The Tudors

FlashGordon1969

I have to say I have enjoyed this series. I know its coming to an end and that it has historical inaccuracies but its still a great drama. Well acted by and large and has reignited my interest in that whole period,having studied it in school and College.

What do others think?

mr j tayto

+1, watched all of series 1 and 2,have'nt gotten round to 3 just yet.

Richard Dower

Show i never gave a chance to, maybe i'll pick it up at some stage.

Namabillion

Brilliant series. Shame its over soon. Hopefully their next show 'Camelot' will be as good.

iguana

Namabillion wrote: »

Brilliant series. Shame its over soon. Hopefully their next show 'Camelot' will be as good.

Camelot is Starz, Tudors was Showtime. Showtime's next series is The Borgias.

Namabillion

iguana wrote: »

Camelot is Starz, Tudors was Showtime. Showtime's next series is The Borgias.

I meant the fact that they have the same creator Michael Hirst.

JohnK

Yeah I really enjoyed it too; good acting and the sets were great.

The only thing that I didnt like was when it jumped a few years ahead and rather than saying "x years later" it just gave the actual year which while informative was feck all use if you didnt know what year it had previously been. A small gripe I know but still it was one of the things that bugged me each time it happened.

JohnK

iguana wrote: »

...Showtime's next series is The Borgias.

Just had a quick look online about that and it looks like it'll be good. Theres a recent video on youtube about it too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLou92CsEM

Basq

Picked up the first 2 seasons on DVD for under a tenner on TheHut a year ago..

.. like most of my DVD's, still in their plastic!

mikemac

I enjoyed it, worth watching. Cracking soundtracks too.
Owned Season 1,2 and 3 boxsets and watched season 4 online from some website

Realy, they could keep the series going if they wanted to, with James, Mary and onto Elizabeth.
Maybe it'll be done one day

FlashGordon1969

The major problem with the series is that by the 1540s Henry was a fat bastard who couldn't move about on his own. Myers presents Henry in reasonable shape and looks nowhere near his fifties as Henry was by "series four" You would think they would pad him up a bit more.

There are many more historical inaccuracies but drama is drama aint it?

iguana

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

There are many more historical inaccuracies but drama is drama aint it?

Except in the vast, vast majority of times the reality was more interesting than the changes they made. Changing things about to make a tighter story is understandable but to make it boring is weird.

FlashGordon1969

iguana wrote: »

Except in the vast, vast majority of times the reality was more interesting than the changes they made. Changing things about to make a tighter story is understandable but to make it boring is weird.

For example?

iguana

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

For example?

So, so much. Don't read down if you haven't seen all of the series or don't know the history as there are some minor 'spoilers' if you can count the events of hundreds of years ago as spoilers.

Thomas Howard for example. The way he turned against his niece Anne who he had manipulated into Henry's attentions and pushed her to pursue the crown. He saw her lose Henry's affections and was very largely responsible for the prosecution against her and George, his own sister's children. He was also very much opposed to her church reforms as he was a staunch Catholic which could have played some part in the viciousness of the charges against her. The show also ignored her attempts to save herself and be found innocent.

But after this his favour with Henry was still dubious, so when the Pilgrimage of Grace was ignited he was chosen to quell it and had to do so in spite of the fact that he was in agreement with their grievances. Because of this he knew in many ways he was being tested and his retributions were harsher than they might have been. Charles Brandon had very little to do with it and would not have been conflicted as he was an enthusiastic reformer.

After Anne of Cleves was put aside it was Howard how pushed Katherine Howard, again his niece in front of Henry. There is even speculation that he pushed her and Culpepper together as he knew her position would ever be insecure if she didn't have a son and Henry was long past capability. But again turned on her once she fell from grace and played a large part in ensuring her and Jane's (Parker George's widow) executions. After this he never regained his favour and when his son (the last season's Lord Surrey) was accused of treason he was too. Both were sentenced to death and his son was executed first but Thomas Howard's sentence was scheduled for the day on which Henry died and so his sentence was postponed and his life saved. He remained in the Tower until Mary's ascension where she overlooked the huge part he played in her mother's suffering and freed him as he was Catholic.

The whole Princess Mary/Margaret weirdness from season one meant they lost so many interesting stories. Margaret's time as Queen of Scotland, the problems within her marriage and the fact that when England and Scotland were at war it was uncle versus nephew. The way they treated Mary's (who they named Margaret on the show) story was baffling. She and Brandon had a number of children and their daughter Frances was named in the succession passing out Margaret's descendent in the House of Stuart. This eventually lead to the revolt which placed her daughter Jane Grey on the throne after Edward instead of Mary. The machinations that lead to this were already underway before Henry's death as there was at this point some plotting to marry Jane and Edward, despite Henry's insistence that Edward would marry Mary of Scotland, Margaret's grand-daughter.

Another obvious example was the portrayal of Catherine Willoughby (renamed Brooke in the series) Charles Brandon's 4th wife. She and Brandon were staunch reformers and she was close friends with Catherine Parr and great enemies with Bishop Gardiner, who she named her dog after and at court she would order Gardiner to sit and heel to everyone's amusement. After Charles' death Henry's eye fell to Catherine and he courted her greatly. Even after making amends with Catherine Parr he continued to court his best friend's widow, and if he had not died when he did would very likely have continued to pursue a way out of his 6th marriage to marry Willoughby. Instead on the show we got a simpering sourpuss who had no idea of the political situation who disappeared from the series to be replaced with Brandon's incredibly boring completely made-up French mistress.

FlashGordon1969

iguana wrote: »

So, so much. Don't read down if you haven't seen all of the series or don't know the history as there are some minor 'spoilers' if you can count the events of hundreds of years ago as spoilers.

Thomas Howard for example. The way he turned against his niece Anne who he had manipulated into Henry's attentions and pushed her to pursue the crown. He saw her lose Henry's affections and was very largely responsible for the prosecution against her and George, his own sister's children. He was also very much opposed to her church reforms as he was a staunch Catholic which could have played some part in the viciousness of the charges against her. The show also ignored her attempts to save herself and be found innocent.

But after this his favour with Henry was still dubious, so when the Pilgrimage of Grace was ignited he was chosen to quell it and had to do so in spite of the fact that he was in agreement with their grievances. Because of this he knew in many ways he was being tested and his retributions were harsher than they might have been. Charles Brandon had very little to do with it and would not have been conflicted as he was an enthusiastic reformer.

After Anne of Cleves was put aside it was Howard how pushed Katherine Howard, again his niece in front of Henry. There is even speculation that he pushed her and Culpepper together as he knew her position would ever be insecure if she didn't have a son and Henry was long past capability. But again turned on her once she fell from grace and played a large part in ensuring her and Jane's (Parker George's widow) executions. After this he never regained his favour and when his son (the last season's Lord Surrey) was accused of treason he was too. Both were sentenced to death and his son was executed first but Thomas Howard's sentence was scheduled for the day on which Henry died and so his sentence was postponed and his life saved. He remained in the Tower until Mary's ascension where she overlooked the huge part he played in her mother's suffering and freed him as he was Catholic.

The whole Princess Mary/Margaret weirdness from season one meant they lost so many interesting stories. Margaret's time as Queen of Scotland, the problems within her marriage and the fact that when England and Scotland were at war it was uncle versus nephew. The way they treated Mary's (who they named Margaret on the show) story was baffling. She and Brandon had a number of children and their daughter Frances was named in the succession passing out Margaret's descendent in the House of Stuart. This eventually lead to the revolt which placed her daughter Jane Grey on the throne after Edward instead of Mary. The machinations that lead to this were already underway before Henry's death as there was at this point some plotting to marry Jane and Edward, despite Henry's insistence that Edward would marry Mary of Scotland, Margaret's grand-daughter.

Another obvious example was the portrayal of Catherine Willoughby (renamed Brooke in the series) Charles Brandon's 4th wife. She and Brandon were staunch reformers and she was close friends with Catherine Parr and great enemies with Bishop Gardiner, who she named her dog after and at court she would order Gardiner to sit and heel to everyone's amusement. After Charles' death Henry's eye fell to Catherine and he courted her greatly. Even after making amends with Catherine Parr he continued to court his best friend's widow, and if he had not died when he did would very likely have continued to pursue a way out of his 6th marriage to marry Willoughby. Instead on the show we got a simpering sourpuss who had no idea of the political situation who disappeared from the series to be replaced with Brandon's incredibly boring completely made-up French mistress.

I actually have a copy of JJ Scarisbrick's Henry the eight in front of me. Interesting points you make though I think going into the Margaret Tudor storyline was prob too complicated as Myers is the sex symbol star and thus going North was prob too problematic. I agree with most of the rest of your points. Series is good if it ignites interest in that period or history itself.

FlashGordon1969

Watched it last night on RTE-Myers now speaks with a great cork accent which must be his attempt to speak as an old man!

irlirishkev

He's looking a lot older now too, but he still ain't no fatty!

Namabillion

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

Watched it last night on RTE-Myers now speaks with a great cork accent which must be his attempt to speak as an old man!

They could have made him a bit fatter too to be more like henry 8.
I'm pretty sure I saw this episode on TV3 last night.

FlashGordon1969

Namabillion wrote: »

They could have made him a bit fatter too to be more like henry 8.
I'm pretty sure I saw this episode on TV3 last night.

My apologies-TV3. Enjoyed the Series tremendously even with historical inaccuracies. Charles Brandon had no martial difficulties that were known of! (Earl Of Suffolk) Reading Wolf Hall at the Moment.

ziggy23

Anyone know where I can watch series 3 online?

ectoraige

I've been pretty indifferent to it all, but I must say that Myers' hoarse whispering is a woeful attempt at passing himself off as an ageing King Henry. I'm pretty sure I did the same thing on stage when I was playing an 80-year-old Cornelius Button in college; I may have added a limp, mind.

implausible

ectoraige wrote: »

but I must say that Myers' hoarse whispering is a woeful attempt at passing himself off as an ageing King Henry.

Whatever about the hoarseness, the undisguised Cork accent is ridiculous! Can he not do an English accent and whisper at the same time?! It's really distracting. Instead of getting into the storyline, I'm laughing at Myers and expecting him to call someone a langer any minute:rolleyes:

Sparkyd2002

haha i too found the Cork accent hilarious.Thought Myers had spent years trying to get rid of that. Reading Wolf Hall at the moment and despite its annoying reference to cromwell as "he" all the time it is an excellent read probably painting a far more realistic picture of Cromwell and his Prince. Still found the Tudors a fantastic drama though. Sumptious sets and costumes and probably the most elegant portrayal of those times. In one sense it portrays well a man who was seen as an almost dictatorial Monarch as a manipulated pawn of his advisors and confidants throughout his life who was in reality guided in all his actions by complex rivalling factions within his court.

cian1500ww

Fantastic show, sorry I only started watching it for the last season. Might try and pick up the previous seasons.