Lesnars mental game

supremenovice

Anyone else think the biggest weakness that Brock has is his mental game? I think the fact that he has won the Championship so soon in his career has not helped him mentally.
He has shown vulnerability on the big occasion in his pro-wrestling career (albeit its not a sport) and his MMA career (the childish rant after beating Mir & showed a lot of nerves early on against Couture. Not to mention his UFC debut).
I think the more seasoned Carwin could possibly out-psych Lesnar come Saturday night and possibly in the power dept too..

cardio,shoot me

id disagree, For one, lesnar showed nerves coming in because he was fighting two of the biggest names in the hw division, in his first and second fights(ufc). check out him v mir 2, looked like he was going for a walk in the park. Brockness monster by gnp tko round 2!

Professey Chin

I dont see how Carwin could out-psyche Lesnar.
Carwin's not a legend like Couture.Lesnar isnt out for revenge like the 2nd Mir fight,he isn't debuting in the UFC like the 1st Mir fight.And Carwin doesn't exactly play mind games so thats out either.
If anything Lesnar seems really strong mentally, especially in the Herring fight.Coming off a lose and already having doubters, the control he showed in that fight was veteran at times

rovert

I thought this too ahead of the second Mir fight but I was proven wrong. I thought he was too implusive for Mir's ground game.

Brock's Pro Wrestling career came to an end due to many factors he wasnt a people person, hated the extensive travel ect. So the story goes the straw that broke the camel's back is that he looked around the locker room all the crippled up 40 year olds and decided he didnt want that as his future. He said in on ESPN360 I think he got though the last year of WWE via pain pills and vodka.

Shane certionly resembles the phase "cool, calm, collected" FAR more than Brock does Ill you give that.

Niall0

I think this is one of the hardest fights to call in ages, Id like to see Brock win but Shane has such powerfull punches he might pull it off.
Brock will probably go for takedowns from the start.

rovert

Niall0 wrote: »

I think this is one of the hardest fights to call in ages, Id like to see Brock win but Shane has such powerfull punches he might pull it off.
Brock will probably go for takedowns from the start.

The betting is really interesting:
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/ufc-mma/ufc-116/Brock-Lesnar-v-Shane-Carwin-1851449.html

Favouring Brock the longer it goes, while heavily favouring Carwin via KO in the first round.

Carwin in the first round is great value to me at least at 2/1

cardio,shoot me

i cant wait to see carwins cardio if this gets out of the first round, if hes fresh by the third, even if hes getten taken down at will, he can still land a big shot

rovert

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

i cant wait to see carwins cardio if this gets out of the first round, if hes fresh by the third, even if hes getten taken down at will, he can still land a big shot

The betting kind of implies implies that Carwin has no cardio or at least doesnt favour him.

If Im reading the betting correctly they think that either it will never go to the ground and Carwins via KO in the first round or Brock takes him to the ground and wins via GnP early. I think they are underestimating what Carwin can do on the ground if those are the hypothesises they are working off.

Shazbot

rovert wrote: »

The betting kind of implies implies that Carwin has no cardio or at least doesnt favour him.

It would be very unwise use the bookies odds as an indication of a fighters conditioning. They're speculating, like everyone, about Carwins cardio because he's never left the 1st round.

If Im reading the betting correctly they think that either it will never go to the ground and Carwins via KO in the first round or Brock takes him to the ground and wins via GnP early. I think they are underestimating what Carwin can do on the ground if those are the hypothesises they are working off.

I wouldn't read to much into how the bookies are rating this. Bookmakers have only started taking MMA bets recently and it shows in their knowledge. They don't offer draws, disqualifications and no contests. This events are less likely but are possible.

To top it off, the only offer method and round of victory for the bigger fights on the card. To me this implies that they don't know enough about the "lower tiered" fighters.

judas101

I'd be shocked if this fight goes into a second round

YamaMotoYama

Brock has never had a REALLY had hitter land on him to date... I really want Carwin to win this one!

If they stand and bang - Carwin will take it... but I think Brock will shoot straight away.

yourdeadwright

i think Brock will turn out like Mike Tyson, just in the respect that he is so used to being the big bully and whooping people that when he is put under pressure in the cage and his oppent brings it to him he will give up mentally, I just dont think he will be able to take much damage if it's put on him,you know the type that almost look for a way out after taking a few heavy shots,

Now in saying this i hope im worng cause i like Brock, but i think Carwin stop's him in round 2,

rovert

Brock has a posse:

Based on who has asked for tickets or given us word they are attending Saturday night's UFC 116, among those expected are Dwayne Johnson, Steve Austin, Bill Goldberg, Jim Ross and Paul Heyman. Heyman is already in Las Vegas at the Lesnar hideaway with his teammates like Marty Morgan, Chris Tutscherer, Comprido, Peter Welch and Jon Madsen. Tutscherer and Madsen are fighting on the undercard.

F4WOnline.com

calex71

rovert wrote: »

The betting is really interesting:
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/ufc-mma/ufc-116/Brock-Lesnar-v-Shane-Carwin-1851449.html

Favouring Brock the longer it goes, while heavily favouring Carwin via KO in the first round.

Carwin in the first round is great value to me at least at 2/1

Wow at those odd's it could be worth a small bet on a long shot of it going to points, 2 or 3 bob @ 18-1 and 28-1 would be a nice return on buttons indeed. Better than a quick pick in the lotto that's for sure. Even some of the other odd's are decent.

rovert

From an article today from Brocks friend/advisor/marketing/motivational man Paul Heyman:

Brock Lesnar has everyone guessing now. Is this new SPIRITUAL TRANQUILITY he has found the real deal? Or just a ploy to lure Carwin into a false sense of security, only to have the engineer from Greeley, Colorado surprised by the ferocity of the Lesnar Attack on Saturday night? I can tell you, Brock is in a great place in life. He's about to become a father for the third time, and he's come off his death bed and back into the Octagon to do what he feels is his job in life ... provide the best life for his family. He provides, by being the very best at what he does, which is stepping into the Octagon and winning. "People keep asking me, am I going to knock out Shane, make him tap, TKO, decision ... my game plan is to win. One way, or another," Brock told me today, "I'm not limited to one way to end this fight."

http://heymanhustle.craveonline.com/articles/news/103274-ufc-116

El_Drago

If anyone knows what's going on inside Brock's head it's Paul Heyman.I'm somewhat surprised by the sheer number of people that I've spoken to and on the internet that predict that Carwin is going to walk through Lesnar. Brock knows that Carwin is going to go for the KO straight off the bat and I reckon he'll go for the shoot takedown fairly early on. It should be a very interesting fight indeed with a lingering question mark over Carwin's cardio should the fight make it past rd 1.

rovert

An interview with Paul Heyman about his friendship with Brock:

For those who never watched Pro Wrestling he is not what you would expect. He is an extremely intelligent person with a great way with words. So have a look.

Butch Cassidy

rovert wrote: »

I thought this too ahead of the second Mir fight but I was proven wrong. I thought he was too implusive for Mir's ground game.

Brock's Pro Wrestling career came to an end due to many factors he wasnt a people person, hated the extensive travel ect. So the story goes the straw that broke the camel's back is that he looked around the locker room all the crippled up 40 year olds and decided he didnt want that as his future. He said in on ESPN360 I think he got though the last year of WWE via pain pills and vodka..

Interesting. I knew about the travel and not being a people person stuff but wasn't aware of the vodka and pills. Got a link for that interview?

yourdeadwright wrote: »

i think Brock will turn out like Mike Tyson, just in the respect that he is so used to being the big bully and whooping people that when he is put under pressure in the cage and his oppent brings it to him he will give up mentally, I just dont think he will be able to take much damage if it's put on him,you know the type that almost look for a way out after taking a few heavy shots,

Now in saying this i hope im worng cause i like Brock, but i think Carwin stop's him in round 2,

I kinda thought Brock reminded me of Tyson too after that second Mir fight when he got in Mir's face after. It could've been an act but I dunno...



With regards to Lesnar's psyche.... eh who knows really?! As Heyman said on that video, he was on his deathbed. How will that affect his psyche? First match back and all...
"This is his comeback from his deathbed" - that's a bizarre sounding sentence.

rovert

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Interesting. I knew about the travel and not being a people person stuff but wasn't aware of the vodka and pills. Got a link for that interview?

Here is a cut down version of the full show:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5348878#

baaaa

Carwin is quietly psycho,seen him in an interview the other day where he was nonchanantly reminiscing on the way his ma used to have to go outside and get the whip cause her belt wasn't enough to discipline him and the brothers.

Butch Cassidy

So do yis think Lesnar's mental game was all there? I'm wondering if Carwin's psyche going into the second was lessened by the fight not being stopped. He had to be thinking a) I'm gas'd and b) what the hell do I do now...


In the second rd Brock I don't think was damaged mentally.

El_Drago

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

So do yis think Lesnar's mental game was all there? I'm wondering if Carwin's psyche going into the second was lessened by the fight not being stopped. He had to be thinking a) I'm gas'd and b) what the hell do I do now...


In the second rd Brock I don't think was damaged mentally.

Lesnar already made it a few rounds in some of his previous fights and had proven that he had cardio to go with it.There was always a lingering question over Carwins's cardio due to never making it past rd 1. Carwin must have had some sense of urgency to finish Lesnar early and when he didn't, the two thoughts you mentioned must have gone through his mind on the stool between rounds. Brock,for a guy who had taken as much punishment as he did in the first round, looked highly confident when he was coming out for the rd 2.

Karmafaerie

The single strongest thing about Brock Lesnar is his mental game.

The guy really does think of himself as invincible.

Jason McCabe

Brock is still the toughest SOB around...

Oh and he scarmbled Mir's eggs last year.


His biggest weakness is his striking. But he just survived one of the heaviest set of hands in the UFC.


If the guy remains eager he will be one very tough guy to take out.

Like him or not he is good for the sport.

nacho libre

i think what made made him stronger going into this fight was coming out the other side of what he went through. it's possible what kept him going in round 1 was the thought if i can look death in the face and live to tell the tale i can survive this guy pounding on me.

Butch Cassidy

Jason McCabe wrote: »

If the guy remains eager he will be one very tough guy to take out.

Like him or not he is good for the sport.

Tough to take out indeed but I can't wait until someone does! Much like all of the other top UFC guys who have eventually been beat. It's great when someone dethrones the king. Like you say, good for the sport

Mentally Lesnar was probably ahead at the start of round 2. "How the hell do I beat this guy after pummeling him in the first." must've been running through Carwin's head.

rovert

Didnt know where to post this really:

Paul Heyman on the MMA hour
http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/08/16/the-mma-hour-live-with-paul-heyman-in-studio/

What a crazy entertaining and intelligent conman/carny dude.

Fun watch.

Gerard.C

rovert wrote: »

Didnt know where to post this really:

Paul Heyman on the MMA hour
http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/08/16/the-mma-hour-live-with-paul-heyman-in-studio/

What a crazy entertaining and intelligent conman/carny dude.

Fun watch.

Whats the official relationship between Heyman and Lesnar these days?

rovert

Gerard.C wrote: »

Whats the official relationship between Heyman and Lesnar these days?

Biographer/Co-Author of Lesnar's book. He says in that interview that he isn’t and wouldn’t want to be Brock's business manager. Unofficially Heyman is his advisor where it comes to interviews and promotions.

After fully watching it I’d probably advise (and after this weeks shenanigans I dont mean this in any cutesy way at all) "pure MMA fans" not to watch it as there is some Pro Wrestling talk and a boat load of compare and contrast MMA and Pro Wrestling stuff.

Heyman runs down all the opportunities in buying and/or running Strikeforce, IFL, Yamma etc and why he didnt.

Heyman's description of the Yamma pitch is hilarious. Paraphrased:

"The guy who changed music with King Biscuit AND started UFC is back and Live Nation's putting up the money! Holy ****, a real UFC competitor! Who's in your first main event?"
"Tank Abbott"
*Paul gestures tapping out*

callaway92

rovert wrote: »

Didnt know where to post this really:

Paul Heyman on the MMA hour
http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/08/16/the-mma-hour-live-with-paul-heyman-in-studio/

What a crazy entertaining and intelligent conman/carny dude.

Fun watch.

thanks a million for this link, thoroughly enjoyed it. Is this show always as interesting?? I spose I enjoyed it immensly though as I am a fairly big fan of Heyman

rovert

callaway92 wrote: »

thanks a million for this link, thoroughly enjoyed it. Is this show always as interesting?? I spose I enjoyed it immensly though as I am a fairly big fan of Heyman

Cheers

Honestly first I heard of it too I must hunt down the show's podcast.

Heyman in telling porkies shock:

"No, actually I thought that was amazing because, think about this, this was in 2004 and how would I have never heard that, I've never heard that story before, so anyway..." - Dave "read between the lines" Meltzer at the 30:38 mark of the free August 17th Observer Radio Show about Paul Heyman's claim that he told Vince McMahon to nix The Ultimate Fighter airing after Raw.

Dave Meltzer and Paul Heyman have been close friends and sounding boards for thirty years btw :pac:

Jayo_M

callaway92 wrote: »

thanks a million for this link, thoroughly enjoyed it. Is this show always as interesting?? I spose I enjoyed it immensly though as I am a fairly big fan of Heyman

It usually is a very good show. They have Overeem on it for his birthday which was a fun watch. They do have some last minute pull-outs from time to time which can be disappointing and make the show full of filler, like Fedor and King Mo were meant to be on it on different occasions but both no showed without telling anybody so he was trying to fill the show while waiting for them to arrive.