I want this sound!

Android 666

This is just to try and get a bit of conversation going 'cause its gone a wee bit quiet around here. I've been looking around on different forums and I always see these requests where people ask how to get a specific sound in a record (usually a bass line) and recreate it exactly. Just wondering what people thought about this. I thought the whole idea was to try and make your tracks sound unique. While I understand that trying to recreate a sound will help you to understand the process of synthesis better I don't think that this is the poster's aim and seems a bit lacking in originality. Don't shoot me now just wondering what people thought.

Neurojazz

Android 666 wrote: »

I thought the whole idea was to try and make your tracks sound unique.

That wouldn't apply when trying to make something genre specific - some sounds are shared or work well in a certain way.

Another thing could be that the person had a certain 'hit/high' when they were off their head listening to it (not beating around the bush, but a lot of clubbers will be under the effects of various narcotics and the music can be aimed at them)

I remember getting into 303 processing in detail after experiencing the effects of those extreme high fundamentals when it was resonated and learned a lot about controlling the path someone takes through a track while 'under the influence'

Because this forum covers such a wide band of writers and producers, this would only be one reason why people might want to create a certain sound.

romarr

I think its a jumping off point ... I definitely learn loads trying to create a specific sound and it never (ever !) sounds exactly like the original - so in that way it is unique albeit taking inspiration from an example

If the “offending” posters wanted to they could just sample the sound and use it that way so I reckon the motivation is ultimately of learning

Saying that some of those posts are down right lazy… they rarely describe what they have tried so far, if anything. And then get their noses all out of joint when various ways or techniques are suggested

Android 666

Neurojazz wrote: »

Another thing could be that the person had a certain 'hit/high' when they were off their head listening to it (not beating around the bush, but a lot of clubbers will be under the effects of various narcotics and the music can be aimed at them)

I remember getting into 303 processing in detail after experiencing the effects of those extreme high fundamentals when it was resonated and learned a lot about controlling the path someone takes through a track while 'under the influence'

Because this forum covers such a wide band of writers and producers, this would only be one reason why people might want to create a certain sound.

Nah, it wasn't on this forum at all. It was on a different producers forum altogether - not trying to get at anyone here. Usually people here will ask how you might make something similar to what they heard. On this forum there seemed to be loads of people asking how to create sounds exactly the same which seemed a bit odd. I would have thought if it was a sound you kind of wanted for your own track that you'd do up your own approximation and kind of put your own little slant on it to make it more unique for yourself.

Obviously there was lots of stuff I used to hear when I was off my trolley that I would have loved to try and emulate if I had some equipment to work with back in the day. And I understand that if you're working in a specific genre that you are going to be working in a certain soundscape but it just seemed curious that people would want to replicate a sound the exact same. Wouldn't people not just automatically go 'Oh that sounds the exact same as XXXX' and not in a good way.

Again not attacking anyone, just throwing the question out there

Android 666

romarr wrote: »

Saying that some of those posts are down right lazy… they rarely describe what they have tried so far, if anything. And then get their noses all out of joint when various ways or techniques are suggested

I think that's kind of what stood out for me. People would suggest something to the op and then the person would reply and say no, that's not it, I want it to sound the exact same. Just seemed kind of odd.

Neurojazz

Android 666 wrote: »

Nah, it wasn't on this forum at all. It was on a different producers forum altogether - not trying to get at anyone here. Usually people here will ask how you might make something similar to what they heard. On this forum there seemed to be loads of people asking how to create sounds exactly the same which seemed a bit odd. I would have thought if it was a sound you kind of wanted for your own track that you'd do up your own approximation and kind of put your own little slant on it to make it more unique for yourself.

Obviously there was lots of stuff I used to hear when I was off my trolley that I would have loved to try and emulate if I had some equipment to work with back in the day. And I understand that if you're working in a specific genre that you are going to be working in a certain soundscape but it just seemed curious that people would want to replicate a sound the exact same. Wouldn't people not just automatically go 'Oh that sounds the exact same as XXXX' and not in a good way.

Again not attacking anyone, just throwing the question out there

Yeah, don't think you're having a go at all lol

Think also that what are the chances of a DJ having the exact record in his collection that has that same sound etc... doesn't really matter as probably also that the track may not get heard by many people and probably a hobbyist musician.

That or the super-saw situation where it's the same sound but used in different ways across tracks sounding different and presented in a different way.

Also this forum is pretty young - give it time

ArmCandyBaby

I remember seeing an interview with Barney Sumner where he said after they'd released Blue Monday, Kraftwek came knocking asking about their kick sound. Barney offered to give them the sample but they decline, "No, no, no... You must show us the process!". If it's a good enough way for them to work!...

I think it's just a natural curiousity. You can't expect to be a great producer if you can't make the sounds you desire at will.

Btw on bass sounds: are they more a product of the hardware/software that you use rather than your skills as a programmer? I'm working in reason and I'd be confident enough getting in the ballpark of most pad/lead/effects sounds that I hear these days but for some bass sounds I'm beginning to think it's impossible! Apologies for going off topic.

Neurojazz

ArmCandyBaby wrote: »

Btw on bass sounds: are they more a product of the hardware/software that you use rather than your skills as a programmer? I'm working in reason and I'd be confident enough getting in the ballpark of most pad/lead/effects sounds that I hear these days but for some bass sounds I'm beginning to think it's impossible! Apologies for going off topic.

They are a bit tricky, and there is an audible difference between vst/hardware etc...

BUT, it's down to technique also to get what you have in front of you stable - using EQ for example you can reduce boost the notes which are too loud/quiet, use a compressor to give it more bite or overdrive to filth it up etc....

Reason is a bit funny in someways, you can get everything sounding fine in there working as an entity - but use rewire into another app and get a vst/hardware over the top and you can hear differences - not that it matters if your music is selling of course!

From experience, i'm selling music made with reason on Armada, music made with it rewired and stuff that cubase etc... so doesn't matter too much, but would say that if you have a killer 12" that you'd be better off going to a studio and investing a few days on swapping the lot out with hardware for impact (if you think you can get away with it) - many parameters may mean that it can't happen.

Feel free to post snippets/problems and we'll try to help with specific info.

rcaz

romarr wrote: »

If the “offending” posters wanted to they could just sample the sound and use it that way so I reckon the motivation is ultimately of learning

That's what I think. I've only been working seriously with Ableton for a few weeks, I'm getting obsessed with working synths into the kind of music I make (I'm a guitarist in a rock band that tries to not sound like a rock band), and I'm trying to learn all I can as quickly as possible. I've been opening up all of the instrument presets in Ableton and trying to work out how to get the typical synth sounds. I'm starting with absolutely no applied knowledge of synths, other than the theory of how they work and the sounds I like to hear. If I wasn't worried about making annoying forum posts every few hours ("WHAT IS HE DOING HERE??"), I'd be one of those offending posters

romarr

El Pr0n wrote: »

... I'm trying to learn all I can as quickly as possible. I've been opening up all of the instrument presets in Ableton and trying to work out how to get the typical synth sounds.

its a good way to figure it out ...

le youtube is useful too

El Pr0n wrote: »

If I wasn't worried about making annoying forum posts every few hours ("WHAT IS HE DOING HERE??"), I'd be one of those offending posters

as mentioned above post away, snippets and brief description of what you're doing and using will defo help

rcaz

romarr wrote: »

as mentioned above post away, snippets and brief description of what you're doing and using will defo help

I don't want to get specific yet, I don't even know the basics that well

jtsuited

I think one of the greatest skills you can develop is being able to reverse engineer any sound.
And you only get the hang of that through hours of experimentation and practice.

DylanJM

http://synth.tk/

Full of tutorials and good advice.

Kenny DNK

im only new to synthesis and find that recreating sounds that youve already heard is a handy way to learn how everything works..

Anima

Plus many sounds you hear in songs are variations of the same type of patch. Every genre usually has a particular bass sound that is used. With dnb its the reece, with dubstep its the wubwub type thing etc.

rcaz

I was wondering earlier, how much of a synth sound comes from the actual synth being used? Like how people go for 'that Minimoog bass' or something - the premise of the synthesiser is that it can make any sound possible with X oscillators and Y filters, right?

I've heard something about how Bob Moog had a particular way of making his filters, so that's probably something to do with it? Take - for example - Everything In Its Right Place by Radiohead. The main bit in that is done on a Prophet 5, and I've heard lots of worshipping of Sequential Circuits synths, especially the Prophet 5... why? People don't like the Prophet 600 as much because of the digitally-controlled filters, but is that it?

Neurojazz

El Pr0n wrote: »

I was wondering earlier, how much of a synth sound comes from the actual synth being used? Like how people go for 'that Minimoog bass' or something - the premise of the synthesiser is that it can make any sound possible with X oscillators and Y filters, right?

I've heard something about how Bob Moog had a particular way of making his filters, so that's probably something to do with it? Take - for example - Everything In Its Right Place by Radiohead. The main bit in that is done on a Prophet 5, and I've heard lots of worshipping of Sequential Circuits synths, especially the Prophet 5... why? People don't like the Prophet 600 as much because of the digitally-controlled filters, but is that it?

The wave shape can be very specific, and how these are shaped by different filters yields different results.

I was blow away once when I was cutting samples up at the variance in the wave shapes of something simple like a saw.

The sequential circuits stuff... well, i played with one in the watershed in the uk and was blown away.... you could tear sounds apart in ways that were *unreal* - nothing could touch it for messing up sounds in that way. I also had an Octave Cat for a while... anything made for computers will not make those sort of noises, *yet*.

Anima

El Pr0n wrote: »

I was wondering earlier, how much of a synth sound comes from the actual synth being used? Like how people go for 'that Minimoog bass' or something - the premise of the synthesiser is that it can make any sound possible with X oscillators and Y filters, right?

With analog stuff, you can't change the shape of the waveform like with VSTs because its a physical hardware circuit. So they're stuck with the timbre of whatever shape the circuit outputs, the only thing you can do is shape it with a filter. A lot of the time they don't look like the shape they're supposed to be either so each synth tends to sound different.

.ak

I would certainly say I've learned the most whilst trying to recreate sounds from other tracks. If I made something by 'experimenting', then I'll never know why or how the synth made that sound. I wouldn't understand it as well as going through the process of making that sound.

Hardware or VST, the whole point of mastering a synth/instrument is to be able to make any sound you hear in your inner ear really... So accidently coming across sounds will never let you learn...

Think about the other end of the spectrum, Bands... Most bands, musicians, learn music by playing other people's music. Tribute bands, classical music, etc., etc. I've never heard of Pianist writing his own scores before he learns Mozart, or a guitarist learn to write riffs before mastering Nirvana or the Meat Puppets...

So certainly, the people who are trolling the 'How to Sound Like' forums are the people we'll be copying tomorrow... That's music isn't it?

-A