Do our dogs love us?

i-digress

Maybe I'm quite fanciful in thinking that my 15 week old labrador pup loves me, but I love her and I like to think it's reciprocated. She's my companion and best friend. I spend a lot of time at home due to illness, and she is the best company you can have. She loves cuddles, is always happy to see me, and likes to be close to me.

Some animal behaviourists believe that dogs are incapable of love, that they act how they do out of survival instinct, but I don't think that's true. Dogs often stay with owners who are less than ideal.

What do you guys think?

morganafay

I think they do! They'll often pine if their owner dies or goes away, so they must love them.

I have a friend who studied psychology in college, and he was playing with my kitten and saying about how cats don't feel love, they just feel want. So they want you, they want to be with you, they enjoy being with you, but they don't love you as such.

And he also said that dogs feel pure love, as pure as love can be. They're just obsessed with you, and adore you. And they feel unconditional love, so it's better than a human's love.

But then he said "of course there's no such thing as love anyway".


I like to think my dogs love me. I like to think my cats love me too though! I think they do, but I know they'd go find another home if I didn't feed them . . .

tk123

He better - the amount of money he costs me!

i-digress

tk123 wrote: »

He better - the amount of money he costs me!

Lol!

Graces7

Depends on your definition of love.

The old phrase "dog- like devotion" has a reality. Scary at times.

But whether that can or indeeed should be compared to what we as humans mean as love is another matter entirely.

They need us certainly. And bond so strongly with their person that that bond can survive death.

And it is that that we sometimes mistake for love?

Cats also do, especially if hand reared.

i-digress

Graces7 wrote: »

Depends on your definition of love.

The old phrase "dog- like devotion" has a reality. Scary at times.

But whether that can or indeeed should be compared to what we as humans mean as love is another matter entirely.

They need us certainly. And bond so strongly with their person that that bond can survive death.

And it is that that we sometimes mistake for love?

Cats also do, especially if hand reared.

I suppose by love I mean, do they have an affection for us that surpasses the fact that we provide for them and are their pack leader. I don't think human and canine emotions are the same.

Whispered

Graces7 wrote: »

Cats also do, especially if hand reared.

So refreshing to hear that! I believe my cats "love" me every bit as much as my dog does. Most people won't believe me.

Acoshla

You can't look at this photo and tell me dogs don't feel love! That is a look of sheer adoration right there

Graces7

i-digress wrote: »

I suppose by love I mean, do they have an affection for us that surpasses the fact that we provide for them and are their pack leader. I don't think human and canine emotions are the same.

That almost says it all in a nutshell.. Thank you.

And like all critters, they suffer 'skin hunger"; ie like us they need physical contact.

Maybe we interpret the idea of "unconditional love" wrongly in human terms also.

Mistaking that bonding for something else; eg Bill Sykes' dog in Oliver Twist that refuses to leave a cruel master.

anniehoo

Im not sure about "love" in our definition of the word.But, ive no doubt our pets feel some sort of connection whether it be comfort,contentness,security,happiness..or all of them. I think we may all be guilty of anthropomorphising (thats a hard word to spell) our pets so what we feel isnt necessarily what they do. I do think alot of domesticated animals bond with their owners and have emotions so i dont totally rule it out either.

The pure excitement i got from my dog when she used to see me coming in the door was enough to convince me there was a whole lot of "happy" goin on with her

easyeason3

Spadina wrote: »

You can't look at this photo and tell me dogs don't feel love! That is a look of sheer adoration right there

That is a fantastic picture. I'm jealous I don't have one like it!

morganafay

Whispered wrote: »

So refreshing to hear that! I believe my cats "love" me every bit as much as my dog does. Most people won't believe me.

I think cats are more intelligent complicated animals, that can love people every bit as much as dogs, but just have more complex emotions than dogs maybe.

Like my dogs love me, but they'd love any person who was nice to them. My cats have built up a bond with me over time (as have the dogs, but they loved me straight away!)

Sigma Force

My opinion on cats anyways is that some do love their owners, cats aren't really pack animals as such some do like being in groups or having one or two other special cat buddies but the fact that they aren't all 100% pack animals means the fact they want to be around you and miss you if you're gone means they love you even more than pooches which are pack animals and all hate being without their pack member.

My dogs rely on me and need me but they are such users, people say that about cats which isn't true. I'm my dogs security and that's why they cling and want to be around me, plus I provide the food.

Ah who knows really at the end of the day we can't read their minds..yet eh..

morganafay

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

My dogs rely on me and need me but they are such users, people say that about cats which isn't true. I'm my dogs security and that's why they cling and want to be around me, plus I provide the food.

I definitely agree with that! Not trying to turn this into a dogs vs cats thing, cos I love both, but it seems like my dogs always want me to give them attention/affection, but my cats will give me affection more than I give them. One of my cats gets fed by the neighbours (a few neighbours and gets better food than I give him!) so he has no need for me, but he stays here all the time and is the most affectionate cat ever.

Graces7

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

My opinion on cats anyways is that some do love their owners, cats aren't really pack animals as such some do like being in groups or having one or two other special cat buddies but the fact that they aren't all 100% pack animals means the fact they want to be around you and miss you if you're gone means they love you even more than pooches which are pack animals and all hate being without their pack member.

My dogs rely on me and need me but they are such users, people say that about cats which isn't true. I'm my dogs security and that's why they cling and want to be around me, plus I provide the food.

Ah who knows really at the end of the day we can't read their minds..yet eh..

My cats are shameless "users" of me. Utterly shameless! Wee manipulative furry ....:)

morganafay

Graces7 wrote: »

My cats are shameless "users" of me. Utterly shameless! Wee manipulative furry ....:)

I've had cats like that too! One of my cats abandoned me for the neighbours! She still came back to me for food, but then spent the whole day with the neighbours.

But I have one cat (the abandoner's daughter) who is the crankiest cat ever, hates other cats, would scratch anyone as soon as look at them, but she's loyal and had always stuck around. And sometimes, she's really really friendly and nice to me, so I think she might actually like me!

peasant

just to counter that "aaaaahhhh" doggy picture



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055862096

i-digress

peasant wrote: »

just to counter that "aaaaahhhh" doggy picture



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055862096

Aw! So cute!

merengueca

My dog lived with me for two years after being abused by his previous owner. A lot of time and effort was spent in gaining his trust, then his friendship and now I believe his love.
I had to make the tough decision to let him move in with my parents so he could spend his day in a big garden with their dog, cat and ducks... so lots of activity and generally following my Dad around country lanes and fields all day. This was opposed to living in a 2 bed house with me, being locked in on his own while I was at work.

So in Paddy's eyes my Dad would be leader of the pack and Mum the provider as she supplies dinner..... but when I turn up I get a mental ginger lab bombing around the garden at speed, following me everywhere (he has to be locked in the kitchen if I go out without him until at least 10 mins after I've gone), he usually chooses to sleep with Alfie and Jess (Cat and Dog) in the barn unless I'm home - then he sleeps outside my bedroom door. He loves me more than a fat kid loves cake!

smokie2008

i-digress wrote: »

Maybe I'm quite fanciful in thinking that my 15 week old labrador pup loves me, but I love her and I like to think it's reciprocated. She's my companion and best friend. I spend a lot of time at home due to illness, and she is the best company you can have. She loves cuddles, is always happy to see me, and likes to be close to me.

Some animal behaviourists believe that dogs are incapable of love, that they act how they do out of survival instinct, but I don't think that's true. Dogs often stay with owners who are less than ideal.

What do you guys think?

Absolute bull****, GUARANTEE that dog loves you, they behave exactly like a child would, especially if you spend most of your time together, panics if you leave, gets depressed if away from each other too long, jumps all over you when you come in like a child would when you got in from work, they cuddle you, protect you play with you, Dogs are absolutely by far the best companions EVER. All they ever do is love you, every single time without fail when you come home they are absolutely over the moon to see you........Love dogs ha

lrushe

I firmly believe you will never know true unconditional love until you've had a dog. Their love is so honest and refreshing, no hidden agendas, they wear their heart on their sleeve and make no excuses for it. Do dogs love in the same way as humans? No, they do it better

ShnakeHunter

i-digress wrote: »

Maybe I'm quite fanciful in thinking that my 15 week old labrador pup loves me, but I love her and I like to think it's reciprocated. She's my companion and best friend. I spend a lot of time at home due to illness, and she is the best company you can have. She loves cuddles, is always happy to see me, and likes to be close to me.

Some animal behaviourists believe that dogs are incapable of love, that they act how they do out of survival instinct, but I don't think that's true. Dogs often stay with owners who are less than ideal.

What do you guys think?

Ive a labrador pup aswell. bout 20 weeks old. i think it takes a while for them to bond with you he hasnt made dat bond yet but i yhink he will. had 2 other labradors and they were loyal to us . i believe this is love

peasant

Still wouldn't call it "love" though.

Simply because the dogs have no choice in the matter. They "love" whoever ends up owning them (even right cruel bastards sometimes), they don't run off and live with the neighbour down the road because they "love" them more and they don't fall out of "love" either and divorce you because they've "moved on".:D

Dogs are conditioned by nature to live (and thrive!) in a structured, social group environement. Give them that and they'll be happy and show it to you.
Don't give them quite as much as they want and they'll come begging for it, giving you the feeling that they "love" you when all they want is recognition and attention.

But "love" or no "love" ...they still are brilliant companions and it certainly does us no harm to love them anyway, even if they might not strictly love us.

i-digress

peasant wrote: »

the dogs have no choice in the matter. They "love" whoever ends up owning them (even right cruel bastards sometimes), us.

While I don't think human love and doggy love is the same, when children are taken away from parents who beat them the kids often scream because they want to stay with their parents, even though they're treated badly. I think maybe dogs love like kids who never grow up.

i-digress

i-digress wrote: »

Maybe I'm quite fanciful in thinking that my 15 week old labrador pup loves me, but I love her and I like to think it's reciprocated. She's my companion and best friend. I spend a lot of time at home due to illness, and she is the best company you can have. She loves cuddles, is always happy to see me, and likes to be close to me.

Some animal behaviourists believe that dogs are incapable of love, that they act how they do out of survival instinct, but I don't think that's true. Dogs often stay with owners who are less than ideal.

What do you guys think?

I guess they never heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachi !!!
Our dogs love us and we love them to bits too.
I feel sorry for people who claim dogs don't even have personalities, they can't have kept dogs or have any interest in them

Graces7

lrushe wrote: »

I firmly believe you will never know true unconditional love until you've had a dog. Their love is so honest and refreshing, no hidden agendas, they wear their heart on their sleeve and make no excuses for it. Do dogs love in the same way as humans? No, they do it better

It is a need-love only; not denigrating or minimising it in any way.

Not better; different is all. Anthropomorphism is a dangerous thing.

human love is totally different is all; and it can be and is a fuller one. Dog love is two dimensional; human love is multi-faceted. Needs more thought and care is all!

So dog love is easier. Limited though of course.

So no they do not do it better. Very limited is all.

Graces7

peasant wrote: »

Still wouldn't call it "love" though.

Simply because the dogs have no choice in the matter. They "love" whoever ends up owning them (even right cruel bastards sometimes), they don't run off and live with the neighbour down the road because they "love" them more and they don't fall out of "love" either and divorce you because they've "moved on".:D

Dogs are conditioned by nature to live (and thrive!) in a structured, social group environement. Give them that and they'll be happy and show it to you.
Don't give them quite as much as they want and they'll come begging for it, giving you the feeling that they "love" you when all they want is recognition and attention.

But "love" or no "love" ...they still are brilliant companions and it certainly does us no harm to love them anyway, even if they might not strictly love us.

Good assessment and honest! Thank you.

We tend to see what WE need in any relationship, don;t we?

I am fairly new to dogs; well, five years now I suppose. So I see it differently I suppose. And our second dog, the collie, so abused, has been a baptism of fire in many ways.

So her dire needs are what are most apparent. the giving has been one-sided in so many ways. No regrets; we are here to serve after all.

And she is healing but slowly and that is what matters.

morganafay

I love how when I got my puppy, she just loved me straight away, pertty much the same with kittens. But then animals like my rabbits and guinea pigs, you have to work so hard to gain their trust and "love" if they ever do love you. But then when they do something like lick your hand, it's so rewarding because you've literally put months of work into that.

Graces7

morganafay wrote: »

I love how when I got my puppy, she just loved me straight away, pertty much the same with kittens. But then animals like my rabbits and guinea pigs, you have to work so hard to gain their trust and "love" if they ever do love you. But then when they do something like lick your hand, it's so rewarding because you've literally put months of work into that.

I don't want or ask that of any animal; only they they be themselves and happy with being themselves.

Would hate for eg wild birds to eat from my hand.

When we lived on a pine marten;s patch we were so careful not to "tame" her in any way; that would have diminished her nature and her beauty

And the same with the dogs; any training is for their safety only. So no tricks etc.

That is my way of loving them. Which to me matters more than if they love me. Leaving them free.

lrushe

Graces7 wrote: »

It is a need-love only; not denigrating or minimising it in any way.

Not better; different is all. Anthropomorphism is a dangerous thing.

human love is totally different is all; and it can be and is a fuller one. Dog love is two dimensional; human love is multi-faceted. Needs more thought and care is all!

So dog love is easier. Limited though of course.

So no they do not do it better. Very limited is all.

And sometimes I think people over think things too much, of course logically I could sit down and reason that my dogs loves me because of X,Y and Z but I'd rather take their 'love' at face value and enjoy it for what it is. Even people have reasons for loving another person so what makes dogs any different or their love of any less value?

peasant

lrushe wrote: »

what makes dogs any different or their love of any less value?

Personally, I value my dogs' "love" immensely.

[hairsplitting exercise]
Love by definition is a human emotion. Dogs, as animals, are incapable of experiencing/feeling/expressing human love (as it is defined). Human love, over and above a raft of feelings and emotions (which dogs also experience to a degree) also calls for the involvement of a rational component which dogs simply do not possess
[/hairsplitting exercise]

morganafay

Graces7 wrote: »

I don't want or ask that of any animal; only they they be themselves and happy with being themselves.

Would hate for eg wild birds to eat from my hand.

When we lived on a pine marten;s patch we were so careful not to "tame" her in any way; that would have diminished her nature and her beauty

And the same with the dogs; any training is for their safety only. So no tricks etc.

That is my way of loving them. Which to me matters more than if they love me. Leaving them free.

I definitely agree with letting them be themselves. Two of my guinea pigs are nervous, so I don't handle them or try to force them to become used to being handled, because they hate it. I just give them treats and let them come to me if they want. Some people really humanize them, and treat them more like a dog or cat, like picking them up and playing with them, but you have to let them be themselves.

But some of them are very friendly and love being cuddled. I doubt they love me, they just love the cuddles and treats they get, but sometimes they show affection to me and that's very rewarding, that I have gained their trust.

My rabbits don't like being cuddled, as rabbits often don't, so I try not to pick them up unless I have to move them somewhere. But I sit with them and let them hop onto my lap if they want and be rubbed and they'll nibble my hands or rub their chin up to me, kinda like how a cat rubs their face on you.

I like them to be tame, because they are happier when they are tamer, then when they're scared all the time. The tamer ones will be more outgoing and run around more, etc. And they are domesticated animals after all. But I really respect that they might not want to be handled and are prey animals so can be nervous.

I don't see anything wrong with gaining their trust over months of sitting with them, feeding them treats, etc. but not by forcing them to be handled when they don't want to be.

lrushe

peasant wrote: »

Personally, I value my dogs' "love" immensely.

[hairsplitting exercise]
Love by definition is a human emotion. Dogs, as animals, are incapable of experiencing/feeling/expressing human love (as it is defined). Human love, over and above a raft of feelings and emotions (which dogs also experience to a degree) also calls for the involvement of a rational component which dogs simply do not possess
[/hairsplitting exercise]

I do agree that 'love' is prehaps not technically (in a hair splitting kinda way!) the correct word for what dog feels but its hard to put an exact word on it so love will do for me

morganafay

There are lots of different types of love, so even if they don't have human love, they still kinda feel love. Maybe their love is better, because humans often hurt the people they love . . .

Even if they don't have human love, they're still great because they don't have other negative human emotions . . .

mikemac

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

My opinion on cats anyways is that some do love their owners, cats aren't really pack animals as such some do like being in groups or having one or two other special cat buddies but the fact that they aren't all 100% pack animals means the fact they want to be around you and miss you if you're gone means they love you even more than pooches which are pack animals and all hate being without their pack member.

Lucky you.
I get the impression our cat and some of the cats before her utterly look down on our family. A complete user!
Walking around the kitchen like they own the place and the humans are in the way.
Lately the cat has shacked up with the neighbours, she has her pick of places to dine.

There is a lot of definitions of a dogs love for it's owner but the quote on Page 2 said it best. They love differently to humans and they do it better, ah

Graces7

morganafay wrote: »

There are lots of different types of love, so even if they don't have human love, they still kinda feel love. Maybe their love is better, because humans often hurt the people they love . . .

Even if they don't have human love, they're still great because they don't have other negative human emotions . . .

Hmmm, re the "negative human emotions"... Our wee hound ( JRT /Bassett cross. jackass? Russet?) gets insanely jealous of colle when collie is getting attention she wants to the point of attacking her. ( not too seriously.. just making sure she knows her place).

I have no illusions re their nature; they are after all, dogs..

And not all people hurt the ones they love by any means.

morganafay

Graces7 wrote: »

Hmmm, re the "negative human emotions"... Our wee hound ( JRT /Bassett cross. jackass? Russet?) gets insanely jealous of colle when collie is getting attention she wants to the point of attacking her. ( not too seriously.. just making sure she knows her place).

I have no illusions re their nature; they are after all, dogs..

And not all people hurt the ones they love by any means.

No, but humans can do bad things, and dogs, even if they are aggressive or something, could never be capable of something evil. They're animals and innocent, and even if they do something someone considers bad, they may have no understanding of it being wrong . . . if that makes sense.

Dogs can be jealous, greedy, grumpy etc. but they're innocent animals at the end of the day. They don't have spite or hold grudges or anything. Well not the same way people can!

peasant

lrushe wrote: »

I do agree that 'love' is prehaps not technically (in a hair splitting kinda way!) the correct word for what dog feels but its hard to put an exact word on it so love will do for me

[hairsplitting exercise volume II]
...and therein lies the danger ...it will not do!
By applying human values to animals and their behaviour we are doing them a great disservice, even if we only use these human values in a descriptive fashion

No great harm in saying that your dog loves you ...or so one would think.
but this kind of talk also opens the floodgates to people who claim that (all or certain breeds) dogs are "viscious" and that they would "savage" you, etc ...

We, who love our dogs, should take great care to descibe them and their behaviour in the correct vocabular that befits them and their capabilities ...it is in their interest.
[/hairsplitting exercise volume II]

lrushe

peasant wrote: »

No great harm in saying that your dog loves you ...or so one would think.
but this kind of talk also opens the floodgates to people who claim that (all or certain breeds) dogs are "viscious" and that they would "savage" you, etc ...

Sorry I don't see the comparison there at all??? So what one word would you use to describe how your dog feels about you if anything at all?

fishfoodie

I think one has to accept that dogs & cats come from different species, & the two species have different genetic-level instincts.

Dogs are derived from wolves, a pack animal; so they need at a fundamental level companionship.

Some cat species, do have prides, but a lot, I think more do not.

I think this is why you get the whole range of behaviours from cats; but with dogs you know that they will need to be part of the pack.

As for love; I give you 'Grey-Friars Bobby' !

Greyfriars Bobby was a Skye Terrier who became known in 19th-century Edinburgh after reportedly spending 14 years guarding the grave of his owner, John Gray, until he died himself on 14 January 1872. A year later, Lady Burdett-Coutts had a statue and fountain erected at the southern end of the George IV Bridge to commemorate him.

peasant

lrushe wrote: »

Sorry I don't see the comparison there at all??? So what one word would you use to describe how your dog feels about you if anything at all?

You got me there ...can't really think of one word to properly describe a feeling that I myself have never felt and will never feel ...I'm not a dog after all.

That still doesn't change my main point though. If we use our human value system and apply it 1:1 to dogs (and other animals) we are doing them an injustice by evaluating their behaviour to a non-applicable scale.

So dogs may not be capable of love (in the strict sense), but they are also not capable of being devious or evil, which should be a consolation.


What I'm trying to get at in the long run is to stop people from accusing dogs of things that they aren't capable/guilty of (see "dangerous dogs" discussion) and to try and get people to see dogs for what they really are and treat them accordingly.
This may all be a bit heady in such an innocent thread, but it needs to be said anyway.

xxchloexx

I was minding my aunts dog for her while she was away its a little yorkie the same as my own dog , but my dog didn't want anything to do with him , if i would pet the other dog mine would come over and bark until i picked him up insted and in the evening when i was watching tv my dog would walk into the kitchen if the other one came in. It really was total and utter jealousy ha he's like my baby cant imagine not having him though!

dogbert27

Human love? Dog love? It's just love.

Love is an emotion just like happiness, sadness.

When a dog is happy are we to believe that he doesn't really know he's happy because happiness is defined human emotion that a dog doesn't understand?

My dog loves me and I love my dog. End of.

pwd

It depends on how much personality the dog has; which depends largely on how much it is socialised, especially when it's young.
A dog can bond to a cruel or cold owner, but it wouldn't display anything like love for them.

Graces7

fishfoodie wrote: »

I think one has to accept that dogs & cats come from different species, & the two species have different genetic-level instincts.

Dogs are derived from wolves, a pack animal; so they need at a fundamental level companionship.

Some cat species, do have prides, but a lot, I think more do not.

I think this is why you get the whole range of behaviours from cats; but with dogs you know that they will need to be part of the pack.

As for love; I give you 'Grey-Friars Bobby' !

KNEW someone would mention him,,, and Lassie etc.

lol!

That is why I used the term "dog like devotion" ... They bond with their people; even when that person beats and abuses them.

It is that that is "mistaken" for a "human like" love. When it is very, very different.

But how a dog;s devotion is perceived is goverened by our own needs also. What we are seeking and needing?

It worries to read posts that say dogs love more than hmans , because the poster has been let down or hurt by someone.

And yet the simply devotion of an animal, as we see in PAT dogs, caen be a healing. SIMPLE is the word here of course.

I see dogs differently from many here, being a reluctant dog owner. I would never have chosen to get a dog, you see...Situations arose and were met.

I would miss my two horribly now and they get the best care, with expertise poured in from Canada, but it is not the same maybe as choosng a wee puppy etc.

When wee dog was tiny, we fostered two other JRT puppies and I ... words fail! I used to be away days when the family were here and when I returned they would engulf me. For some reason, dogs gravitate to me.

But I am blessed with good human caring in all its facets; it is what I give to these two, especially collie, so damaged she will never be whole that occupies me. rather than her love for me, the first and only stable person in all her sad years.

And I was thrilled when expertfamilydog behaviourist said that I have done better withher than anyone else could have done.. I often feel totally inadequate to her needs.

Opps; long post.. but thank you for this thread as it has led to some fruitful thinking here.

THANK YOU!

Graces7

pwd wrote: »

It depends on how much personality the dog has; which depends largely on how much it is socialised, especially when it's young.
A dog can bond to a cruel or cold owner, but it wouldn't display anything like love for them.

But they do. That is the amazing thing and how dogs differ.

Dickens captured it well in Oliver Twist; Bill Sykes's dog that he kicked and beat . Followed him and led to his capture and death. Utterly devoted.

Sadly some abused children are the same. Love does not take account of these things in that sense.

Graces7

dogbert27 wrote: »

Human love? Dog love? It's just love.

Love is an emotion just like happiness, sadness.

When a dog is happy are we to believe that he doesn't really know he's happy because happiness is defined human emotion that a dog doesn't understand?

My dog loves me and I love my dog. End of.

Oh no; love is far, far more than an emotion. It is a giving that gives. In actions.. not some isolated feeling.

morganafay

I was just thinking, do dogs love each other? My dogs would hate to be seperated. When I took one of them to college to be groomed, the other one that's her best friend, sat outside all day in the rain according to my dad . . . and she hates the rain and never goes out in the rain.

And my old cat pined for my dog when she died. My neighbour's cat stopped eating for about a week after its friend died, and it wasn't sick or anything.

If they love each other then they must love us, in their own way. My new puppy and me have already bonded, and I definitely think she loves me.


Then again, my dad was saying "You know how much you love that puppy, I love you 100 times more" . . . and I said, "No chance, I'm not as cute as this puppy" and he said "You've only had it two days!" So I had to think, yeah he does love me more. Because if one of my dogs died, I would eventually get over it, at least mostly over it, eventually . . . but I would never get over losing a child, or a brother, sister or parent. So I obviously do love my family/friends more than my pets . . . but that doesn't mean I don't love my pets and they don't love me.


So what I mean is, just because their love is different, or less strong than human love for each other, doesn't mean it is not real. Even if you do or don't call it love . . .

morganafay

Graces7 wrote: »

But they do. That is the amazing thing and how dogs differ.

Dickens captured it well in Oliver Twist; Bill Sykes's dog that he kicked and beat . Followed him and led to his capture and death. Utterly devoted.

Sadly some abused children are the same. Love does not take account of these things in that sense.

And people in abusive relationships, or just terrible relationships can still love each other . . .