electrician apprentice - am i mad?!

LegacyUser · 28-06-2010 1:06pm #1

Hi all,

Quick question and would like to get people's opinions on it please..

I am currently working in a job where I earn approx 115k wages, its a safe job, solid and is full time. I'm top of the pile in terms of management and basically run the company. (small business dealing internationally).

Now, I'm finding that I'm burned out, the managing director (only person above me) has unreasonable expectations and I basically spend all day every day sorting crap, dealing with huge pressure and find that I'm constantly drained from work, don't enjoy weekends, downtime etc etc etc..

On the other side, I'm thinking very seriously about retraining as an electrician - something I've always wanted to do.

I know it sounds like utter madness, but I've come to the realisation that I don't need a fortune to be happy.. I don't need flash cars, tvs etc etc etc.. all I really want in life is to pay the mortgage, enjoy my family and do something I love.

I have enough for a year possibly more of a mortgage so amn't worried about that side of it and know that the wages will improve after the first year of my apprenticeship. I have one, perhaps two electricians who would take me on, and feel very positive about the option.

I have discussed it with my partner and with one or two others and all say go for it..

but, I'm worried..

am I mad?!

Thanks

Nevyn · 28-06-2010 1:15pm

I don't think it's mad but you should do a lot more research and find out what it takes to get sponsored for an apprenticeship.

barbiegirl · 28-06-2010 1:19pm

Life is about being happy and as you know money doesn't mean happiness. Do your research, talk to your wife it will have to be a joint decision, look at your outgoings, what can you give up, cut back on.
Best of luck, really hope it works out, but do remember that the building industry is not very bouyant at the moment.

dan_d · 28-06-2010 1:25pm

Look OP I understand your feeling regarding your job, very well.

But your alternate choice of career...not a good one right now. I should also tell you that the money aspect will not vastly improve after the first year. I'm in construction, I work with electricians. It's a 4 year programme for most, and the first couple of years the money isn't great. When you're trained, you'll be lucky to find a job at the moment...there is absolutely nothing out there, and don't convince yourself otherwise. Since January the electrical contractors on our job have been laying off electricians nearly every week in 10's and 20s.

Really the first thing you should do right now is some serious internet research. Look at who is hiring and who is running apprenticeship programmes. Look and see how many jobs there are out there for electricians. I know you feel you don't need a load of money, but it'll be a serious shock to your system to go from 115k a year down to maybe 400-500 eur a week, with no prospect of it getting any better soon. The days of making loads of money in a trade are long gone. Rates are being reduced and jobs cut everywhere.

I'm not trying to dump on your idea. I just think that you don't know enough about what it's like out there and how bad it is. You need to think about this a whole lot more.

LegacyUser · 28-06-2010 3:33pm

Thanks for the responses..

I should point out that this isn't something I've decided overnight.. I initially considered taking this route about 18 months ago but have since shelved it to see how things would fare out in my current employment.

I have spent a lot of time budgeting and "doing the sums" in terms of my current net wages, expenses, decisions regarding lifestyle and of course everyday living and think that once I get beyond the first year I should certainly be able to make it work for me.

Luckily, I know several electricians and two builders and while none are lighting the world on fire with work they are managing to keep things going. I have spoken with them about my thoughts and while they are supportive they pretty much echo the thoughts here - just make sure you can afford to drop to apprentice rates!

As for a long-term plan I have a few things in mind - I will get a placement if I want it for the four years, and will see after that.. I have seen first-hand that a lot will change over a few years!

I'm prepared to work on a wage of perhaps 250 a week, and have another income source also with sideline work so amn't _too_ worried about it, but at the same time want to tread carefully!

fizzynicenice · 28-06-2010 4:18pm

I'm a 2nd year apprentice sparks (22). And yes the money is SHIT.
you'll be on about 250 for your first year, 350 second year, maybe 4-450 3rd year etc etc. And you may get let go and if you DO get let go before you serve minimum time for your phase you could potentially spend years sittin waiting JUST to start back where you left off

That being said if you can save enuf cash to see you through 1st and second year and you really want to do it then absolutly go for it.

But yes, you are mad.

Wonderwall · 28-06-2010 5:08pm

I am a 3rd (nearly 4th) year apprentice sparks. Happiness is everything my friend, and money certainly does not equate to happiness, so do as you please.

If you can make it work then do, but be aware that although you seem to have electricians to take you on there's still a distinct possibility that they could go out of business. The construction sector is on its knees and is only going to get worse.. Can you afford to live on the dole? Take that into account.

I assume you're not very old, perhaps late twenties or early thirties, so time is on your side. Do not rush this, i have worked with 1st year electricians who're in their mid-forties. I would suggest staying in your current stable well paying job and saving up a lot of cash, then, and only then, should you make a transition to the apprenticeship. Just to make sure you can cope if things turn bad.

Good Luck

dr_sausage · 29-06-2010 8:21am

I am a 31yo electrician currently working for a semi-state so dont know what its like to go looking for a job on the outside and never have but I gather its not an easy thing at the moment. Quiet a few of my friends who I trained with who worked for big contract companies have been laid off and are taking any work they can get at the moment.
If I were you this is what I would do. If you are in any way friendly with a contractor or even a sparks out working on his own ask him to sponsor you. Tell him you have an interest in becoming an electrician but cant live on the wages of an appentice.
Get registered for your apprenticeship through Fas.....
In your first year of your apprenticeship you will more than likely be pulling cable, putting up cable tray, bending conduit going to the shop for the sparks so its a waste of time!
After a year you will go to Fas and spend 6 months there where you will learn everything you need to know to be an average sparks.
Two way switching light circuits,
Sockets, Fuse ratings etc, Imersions, cooker circuits, electric shower circuits... etc etc....
So when you leave Fas you will know how to wire a house without having spent any time on a site moving crap around and going to the shop.
Phase 4 is for 3 months in an I.T. If you are interested in electronics you will pass with a merit, its basically motor control, plc's, fire alarms etc.... then back to work for another year and then phase 6 is for 3 months in an I.T. wait for your completion cert and you are a sparks.

To be honest all you need is FAS for the 6 months and the I.T for the 6 months and you will be a compitent electrician. The on the job training is a three year waste of time. If you sat down with an electrician for one week every three months of your apprentiship you would get more than enough on the job training.
I really dont think you will find it hard to get an electrician to sponsor you and for you to work for free for one week every 3-4 months.
This way you could keep your current job and have the best of both worlds.
I'll set up a company and register you as my apprenticeship if you like..... just pay for the company registery fees etc etc......
Best of luck with it.....

dan_d · 29-06-2010 9:20am

wannabe_sparky wrote: »

Thanks for the responses..

I should point out that this isn't something I've decided overnight.. I initially considered taking this route about 18 months ago but have since shelved it to see how things would fare out in my current employment.

I have spent a lot of time budgeting and "doing the sums" in terms of my current net wages, expenses, decisions regarding lifestyle and of course everyday living and think that once I get beyond the first year I should certainly be able to make it work for me.

Luckily, I know several electricians and two builders and while none are lighting the world on fire with work they are managing to keep things going. I have spoken with them about my thoughts and while they are supportive they pretty much echo the thoughts here - just make sure you can afford to drop to apprentice rates!

As for a long-term plan I have a few things in mind - I will get a placement if I want it for the four years, and will see after that.. I have seen first-hand that a lot will change over a few years!

I'm prepared to work on a wage of perhaps 250 a week, and have another income source also with sideline work so amn't _too_ worried about it, but at the same time want to tread carefully!

Fair enough. I just got the impression that you thought once you'd one year done, the money increased and things would be fine. It just doesn't anymore, once you realise that.

I've been lucky in that I've worked through the worst of the recession (site engineer), but you have to remember that, in terms of Dublin and major contractors, several massive projects finished up here in the last 6 months, resulting in thousands of electricians being laid off (among others). Things have actually got worse again this year....I have friends in consultancies who've survived the last 2 years but in the last 2 weeks have gone on 3 day weeks. Projects are finished and there's nothing new coming. I myself am taking a redundancy.

I completely agree that money is not everything. I don't buy into that. But you do still need to survive, and it might not be a case of just surviving for a year or so, it could be for the next 4/5 years, or more.

dr sausage gives good advice, but at the same time, I wouldn't write off the site experience completely...I don't know if you've any previous experience of site work, and it might help to do a few weeks to get a feel for it as it's a very different world in many ways.

I suppose what I'm saying is think very long and hard before you make any move, and see if it could be done while maintaining some sort of other employment at the same time, just in case.

dr_sausage · 29-06-2010 10:27am

Hi Dan, you are right site work can be beneficial as part of an apprenticeship and I wouldn't right it off. Learning how to interact with others and character building is part of the learning process. Going down to the shop for the lads and pulling 120 square cables is something you only need to experience once however.

You can become a proficient electrician without site training. I remember the first day i went to Fas, i hadn’t a clue about two way switching, running cables or cable tray. Some of the lads in the class had done nothing but bend conduit for the previous year where I had been working on motor control and fault finding.
As I said the 6 months you will spend in FAS will teach you everything you need to know and more to get you into house bashing and commercial installation. Sadly there is no money in that anymore and the phase 4+6 will help you specialise in a field of interest that may make you some money.

ie. alarms, plc's, telecoms, renewable energy, cctv, access control etc, etc.

boobar · 29-06-2010 7:07pm

While I'm generally in favour of people following their dreams, I do have an altenative viewpoint on this.

I am also in a senior position in my current job. Some years ago, I found myself in the same position as the OP, burnt out and stressed. I strarted to look at my behaviour at work and also at the behaviour of others.

What I found was ambitious people wanted more experience and were open to me delegating tasks to them. I also found that my superiors respected me more for saying No, you don't always have to say yes.

I now try to look for enjoyment outside of work - family, friends, hobbies.

Learn to say no, enjoy the money, you've nothing to prove?

LegacyUser · 30-06-2010 12:04pm

thanks all for your continued comments.

I have actually decided to remain in my current position until perhaps April or May next year and then look to start with an electrician in June all going well. Obviously I'll haev all arranged well in advance if I go ahead with it.

boobar, you actually raise a very valid point and this is exactly what I have tried to do. Over the last 12 - 18 months spent a lot more effort on trying to balance work and life and of course spend a lot more time worrying about life and relaxation rather than work.

I work in a small company and the pressure on me is quite significant - if my boss isn't around (which he generally isn't any more) then essentially its all on me. I make the buying and selling decisions, manage the staff, look after queries from staff about customers, manage the day to day business and problems.

Additionally, because we deal internationally I am up every morning at about 6, check emails and get a few things done. I'm in the office for 8 and essentially am "snowed under" for the day.. I finish work at about 7pm and then go home and spend some of the evening relaxing and more of it working or taking calls and emails. Evenutally I go to bed around 11, but because theres so much in my head I don't sleep until at least 1 - 1.30.

I don't really get weekends off, holidays are almost a non-event (or my phone rings all day and I get emails all day which need to be dealt with).

My wages are good, great even.. but they're not worth it.

As an overall thing I can certainly appreciate that having an assistant or perhaps someone to work along side me would be good, I delegate a lot of tasks, say no as much as I can but the reality is that I just don't get passionate about my work any more... I don't hate it, I don't resent it and some days get great satisfaction out of it, but as an overall thing I just know I'd rather be doing something else.

I've almost decided that this is something I want to do and the more I think about it the more it makes sense to me, I feel my attitude changing, I feel happier and am more positive about the next 12 months, 10 years even.

Thanks all for your comments and thoughts - I always feel its great to get input from third partys and is perhaps even the best advice to explore most carefully but overall I think my decision is made...

Now I've just gotta save like hell for a few months!

dan_d · 30-06-2010 2:16pm

Best of luck OP, and hopefully things pick up to give you the chance to try something else!!.

As someone who is on the end of the phone all day while out and about, can I just add to Boobar's point...you need to draw a line and stop answering the phone once you leave the office. You're there from 6am to 7pm. There is nothing that cannot wait til the next day. We've dealt with a firm in the US for the last 2 years, and they are simply not available before 2pm our time, and we are not available after a certain time here. And the project still got completed. You are entitled to have a life, you already give more time than required to your job every day.13 hours a day - you are either doing something wrong or you've far too much work to do (and I think you know the answer to that!)

There will be complaining and whinging initially, but for your own sake this is something you need to do. People will eventually realise that you are just not available after a certain time and will learn to either wait or get you before that time. It's your life to live OP, you make the rules!!!!

Good luck!

Andrea B. · 30-06-2010 9:36pm

I understand your where you are coming from.

I had progressed in to management role with electrical trade under my belt.

Went back to trade as self-employed for "quality of life" aspect, coupled with geographic move and personal situation offering an opportunity to change.

Now back in management after two years of that. Beats coming home with aches and pains in places you never thought they would develop, and spending the rest of the time chasing pence.

This is not knocking the electrical trade. An excellent foundation trade for troubleshooting and systematic thinking development.

Do you want to be in an attic dragging cables at 48 years of age, cursing the day you left the 115k job?

Can't figure your exact reason (bar leaving existing heavy workload), but is it possible that you want to see a physical creation/substance/solution after your days work?

If so, and based on your present earnings, I would suggest seeing a career coach or other professional before deciding on such a move to potentially 30% of your present earnings.

I say this, as it is the people you know who are saying "go for it". Get some non-objective opinions (well you've started by posting here :rolleyes:)

Also; you may actually enjoy working with electrics as a hobby. Be careful, as many people hate what they enjoyed as a leisure activity once they brought it to a professional activity.

Hope this helps.

boobar · 01-07-2010 12:52pm

Best of luck OP,

I completely understand your reasoning and I know the organisations differ and that there isn't one time management solution to fix every problem.

You seem to have given this plenty of thought.

Money isn't everything. Best of luck to you for the future.

Boobar

LegacyUser · 03-07-2010 12:44pm

dr_sausage wrote: »

I am a 31yo electrician currently working for a semi-state so dont know what its like to go looking for a job on the outside and never have but I gather its not an easy thing at the moment. Quiet a few of my friends who I trained with who worked for big contract companies have been laid off and are taking any work they can get at the moment.
If I were you this is what I would do. If you are in any way friendly with a contractor or even a sparks out working on his own ask him to sponsor you. Tell him you have an interest in becoming an electrician but cant live on the wages of an appentice.
Get registered for your apprenticeship through Fas.....
In your first year of your apprenticeship you will more than likely be pulling cable, putting up cable tray, bending conduit going to the shop for the sparks so its a waste of time!
After a year you will go to Fas and spend 6 months there where you will learn everything you need to know to be an average sparks.
Two way switching light circuits,
Sockets, Fuse ratings etc, Imersions, cooker circuits, electric shower circuits... etc etc....
So when you leave Fas you will know how to wire a house without having spent any time on a site moving crap around and going to the shop.
Phase 4 is for 3 months in an I.T. If you are interested in electronics you will pass with a merit, its basically motor control, plc's, fire alarms etc.... then back to work for another year and then phase 6 is for 3 months in an I.T. wait for your completion cert and you are a sparks.

To be honest all you need is FAS for the 6 months and the I.T for the 6 months and you will be a compitent electrician. The on the job training is a three year waste of time. If you sat down with an electrician for one week every three months of your apprentiship you would get more than enough on the job training.
I really dont think you will find it hard to get an electrician to sponsor you and for you to work for free for one week every 3-4 months.
This way you could keep your current job and have the best of both worlds.
I'll set up a company and register you as my apprenticeship if you like..... just pay for the company registery fees etc etc......
Best of luck with it.....

having read ur post twice to make sure I understood what ur saying , I sincerely hope that ur employment as an electrician with the semi state body continues long into the future as ur idea of a competent electrician would give me the impression that the demands made on u as an electrician in ur daily duties are limited. i have done the apprentice training, the night classes , worked with contractors in Ireland and abroad and am now working with a large company and wouldn't last very long if in ur opinion all i needed was 'FAS for the 6 months and the I.T for the 6 months '. I thought all cowboy and rouge tradespeople had gone west once the recession had kicked in or have I my head buried in the sand.

Victor · 03-07-2010 1:09pm

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

having read ur post twice to make sure I understood what ur saying , I sincerely hope that ur employment as an electrician with the semi state body continues long into the future as ur idea of a competent electrician would give me the impression that the demands made on u as an electrician in ur daily duties are limited. i have done the apprentice training, the night classes , worked with contractors in Ireland and abroad and am now working with a large company and wouldn't last very long if in ur opinion all i needed was 'FAS for the 6 months and the I.T for the 6 months '. I thought all cowboy and rouge tradespeople had gone west once the recession had kicked in or have I my head buried in the sand.

Hi, can you avoid using txt spk, please? Its not fair on people reading your posts.

RodSteel · 03-07-2010 5:09pm

I know of 8 electricians, some of them close friends, 5 of them are unemployed now, the remaining 3 are on reduced working hours. I myself served my time as an electrician but went and did further education to get out of the game because when you are in your thirties, building sites in the winter are not the place to be. My mates are the same, most of them are in their 30's are complaining of physical fatigue plus mental stress of job uncertainty. A number of them have bad backs and other physical complaints of years of manual labour. Most of them, I would say have varying levels of depression, I kid you not.
Dont get me wrong, it wasn't always bad, doing an aprenticeship back in the day was fun, learning a new skill, working with a good bunch of lads and the added benefit of youth exuberance made some good memories, but the shine wears off as the years wear on.
You will work very hard under noisy, cold and unsanitory conditions and you will wonder what the hell am I doing for so little reward.
My advice is the same as what someone else has said. Rexamine your schedule, working constraints and reorganise yourself and your situation to maximise your social/free time.
The grass is not always greener and I guarantee you the grass you are looking at is already burnt.
Many people who have some crisis/boredom in their life will change jobs, move house, maybe even have a baby(for example), but really those choices are not the solutions to their problems.
Try and address the problems/issues you are having in your own job first and if this really fails, seek something else but electrician as a career nowadays is a big big mistake.

mikemac · 03-07-2010 11:29pm

You earn 115k and want to give up your job to be an electrician?
Normally OP, I'll the first to post on these threads to follow your dreams and don't be a slave to your job.

However...
An electrician sure is a rewarding job but do you want to kneeling in cramped spaces and dragging cable when you are 55?
I sure remember when tradesmen wouldn't get out of bed for wages that most would dream of and well done to them.
However times have changed and unemployment is huge in that sector.

I understand you are feeling stressed, hey check my username :cool:
Have you considered promoting one of your team to assistant manager and delegate tasks to them?
Or even get a personal assistant to help you out?

What I would recommend before you quit is take two weeks annual leave and work as an unpaid volunteer with an electrician. Just to get a feel for it and see if it's what you want.

And if it is, then sure do what you want to do and good luck with it

Firetrap · 03-07-2010 11:37pm

What caught my eye was your reference to your wages being good, great even. I dunno about anyone else here but if I was earning €115k a year I'd think I'd won the Lotto.

I do wonder if your unhappiness in your current job is making you idealise the life of an electrician? Perhaps you need to look at what you're doing at the moment and see if there are any changes you can make to your working so that you're not so miserable.

AnonMous · 04-07-2010 9:47am

Hey Op,

All I would say to you is that "happiness is a means of transport, not a destination" so if being an electrician will ensure your life long happiness, go for it.

There is no point wasting your life away in a job you don't like, no matter how big the wage!!

Best of luck

Bottle_of_Smoke · 04-07-2010 11:02am

Wouldn't do it. I worked in credit control with small businesses from 2005-2008. Electricians have been seriously hit by the construction recession.

zxcvbnm1 · 04-07-2010 12:00pm

you'd be absolutely insane yo do it in my book.

the reality is, after a while being an electriciam will be just like any other job. I don't know where you're coming from glorifying the trade as soem really satisfying job.

If you wanted to get into music or something then i could understand. But an electrician? Bizarre.

My advice might be try liviung off what you would be earning as an electrician for the next 3 months as a test. See how you enjoy it.

Why don't you get a less stressful job in your field instead that pays maybe only half what you are on now?

Piriz · 04-07-2010 4:17pm

hi OP,
there is a lot of 'go follow your dream, money isn't everything' sentiment on here. But if the dream is a nightmare and the money is non-existent this sentiment is misguided.

Ok you run a business..this is great, you should know some basic economics then: lets start with supply and demand:

Consider the amount of construction activity; commercial & domestic electrical work each year during the boom and the amount of electricians to cater for this activity...

Now consider how little construction is going on in ireland during these times.. The result is a large number of qualified and experienced electricians are now unemployed.. the construction industry federation say another 100,000 people could loose their jobs from the construction sector...there are very few large construction projects in the pipeline..

any position that does arise is heavily sought after.

An electrical contractor who recruits a first year apprentice would have to be some what confident of future work for the next four years for this apprenticeship to be of any real value to you...unfortunately this is not the case at the moment in my opinion due to the massive downturn in construction..

if you do find an apprenticeship with a company it is likely you will be laid off before you complete it, this may happen several times & you may never complete it or it could take forever..i.e. being on first or second year pay rate after 3,4 or 5 years will be frustrating..this is a reality for many people in many trade apprenticeships.. however im sure there is exceptions to my views on this..

but i think this is a fair summary of the situation you'll be facing..
consider other options than electrical apprenticeships.. it is a really bad economic situation out there, employment opportunities are awful especially in construction and it'll probably get worse before it gets better...

Current trends in the electrical trade are:

Lots of domestic work is carried out on the black market...the "oh i know an unemployed electrician who will do that on the cheap for ya"
this takes business from the legitimate tradespeople who are already struggeling post boom.

Existing businesses are having to be very competitive with quotes undercutting the competition just to keep afloat...there is no longer much profit in this area.

I know lots of electricians who began ten years ago... they had their good times and many have deviated into lift engineering and had to hop around a few different companies due to redundancy aswell as being unemployed, one friend has had to pack in this tools and leave the trade all together as he could not find anything...these are guys who have 10 years experience too..experience ranging from large developments to renovations and everything else..

If you go do an apprenticeship and are lucky enough to complete it...your employer might not want to keep you on when he can get a guy with 10 years experience and pay him the same sum of money..

I would imagine rates of pay will drop im time too...its nolonger competitive or feasible to pay current rates..

Money isn't everything!!! tell that to the electricians on the scratcher!

Basically you have missed the boat! by about 10 years...you'll never get the experience to compete...as a boss yourself im sure you recruit staff, would you employ you newly qualified or the guy whos got 10years experience under him!

just get a different job with less pressure...electrical work is not the right move..

I've worked with electricians a few times when i was unemployed during college summers etc...its a pretty boring uninspiring job...how do i get one end of the cable here and the other end here kinda sums it up if you ask me..
its not very creative...anyway thats for you to decide...

all im saying is you have missed the boat...analyse this with your business acumen you should see that this is a non runner!

not what you want to hear i know but i hope this helps make the right move in the end..

JonathanAnon · 04-07-2010 6:43pm

Why dont you do a related course at night ? You may find that you dont like it as much as you think.. And to give up a safe 115k job, on a whim, for a job that
a) wont pay as much (if at all in this climate)
b) you may not in fact like (as was said above, a lot of boring cable dragging etc etc)
is madness, particularly if you have dependents.

Maybe learning how to do the basics (do courses, read books, etc etc) yourself might be enough to satisfy your electrical yearning, and you can continue with your electrical earning.

electrician apprentice - am i mad?!

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