Jungian Psychology

steddyeddy

Hey a quick introduction, Im not a psychologist but a primatologist who could be going onto to do a post graduate course (not to work as a psychologist but because im interested in evolutionary psychology and would love to write some papers on it).

Anyway i was reading up on basic psychology (dont jump at me please im new to this stuff im just curious ) and became fascinated with Jungian psychology. Im just wondering how prevalent is it today because it seems to have some parallels with evolutionary psychology?

Cinful

Jung, psychology and evolution? Consider a more scientific focus? Review psycho-physiology literature?

steddyeddy

Cinful wrote: »

Jung, psychology and evolution? Consider a more scientific focus? Review psycho-physiology literature?

Im particularly interested in the collective unconscious theorys of jungs in connection with in built human intincts regarding certain animals.

Cinful

Suggest you also review the comparative literature in the journal: Ethology, Ecology & Evolution.
Link: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=t916668712~tab=summary

Also, less scholarly... Robert Ardrey's dated but interesting books African Genesis, Territorial Imperative, and the Social Contract

Lastly, Journal of Evolutionary Psychology for articles on Jung.

Odysseus

God I hated his stuff but if you are interested in it, there is a Irish Jungian Association. I don't have details but they should be easy to track down. IIRC the above association used to hold various training seminars in Milltown Colllege.

JuliusCaesar

Hi, I used to belong to an EP discussion forum and didn't think they had any interest in psychotherapy approaches! If anyone's interested, here's a good article by one of the leading lights in the field, David Buss.

steddyeddy

Thanks guys thats all very interesting indeed, i know it doesnt come down to simply jungian or freudian in psychology anymore but i did find a lot of jungs work relevant to my work in primatology.

hotspur

steddyeddy wrote: »

Thanks guys thats all very interesting indeed, i know it doesnt come down to simply jungian or freudian in psychology anymore but i did find a lot of jungs work relevant to my work in primatology.

Check out Totem and Taboo by Freud and read his fun theorising about the primal crime in human history whereby the sons of the alpha male father got together and killed him for sexual access to the females, then ate him in ceremony which is commemorated today in religions such as eating the body of the Father in Christianity.

It's fun anyway. And actually Totem and Taboo is one of the most enjoyable of Freud's books to read I think.

Odysseus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Thanks guys thats all very interesting indeed, i know it doesnt come down to simply jungian or freudian in psychology anymore but i did find a lot of jungs work relevant to my work in primatology.

As Horspur noted for Freud, Jung's work was distinctly different to Freud. If it's Freud your developing an interest in, I can keep you informed around Psychoanalytic events in Ireland.

Within psychology there is not a lot of time for either of the above, psychoanalysis can't be measured using the tools that modern psychology uses to evaulate treatments so there are few psychologists with an active interest in that area.

Odysseus

Sorry forgot to ask, what area of Freud are you interested in?

steddyeddy

I apreciate the links on freud but im more interested in jung and his work on the collective unconscious.

JuliusCaesar

Don't think there are any Jungians here.......have a look at the Introduce Yourself thread. Odysseus is Freudian, I'm CBT so well away from any analytic outlook.

What bits of Jung were useful in Primatology? I'm a bit gobsmacked by this!

hotspur

The English psychologist Paul Gilbert who is into CBT, evolutionary psychology, Jung, neuropsychology, and Buddhism talks about the relevance of Jung to evolutionary psychology in his wonderful book The Compassionate Mind:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Compassionate-Mind-Paul-Gilbert/dp/1849010986/

steddyeddy

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Don't think there are any Jungians here.......have a look at the Introduce Yourself thread. Odysseus is Freudian, I'm CBT so well away from any analytic outlook.

What bits of Jung were useful in Primatology? I'm a bit gobsmacked by this!

Well thats part of why i started the thread i know little about modern psychology and after reading a little about jung i was wondering how relevant he is to modern psycho analysis.

Well some evolutionary psychologists have connected the archetypes in jungs idea of the collective unconscious with innate fears in chimps and bonobos. A chimp for example will react with extreme fear to even a picture of a snake even though he may not have encountered one before, its been suggested that all chimps possess a collective unconscious and some experts have connected those fears with a primitive more raw version of jungs archetypes.

Moving away from fear a bonobo will often react very strangely to certain structures or landscape features. Bonobos on their own or in a group have been seen to display in front of waterfalls or even when the sun rises and when in a laboratory setting even basic black and white waterfall and sun drawings have ellicted a simular response. Even if they never seen a waterfall in the wild they will react to the drawing with a display. they seem to have a inbuilt reaction or idea about this shape.

I know little about jungian psychology and the archetypes and would love to know more about how the researchers are linking these two areas.

Freefaller

There is a Jungian Institute in Zurich you need a 2.1 to apply. They will not accept a Bachelors Degree, also you have to be over 26. It would enable you to become a Jungian Analyst. I find his work fascinating too.. my favorites are his work on the individualization process as life's main work. Also finding archetypes in the likes of Grimms fairytales (which you have to analyze for the likes of anima and animus arhetypes in the multiple exams along you're training) which can give you some brilliant dreams to interpret if you listen to them just before you sleep, like the Nixie in the Millpond. Freud had the luxury of great minds elaborating and working on his theories, whereas it has been said that Jung has great material worked on by second rate minds. (a bit harsh but maybe there is something to it)

JuliusCaesar

Thanks for that Hotspur. Paul Gilbert even has a book entitled Evolutionary theory and cognitive therapy.

Steddyeddy, I recently read a book by ethologist Marc Bekoff, The Emotional Lives of Animals. Is he rated at all? I found myself pulling back from some of his assertions.

steddyeddy

Thanks Julius ill look into pauls book on evolutionary theory and thanks for the link hotspur that looks interesting even to a layman. As regards marc beckoff I havent read the book unfortunately but considering my area of interest i should! Could you let me know some of his out there ideas as i heard someone mention them before (not in a posistive way). A good book to read about evolutionary psychology is the naked ape by desmond morris.

hotspur

steddyeddy wrote: »

A good book to read about evolutionary psychology is the naked ape by desmond morris.

Desmond Morris is who got me interested in psychology when I read his book Man Watching when I was 11.

Odysseus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well thats part of why i started the thread i know little about modern psychology and after reading a little about jung i was wondering how relevant he is to modern psycho analysis.

I can't really tell you much about Jung's work, but most of Jung's material would not be relavent to psychoanalysis, after the split between Jung and Freud, Jung's understanding of the unsconscious was totally different.

Jung's therapy is called analytic psychology rather than psychoanalysis, the spilt between the two of them was a severe one, as Jung being Swiss and not being Jewish was Freud's prince in waiting if you will.

Just to anwer your question his work would be only relavant to Analytic Psychology, for psychoanalysis it depends on the school, but Freud of course, then Lacan would be one of the biggest names out there.

There is a facility to train in analytic psychology in Ireland IIRC, so there is that option there if you wish to follow your study on.

Odysseus

Just more on the above Steddyeddy, I was just talking to a girl who works in one of our clinics. She is due to start a Dip in Jungian Psychology in All Hallows, so that may be of interest to you.

steddyeddy

thanks so much man the more i look into it the more i can see a connection with evolutionary psychology and a explanation for many of our own myths

Odysseus

You could try this reference I came across Stevens, A & Price, J Evolutionary Psychiatry. I Just came across it in an psychoanalytic text on criminality, which made reference to Jung. I know Stevens is a Jungian, but I don't know anything else about it.

steddyeddy

Odysseus wrote: »

You could try this reference I came across Stevens, A & Price, J Evolutionary Psychiatry. I Just came across it in an psychoanalytic text on criminality, which made reference to Jung. I know Stevens is a Jungian, but I don't know anything else about it.

I read it man thanks i have to say i disagree with many of his conclusions, i think for a evolutionary psychologist he places to much emphasis on culture as explanation for many of our base instincts which are also found in many other primates sans culture.

Odysseus

steddyeddy wrote: »

I read it man thanks i have to say i disagree with many of his conclusions, i think for a evolutionary psychologist he places to much emphasis on culture as explanation for many of our base instincts which are also found in many other primates sans culture.

Interesting to know cheers, but as you know I know little about Jung, it was just that there was a chapter on his perspective in a book I am currently working through and that author was metioned. Anyway best of luck with your research on the topic.

JuliusCaesar

steddyeddy wrote: »

A good book to read about evolutionary psychology is the naked ape by desmond morris.

I think David Buss is the originator and expert on evol psych - I used to be part of a very busy discussion forum on evol psych which was hugely interesting. I had to leave because it was too busy for me and distracting me from my real work. Can't find it now...

Odysseus

I just did a quick search according to wiki the term evoluntionary psychology was coined by a Michael Ghiselin in 1973. Did Jung not use this term? I know I shouldn't be trusting wikki, before any tells me that.

JuliusCaesar

Never heard of him so did a google and it seems he's a biologist.

I don't think Buss invented the term, but I think he developed the whole eh, model.

His most important contribution to the field was a study that sought to find empirical evidence for the existence of evolutionary psychological mechanisms.

Through numerous journal articles and books written for the public, Buss has publicized the mechanisms underlying evolutionary psychology.

- accoding to here.

steddyeddy

Yes i think the term was mentioned before that, but he did indeed provide the basic framework for the study itself. I find jungs idea of a colective unconscious very interesting as he stated it contains relicts of our past, that theory could be refined to include evolutionary ideas.

jesse.j

Freefaller wrote: »

There is a Jungian Institute in Zurich you need a 2.1 to apply. They will not accept a Bachelors Degree, also you have to be over 26. It would enable you to become a Jungian Analyst. I find his work fascinating too.. my favorites are his work on the individualization process as life's main work. Also finding archetypes in the likes of Grimms fairytales (which you have to analyze for the likes of anima and animus arhetypes in the multiple exams along you're training) which can give you some brilliant dreams to interpret if you listen to them just before you sleep, like the Nixie in the Millpond. Freud had the luxury of great minds elaborating and working on his theories, whereas it has been said that Jung has great material worked on by second rate minds. (a bit harsh but maybe there is something to it)

There is a 'Philemon' .org I think, who are compiling unpublished material by Jung, including a Red Book (never published) Jung had conversations with Philamon - his spirit guide or guru. I don't think Jung appealed to the strictly scientific minded.