Race Etiquette??

Bugsy2000

Hi lads,

I would still call myself a novice to running. Well, to competitive running anyway, and recently whilst running a 10k I got to thinking was there certain No No's in racing. In particular tailgating or in other words slotting in behind another runner and using them as a pacer / windbreak.

On about the 5k mark in this race we turned into a strong headwind. There was one girl who was slogging into it with a line of 3 other racers directly behind her (me on the end) and sure enough after a while of it we all overtook her and I never saw her again during the race. It got me thinking was this just common sense and part of racing or is there any unwritten rule that says its just bad manners?

Any rules of the road I should know about when racing? Cheers.

Condo131

I hate it when someone else does it to me...as has happened on many an occassion..:mad::mad::mad:....not so much in recent years (slowing down :( )


Oth....I have been known to draft myself....especially behind arch rivals ..and, in particular, clubmates! :D

In longer races, I believe in sharing the load. Once did about 3 miles of a HM into a howling gale in a very open section. 5 of us took turns at taking the lead (of the group) until we got some shelter ....then it was 'dog eat dog'

Bugsy2000

Thats what I would have thought. Rotate the workload as if you were in a group on a bike.

devotional1993

Bugsy2000 wrote: »

Thats what I would have thought. Rotate the workload as if you were in a group on a bike.

it's not like biking atall just run eyeballs out-drafting isn't an issue and run your own race. Don't worry about anybody else etc.

shels4ever

Condo131 wrote: »

I hate it when someone else does it to me...as has happened on many an occassion..:mad::mad::mad:....not so much in recent years (slowing down :( )


Oth....I have been known to draft myself....especially behind arch rivals ..and, in particular, clubmates! :D

In longer races, I believe in sharing the load. Once did about 3 miles of a HM into a howling gale in a very open section. 5 of us took turns at taking the lead (of the group) until we got some shelter ....then it was 'dog eat dog'

I actually like it when people do that to me, its like a real race then, always did like running at the front of groups and don't have the abilityto stick in and follow someone ,hasbeen my problem in lots of races that once i get into a group i need to go to the front.

robinph

Drafting isn't as much of an issue in running as it would be on a bike, but I have had people running far too close behind me, and in a race when there was next to no wind, and they kept on clipping my ankles. This despite there being nobody else within 100m of us and having the whole road to ourselves. Happened about three times and I kept on moving position across the road, I was ready to brake into him if he'd done it another time but I think I started to drop him then.

Have had people cutting me up badly in XC races which then resulted in a bit of argy-bargy along the next straight section after I'd pushed them away from me on the previous corner. Four corners in a row, going opposite directions, they had come alongside me at each one and then suddenly taken the shortest route possible across me despite only actually being level. I either ran into the tree/ post, or gave them a shove. They didn't seem to like the shove option, but I preferred it to impaling myself on the course obstacles.

I tend to take a very wide line around corners though where possible so it would often be easy to pass me on the inside of a bend, it tends to actually work out better taking a longer route around rather than getting tripped and your stride broken if your in a group all trying to take the absolute shortest route. Take the straighter line, keep your stride easier and then pass the group on the next straight bit as they are all trying to find their rhythm again.

Krusty_Clown

I duck in behind a group (or individual) even when there's no wind, using the pack to slow my pace and take a break. I always end up pushing on though, so others have an opportunity of using me in a similar fashion (though rarely they do). There is no drafting in running races. It would be bad form to stay behind a pack for an entire race, and then scoot ahead across the finish line (but perfectly legitimate to do so). One of the advantages of not starting at the front of the field is that you can use the packs.

robinph

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

There is no drafting in running races.

Yep, it would mostly be pacing that you'd stick in behind someone alright. If someone then comes past you after hiding behind for a while it's more to do with that they were just slowing themselves down for a bit than you were giving them a major shelter from the wind, there is some benefit obviously, but you still need to keep your legs turning over as much as the guy infront. Drafting on a bike properly and they would almost stop pedalling.

dermCu

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

There is no drafting in running races.

That's not entirely true. Drafting does apply in running races but in practical terms it only applicable to the really fast guys.

Noakes quotes a number of studies that back this up:

"Davies found that when a runner was measured on a treadmill, facing winds of up to 18 km/hr had no effect on the oxygen cost of running. But the same conditions on the road will have a very marked effect. On the treadmill, the athlete does not move forward and thus does not expend energy overcoming wind resistance. However, an athlete who runs on the road into a wind of 18 km/hr faces an actual wind speed equal to that of his or her running speed plus that of the prevailing wind.

"The practical relevance of this is that on a calm day, anyone running slower than 18 km/hr (about a 2:21 marathon pace) will not benefit by drafting in the wake of other runners. However, runners stand to gain significantly by drafting at faster speeds or when running into winds that, when added to their running speeds, would make the actual wind speed greater than 18 km/hr."

To answer to OP. The rules are simple in my view. Be courteous but the is no rule that says you need equally share out any running into a strong wind. A race is a race, you can make gains by running smart even if others don't like it.

Krusty_Clown

dermCu wrote: »

That's not entirely true. Drafting does apply in running races but in practical terms it only applicable to the really fast guys.

I meant illegal drafting, as in bike races. There is definitely an advantage to slip-streaming, even in low wind conditions, but as you mentioned the benefit is largely only for the really fast guys, where the seconds and fractions of seconds are a factor.

shels4ever

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I meant illegal drafting, as in bike races. There is definitely an advantage to slip-streaming, even in low wind conditions, but as you mentioned the benefit is largely only for the really fast guys, where the seconds and fractions of seconds are a factor.

There is the whole psychological aspect too some runners seem to be bone for follow and kick and some to front run. I think that Cragg is a good example of someone that should never tuck in and follow.

I love to see people get to the front and hurt everyone.

robinph

shels4ever wrote: »

I love to see people get to the front and hurt everyone.

That's the Radcliff method of get to the front, and keep going faster until there is nobody left following.

shels4ever

robinph wrote: »

That's the Radcliff method of get to the front, and keep going faster until there is nobody left following.

or the John Ngugi style break them, let them catch you break them again and so on. His races were jsut great.

Sport101

Of course you should draft, especially in road races into head winds, its part of racing. Spot a big guy or a big group, scoot up behind them for the headwind section and save yourself a load of energy. Its a race after all and you are not racing with anyone, you are racing to beat them.

token56

I've never really consciously made efforts to draft behind anyone in races as far as I can remember. If someone is infront of me I only use it as encouragement to keep going and try catch them if I can, but I'd never stay in really close behind them. Once I get to a certain distance behind them I tend to make an extra push and either try go ahead or run along side them. That's if I am actually ever going faster than someone. I've also never really experienced it the other way around too. You will obviously have some people behind you at some stage, but it normally serves as encouragement for me to push on if they are very close to me, or else again I try move along side them. I think I'm just used to that from training in groups.

TFBubendorfer

There might not be much of a physical advantage drafting behind someone if the pace is under 18 kph, but there is definitely a psychological one.

The easiest race I've ever done was Cork-to-Cobh 2 years ago. I did not race all-out because the Dublin marathon would be 3 weeks later, so I joined a group of about 20 runners who were running at an effort that felt like jogging to me, and yet the pace was about 6:35, very close to my half-marathon pace. It was so easy that after 12 miles I lost patience and raced the last 3 miles after all, ending up with an average pace that was as fast as my pace for my half-marathon PB, despite feeling so much easier.

To get back to the original question, there isn't really a race etiquette. While some regard it as poor form to tuck in behind someone only to outsprint them at the end, others argue that it's a perfectly valid race tactic and you see it plenty of time at elites' races. As has been pointed out, you still have to do all the work even if you're right behind someone and it's up to the front runner to drop you if he/she want to beat you.

plodder

You can look at it as a little reward for catching up with someone. Take a breather, before pushing on again. Though, I've had people literally kicking my heels, they were so close behind. That's definitely bad form.

smunchkins

Well the one and only time I have been "used" in this way I was 50% annoyed and 50% surprised/chuffed anyone would actually slow down enough to tuck in behind me.
I should probably hasten to add it was coming down the Blackrock walkway in the Cork marathon, it was pouring wind and rain, there wasn't a soul in sight ahead of me, and I glanced round to find a group of 4-5 people huddled up in my wake. Quite a low point as I'd been battling really hard (and extremely slowly) in that weather without realising I was not alone.
But I did have a VERY weatherproof jacket, so perhaps it was fair

dermCu

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I meant illegal drafting.

Ah, ok. I see what you mean now.

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

There might not be much of a physical advantage drafting behind someone if the pace is under 18 kph, but there is definitely a psychological one.

Absolutely agree. It gives an element of control. I've always thought that this applies even more on the track. I know there is often a 'championship' mentality at play but even so the guy at the front always seems to be the hunted while the guy on his shoulder is the hunter.

robinph

I had someone on a push bike drafting behind me whilst I was out for a training run a few weeks ago, was a slight incline and I think they were struggling. I only vaguely noticed them behind me, but they did thank me once they went past at the top of the slight hill for protecting them from the wind.

Krusty_Clown

smunchkins wrote: »

Well the one and only time I have been "used" in this way I was 50% annoyed and 50% surprised/chuffed anyone would actually slow down enough to tuck in behind me.
I should probably hasten to add it was coming down the Blackrock walkway in the Cork marathon, it was pouring wind and rain, there wasn't a soul in sight ahead of me, and I glanced round to find a group of 4-5 people huddled up in my wake. Quite a low point as I'd been battling really hard (and extremely slowly) in that weather without realising I was not alone.
But I did have a VERY weatherproof jacket, so perhaps it was fair

I saw the same thing in Connemara in the marathon section of the race. A 6 foot tall athletic goddess wearing an outfit that didn't leave a huge amount to the imagination, with a trail of about 6 or 7 guys behind her. Strangely there was no wind at all. I pushed on past the group, but nobody followed?

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I saw the same thing in Connemara in the marathon section of the race. A 6 foot tall athletic goddess wearing an outfit that didn't leave a huge amount to the imagination, with a trail of about 6 or 7 guys behind her. Strangely there was no wind at all. I pushed on past the group, but nobody followed?

I guess you did not have what she had ...
And why did nobody point her out to me? :rolleyes:

Sport101

That's disgraceful carry on altogether.

smunchkins

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I saw the same thing in Connemara in the marathon section of the race. A 6 foot tall athletic goddess wearing an outfit that didn't leave a huge amount to the imagination, with a trail of about 6 or 7 guys behind her. Strangely there was no wind at all. I pushed on past the group, but nobody followed?

Ha-ha!
Well I'm very short and wide, and it was a luminous dayglow jacket , so on this occassion it was more the resemblance to a trundling school bus that got me followers than because there was any skin on show.