadly the thread is unreadable now, all the rolleyes were replaced with a cyclops smiley at the time. That taught them to get rid of my smiley!

/digress.

lonestargirl

Denerick wrote: »

I'm curious about how ethnic minorities in America feel about the 4th July celebrations, with all the pomp and such. Considering Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, I'd assume I wouldn't be particularly proud of the American Revolution, were I an African American.

On the other hand, I witnessed first hand the 4th July celebrations in California two years ago. Thought it was nice, clean fun. Me and a couple of mates drank cheap champagne in a brown paper bag on the side of a pedestrianised motorway. Felt we had to mix in somehow with the prevailing aura of American patriotism...

The husband and I went to our local park to hear an orchestra and watch some fireworks. At one point we looked around and commented that we were the only white non-hispanics in our immediate area, kind of ironic seeing as we are the ones who are not citizens and will have to return to Ireland for at least 2-years when our visas expire. It was great to see families out enjoying themselves and even though there were people with bottles of wine and cans of beer everyone was well behaved.

Black Swan

Denerick wrote: »

I'm curious about how ethnic minorities in America feel about the 4th July celebrations, with all the pomp and such. Considering Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, I'd assume I wouldn't be particularly proud of the American Revolution, were I an African American.

Obama is president?

Denerick wrote: »

On the other hand, I witnessed first hand the 4th July celebrations in California two years ago. Thought it was nice, clean fun.

California is in the USA?

Killer Wench

Denerick wrote: »

I'm curious about how ethnic minorities in America feel about the 4th July celebrations, with all the pomp and such. Considering Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, I'd assume I wouldn't be particularly proud of the American Revolution, were I an African American.

On the other hand, I witnessed first hand the 4th July celebrations in California two years ago. Thought it was nice, clean fun. Me and a couple of mates drank cheap champagne in a brown paper bag on the side of a pedestrianised motorway. Felt we had to mix in somehow with the prevailing aura of American patriotism...

I will have to find the source but something that I remember hearing before is that the Revolutionary War was the only time that Whites and Blacks fought alongside each other prior to the intergration of the Armed Services.

But for additional historical information, please check out this NPR segment:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128273398

I have conflicting personal feelings regarding the American Revolution and the concept of freedom.

ynotdu

Overheal wrote: »

You may not be aware but I bled and sweat for the right to roll my eyes at people.

Sadly the thread is unreadable now, all the rolleyes were replaced with a cyclops smiley at the time. That taught them to get rid of my smiley!

/digress.

:D:D A major infringement of Your Human rights there overheal.

Boards should hang its head in shame!

Erinfan

I am neither American nor Irish my interest to the relationship between U.S independence and Ireland begun when I first heard and read the U.S national anthem. I was struck by the hate of British in the lyrics and I found myself turning my attention to Ireland it was in the ‘80s .

Somewhat it is quite strange and amazing that most of the Washington’s army is Irish.

Well I have done intensives researches on the subject and I have come to the conclusion that Cromwell successful campaigns to subdue Ireland have produce results far beyond his expectations. One of Cromwell’s legacies is the “lost of the America”.

The cruelty of the Cromwell’s army and administration led to the undercover massive exodus of Irish .This ,combined with the banishes, convicts and rascals sent to West Indies to serve as slaves there were overseas a sizable minority of persons who hate old things British at the time . Early Irish settlers in America fled English tyranny in the old world and were determined it would not follow them to the new. Its no surprise therefore, that when separation from England was first proposed, the Irish were its most enthusiastic supporters. When the issue finally came to rebellion that support became the backbone of Washington's army.

Is it coincidental if the first troubles began in Massassuchets then largely dominated by Irish.Youngters who threw rocks on the Redcoats in Boston were probably all from Irish ancestry, the incident that led to the so-called Boston massacre and subsequent events. When British forces left Boston to destroy the rebels at Lexington and Concord, their Major Pitcairn declared, "We will drive the Yankees and Irish to cover. "
Not only were there 147 Irish among the minutemen that Apr 19, but when the `Shot Heard Round the World' was fired and the smoke cleared , among the dead were 22 Irish who had routed Pitcairn's redcoats and given their lives in America's initial bid for independence. Those people were eager to rally behind America cause and settle their long disputes with Britain.
Irish were the most devout Patriots because Ireland was also a British colony—a situation which the Irish had resisted violently for years. Those who escaped Ireland in search of tolerance and opportunity in the New World were as ready to fight British rule in the Americas as in their homeland. Their opposition to the English primed them for the new American cause of independence.
.
In July, 1775, when the Continental Congress was in need of finances, a plea was sent to the people of Ireland seeking support for the Irish in America. Irish-born Oliver Pollock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Pollock personally raised over $300,000 to help finance the revolution, and ended up in debtor's prison for his efforts.
The largest ethnic group to sign the Declaration of Independence were those with Irish roots, Charles Dunlop of Co Tyrone printed the first copies, and the first man to read it before Congress was Charles Thomson of Derry – Secretary of the Continental Congress
With the revolution underway, the Irish swelled the ranks of Washington's rebel force in record numbers.
A letter from Ambrose Serle to the British Secretary of State went as far as to say, "Great numbers of Irish are in the rebel army", and recommended that they be prohibited from leaving Ireland [sic] because "they add strength to the rebel army." [resic] .

According to Major General Marquis de Chastellux, "On more than one occasion Congress owed their existence, and America possibly her preservation to the fidelity and firmness of the Irish." General Henry Lee's memoirs noted that the Pennsylvania line,"might have justly been called the Line of Ireland." Twenty generals in U.S Revolutionary Army were of Irish ancestry.
Ranked among Washington's most trusted officers were Irish-born Generals Wayne, Sullivan, Irving, Shee, Lewis, Butler, Montgomery were in the thick of the battle and Commodore John Barry considered by many the father of the United States Navy, was born in County Wexford –unforgettable Cromwell massacres took place in Co.Wexford. Washington's personal Secretary was Major Charles McHenry and his Irish Aides de Camp included Joseph Reed, Joseph Carey, Stephen Moylan, and John Fitzgerald indicating just how deep that trust was.
As officers and as soldiers, sailors, and marines, Irish immigrants added fire to the American Revolution, a fire that ignited a flame of liberty as had never before been seen.

After the war, Lord Mountjoy stated in the British Parliament, "America was lost through the action of her Irish immigrants."George Washington acknowledged America's debt to the Irish in a letter thanking them for the part they played in winning America's independence. He wrote to the Marquis de Lafayette that "the people of Ireland need that critical moment to shake off the badges of slavery they have so long worn."
Washington and the founding fathers continuously demonstrated their trust in America's adopted Irish sons and daughters. The first U.S President wrote of their pride in accepting membership in the Friendly Sons of St Patrick
Ireland gave America soldiers to win her freedom, and those soldiers left another legacy in true Irish fashion. Alan Lomax, renowned American collector of folk songs noted the presence of the Irish in Washington's continental army by the songs those soldiers sang. He wrote, "If soldier's folk songs were the only evidence, it would seem that the armies that fought in the early American wars were composed entirely of Irishmen."

Einhard

Amerika wrote: »

Has a hand in starting the greatest country to date. Who could ask for anything more?

Why exactly is America the greatest nation in the history of the world? Typical American arrogance. You might want to learn a little humility, especially as some of mankind's greatest breakthroughs were made in other nations before America was even constituted as an independent state.

Amerika

Einhard wrote: »

Typical American arrogance. You might want to learn a little humility...

Rather strange from someone who considers themselves "omnipotent."

Einhard

Amerika wrote: »

Rather strange from someone who considers themselves "omnipotent."

Not really. I happen to be infinitely powerful. That is a fact.

You believe America to be the greatest nation the world has ever seen. That is an opinion.

Therein lies the difference.








:pac:

Erinfan

More amazing is the spiritual links between America and Ireland.

The cross-pollination of American and Irish liberty is truly an historic phenomenon. Benjamin Franklin, a preeminent influence on the course of American democracy, visited Ireland during American Revolutionary period.

On the other side of the coin, individuals significant to the development of Irish liberty were much affected by what was happening in America. Daniel O'Connell, a nationalist hero and a true humanitarian, was influenced by American great pamphleteer, Thomas Paine. And the great parliamentarian, Charles Stewart Parnell, journeyed to America as a youth, a journey which may well have colored his political views of the world. And, of course, Eamon de Valera, Irish third President, was actually born in the United States.

fontanalis

Erinfan wrote: »

More amazing is the spiritual links between America and Ireland.

The cross-pollination of American and Irish liberty is truly an historic phenomenon. Benjamin Franklin, a preeminent influence on the course of American democracy, visited Ireland during American Revolutionary period.

On the other side of the coin, individuals significant to the development of Irish liberty were much affected by what was happening in America. Daniel O'Connell, a nationalist hero and a true humanitarian, was influenced by American great pamphleteer, Thomas Paine. And the great parliamentarian, Charles Stewart Parnell, journeyed to America as a youth, a journey which may well have colored his political views of the world. And, of course, Eamon de Valera, Irish third President, was actually born in the United States.

Jebus, spiritual links!
I'd love for Americans to show their appreciation to Ireland by not calling Saint Patricks Day "Saint Pattys day".