i am who i am....

u_c_thesecond

im 24 years old. irish born and bred and v proud of who i am. my surname(my dad) comes from a scotish backround but ive checked and it was in the 1800s and as my familys been here over 100 years i consider myself irish.

tonight my brother came to me and told me that we are english. apparantly my mams great grandad was in the british army. i feel sick. i would never in my life want to be english. i know what they did to our country(1916 was my specialist subject in my leaving cert history) and i keep cryin.

im sorry if this sounds petty but i love my nationality and have accepted that im a bit scottish but i am irish in my head, and now im being told that my whole life and singing the songs i have and saying the national anthem is a lie.

the thought of not being irish makes me sick , ive already gotten sick from the fright, sorry but its like being told your prides wrong and should be changed:(
im irish in my heart i feel sick:(

franklyon

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

im 24 years old. irish born and bred and v proud of who i am. (

i fail to see the issue here, you said it yourself you are Irish born and bred, so you are Irish. End of story

ergonomics

If you Mum's Great Grandad was in the British Army how does that make you English?

u_c_thesecond

franklyon wrote: »

i fail to see the issue here, you said it yourself you are Irish born and bred, so you are Irish. End of story

the issue is being told your not who you are, that ur fiath in your countrys not real. im sorry if you dont see the signafiance(sp) but its really upset me.

u_c_thesecond

ergonomics wrote: »

If you Mum's Great Grandad was in the British Army how does that make you English?

i dont know but she has spoken to a few family members and we are not irish

John Mason

i found recently that my great grand father was in the british army from 1901 to 1919 when he was discharged and went on to become a Sargent in the irish army.

last week i got his war records from the british army and to say that i am proud of what he done is an understatement (well, may be except for the two charges of drunkiness ) and i am really annoyed that his medals have disappeared and i am only finding out about this now.

i really dont understand what your issue is - you are irish, you were born in ireland, you have an irish passport

what exactly is the problem

Nevyn

Look your being a mite melodramatic about this.
If your born and bred here and so were your parents then thats it.
My great grandfather was in the british army also, back then there was no work and he left here and enlisted.
A lot of irish men did over the years, never made then 1 bit less irish.

John Mason

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

i dont know but she has spoken to a few family members and we are not irish

oh sorry, i missed that so you were born in england then? well, if thats the case, you can apply for irish citizenship then.

if you were born in ireland i really dont see the issue.

i have done a lot of research on my family history, one side is originally Palatine german - does that make me german?

both my grandfathers were church of ireland - does that mean that i am in fact church of ireland and i shouldnt have bothered with all the catholic lessons in school?

banquo

Why exactly does this matter? Are we still at war?

ztoical

My grandmother is from Liverpool, she's lived in Dublin since the 1940's but never gave up her British passport, the fact that she's english doesn't make me any more or less Irish. Singing songs, playing GAA or just being told by other people doesn't make you Irish. My cousin is adopted, my aunt adopted her in South Africa some 30 odd years ago when she was a baby and as far as she and my family are concerned she's as Irish as the rest of us. My friend's dad is asian, her mother from limerick, she was born and raised in Ireland, just cus she doesn't look "Irish" doesn't make her any less Irish then you or me.

Frankly if something like this really bothers you you have bigger issues about your identity.

ergonomics

Think of any form you fill out that requires you to say your Nationality. If your parents were born abroad and you were born here would you just say Irish or would you say "Well my Mum is English, my Dad is from France and I was born in Ireland so I'm English-French-Irish"? No, you say you're Irish.

Going back through generations might show people being born in different countries but it's where you born that matters. Even if you do count past generations it doesn't really make that much of a difference. Your great-grandad may have served in the British Army and done horrible things but he could just have easily have been born and raised in Ireland and be a serial killer. Would you be as devastated then?

Esel

Do a bit more research and you may find that your mam's great grandad's ancestors came from Ireland. Regardless, you are Irish, full stop.

knitwit

Hi OP,

I think you are letting your feelings spiral out of control on this one. Try to think realistically about it. Your great great grandad was in the english army? Think - that must have been a long time ago, I'm guessing pre 1916. We were part of the british empire then, which means he was in his national army! This is not something to be ashamed about. Nor does it make you 'english'.
Look, we could all delve back a few generations and find stuff we don't like. My friend's grandad is a convicted pedophile, it doesn't make her any less of a person.
If my surname was Fitzgerald ( which I think was brought here by the vikings) does that mean I'm norweigan and not Irish? Of course not.
The main thing is you're proud to be Irish. Don't bother looking to the past and to people who were probably dead before you were born.
Some people could probably trace their ancestry back to when they were living in crannogs but wouldn't have an iota of pride in their country. You're more Irish than them.

ztoical

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

tonight my brother came to me and told me that we are english. apparantly my mams great grandad was in the british army. i feel sick. i would never in my life want to be english. i know what they did to our country(1916 was my specialist subject in my leaving cert history) and i keep cryin.

You didn't study the subject very well then did you? At the time your great grandad would have been in the British army we would all have been British as the country we now know as Ireland hadn't yet been created and wouldn't be until 1949.

Lots of Irish men [and women] went and served in the British army during world war 2 cus even though we weren't part of the war many Irish people wanted to fight against the Nazis. And anyway pretty much everyone in the country can trace their family back to the many English plantations or the arrival of Cromwell.

needaname

Your Irish at heart and thats all that really matters. You were born and bred here in Ireland and the fact that your mams great grandad was in the british army does not change who you are. You are still Irish at heart and should still be very proud to be Irish.

u_c_thesecond

ztoical wrote: »

You didn't study the subject very well then did you? At the time your great grandad would have been in the British army we would all have been British as the country we now know as Ireland hadn't yet been created and wouldn't be until 1949.

Lots of Irish men [and women] went and served in the British army during world war 2 cus even though we weren't part of the war many Irish people wanted to fight against the Nazis. And anyway pretty much everyone in the country can trace their family back to the many English plantations or the arrival of Cromwell.

i studied the 1916 rising- world war one was 1914 to 1918 . world war 2 was 1939 to 1945

the fact my great grandad fought to stop our nation matters to me. id rather die than denounce my faith(not religious). however i do see the points people have made, maybe i am overreacting.

my brother was born in england in the 1960s but hes is irish and v patriotic.(he was born on a holiday a month early)

maybe i am going a bit nuts in thinking that the fact my past relitaves not being irish changes me, however am i being naive. i know 2 polish people that have been in the country 3 months and they had a baby girl 2 weeks ago- and the babys considered "IRISH". to me thats not right but maybe thats seen as racist as my brother who was born in england has both irish and english passports.

maybe i need to think

banquo

There is a legal Irish and a cultural Irish. You are both.

ztoical

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

i studied the 1916 rising- world war one was 1914 to 1918 . world war 2 was 1939 to 1945

So you just studied the 1916 easter rising and no history before or after? How did you manage that given that you would need to cover Irish history before 1916 in order to understand why the rising happened and one would assume you covered some of the history after in order to understand the effect the 1916 rising had given that we'd had plenty of rising before but this one had an effect none of the others had. If it was your special subject I assume that was for the leaving cert history exam which I'm pretty sure still covers Irish and european history up until after world war 2 so unless you only answered one question on the test you should have covered all those areas. You might want to explore beyond leaving cert level history before posting about "understanding" something. History is not black and white so take off the rose coloured glasses. Did you notice in your 'study' of the rising that one of those involved, Éamon de Valera, was born in new york? His father was Cuban yet I'm sure pretty much everyone in this country if asked would say he was Irish.

The fact remains many Irish people helped keep this country under british rule, hell we invited the english in in the first place, doesn't make them evil, doesn't make the english evil. I know plenty of Indians who are very fond of the British and they treated the Indians as bad if not worse then the Irish.

!!!

I honestly can't believe this thread. I actually laughed out loud.

Maybe I'm ignorant/living under a rock but I honestly can't believe anyone would care in any way about this.

:L:L:L

ztoical

youtube vids are not used in this forum.

Taltos

HI OP.

You are Irish.
But you have English heiritage - not surprising - as if you go back far enough many of us have a mix of viking, saxon, spanish, french, celtic, pik, gaul, roman etc heiritage. Yours just happens to be a bit more recent.

In terms of your relative serving the British army - well that was done back then, rightly or wrongly - hindsight is wonderful - but at the time maybe he was proud of punch for serving the monarchy, maybe he had doubts, maybe he hated it, maybe he only did it to put food on the table. However - your hatred of this - well to be honest is a bit disrespectful of your families heiritage.

The bigger question here I see is why you are so abhorent of the possibility of having a flavour of British blood in you. As long as we allow our history to control our hatred instead of learning from it we will be bound to repeat it. There are probably more English people in England with Irish heiritage then Irish here with English. I mean - how many of our ancestors - emigrated, sought work, cleaned chimneys etc Just look at Liverpool ffs.

This thread does kind of annoy me as I (don't I always) have an in-law who is happy to say he "hates the Brits" - despite his mother emigrating from there when she was a child. He never got that he was hurting her and she loved him too much to tell him to cop on. Even now if you say it to him you can be guaranteed of a hate filled rant. Sad really.

Please analyse why you are so anti-British. Personally in my travels I have met a huge mix of people around the world. Yes I have met some ignorant English folk, but I have also met some friends from there that are friends for life. In terms of ignorant Irish folk - a lot more common than I like. And when I hear folk rant on about the "hated English" and how they are out to get us - I mean wtf?

Before folk jump over me for being anti-nationalistic etc - my family on my Dad's side were involved in the Rising - only a small part - but we are happy to know they fought for this Country. However, time moves on - and we have to learn from our past so that we don't repeat it. Gawds sake - my folks lived over there in the 50s working - thankfully they came back with good memories, in the 70s I even visited some distant relations that had been there so long you would swear they were 100% British - accents totally lost.

Just think about it a bit. Please.

RealistSpy

Hi Op

You are you Irish as you said.

On the other hand as someone said what does that matter? We are all humans right? This attitude you have about the English is going to be carried to your kids and they will have the same feelings towards the English.

Is this the 21st Century? Are we ever going to move on?

Anyways mate GL.

dory

Just remember, people were starving at the time, they would have shined the Queen's shoes for some food, never mind joining the army. Loads of people's ancestors fought for the British army, mine included. Doesn't make me one little bit less Irish (I'm an Irish teacher, dad works in GAA etc.)

I also have a British surname. Again, irrelevant.

gandalf

If you studied history as you claim you have then you would have realised an awful lot of Irish Men fought for the British Army over the years including quite a number in World War 1 with the expectation of Home Rule afterwards.

In my opinion based on your input into this thread your idea of being Irish is quite shallow and black and white. Life is different shades of grey.

LegacyUser

Hey Op. You said your mothers great-granddad was in the British Army? That makes him your great-great-granddad. Everybody has 16 great-great-grandparents. So, only 1 out of 16 of your great-great-grandparents, as far as you are aware, was in any way English. And even then you are not sure; as other people have said, many people who were Irish to the bone were compelled to fight in the British army because they needed to earn money. They were very different times back then. Either way, you are still Irish..more so than the average Irish person nowadays I should add.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Cop the f*ck on. Your anti-englishness is sickening. The British colonised Ireland in the past so you hate English people? You wouldn't even get that crap from the Real IRA.

Not saying anything else because you're probably trolling.

Dizzyblonde

Huge numbers of Irish men joined the British army down through the years in order to earn money. Principles and patriotism don't put food in mouths.

My maternal grandfather was of English descent and left the Irish army to join the British army and fight in World War 2. We're very proud of him, and I'd never see myself as anything other than 100% Irish. Not that it matters all that much - it's time we let all that old bitterness go and moved forward.

dudara

What is scary about all this is how easily you are letting something so far in the past influence you. If your beliefs and tenets were truly firm, then this wouldn't shake you.

So this leads me to ask the question - why is having an Irish identity SO important to you?

To quite honest, if you go back past 1920, then technically all our ancestors were British. How does that square with your view of yourself?

I simply am Irish - no one can change that about me. You need to realise that for yourself.

pickarooney

I think the OP raises a very valid point, if you look past the way the issue is presented. It's a discussion that's mostly outside the scope of PI though, so there's no point dwelling on it too long here.

OP, I think you might be better focusing on the positive aspects of your nationality rather than what you currently apepar to be doing - i.e. your pride in your Irishness stemming directly from your antipathy towards the British people of previous generations. What your grandparents or great-grandparents have done or not done is, while not entirely irrelevant, much less important than what you do in your life and by extension what your children and your children's children do. When the time comes (if it hasn't alread) try to pass on the positives about being Irish to your descendants rather than all the negatives that often come with the package of the political past.

Imhof Tank

How could anyone assume that their every last relative – 16 great, great grandparents, 32 great, great, great grandparents etc were every last one of them 100% pure Irish gaels? I would say less than 0.1% of the population could claim that to be the case.

I think you are protesting too much OP - are you sure you are not secretly intrigued/ pleased by this news; maybe always felt a little jealous of the brother with his 2 passports.

salutations

You obviously didnt study your specialist subject too well or you couldn't have helped but notice Padraig Pearse's father was an English Protestant. Did that make him less Irish?

Eve_Dublin

I come from a fairly Republican family. Both of my grandads fought in the IRB and one of my grandads played a very important role in the War of Independence BUT my father was in the British Army in the 1960s as he lived in England and there was conscription at the time and he had no choice but to join. He was very ashamed of this aspect of his past and found it hard to reconcile with his own father´s history. When he left the army, he married my mother and they moved to London where he had two children who are both entitled to British passports. We all grew up with a very warped view of the British and it was only when I went to live there, made English friends and fell in love with an English man did I realise how brainwashed I was and essentially what an ignorant idiot I´d been all these years.

The irony is my surname is as British as they come (although I´ve done my research and it actually has Scottish roots and not English, contrary to popular belief). I remember when I was a teenager I used to tell people that the English forced my family to change our original surname or we would be killed. Completely ridiculous. I felt the same kind of shame about my dad being in the British army that you feel about your family´s past.

Fact of the matter is England has been good to my family. My dad got a job there when he couldn´t get one here but still he carried that begrudgery around. I got my degree and worked there for 2 years after graduating and was always treated with respect and kindness. I met the occasional idiot but I could count them on 3 fingers.

You´ll be happy to hear my dad has chilled out an awful lot in his old age and sees that hate will get us nowhere.

I´m proud to be Irish but I´d never blame the British today for what was done in the past. We need to move on and show the world were not victims. It´s a bit of a joke at this stage when we equate our "struggle" (I´m talking people from the Republic) with other countries who really are suffering. We need to build a massive bridge and move on. This is what your generation should be remembered for...the ones that took a grown up attitude to all this hatred and ridiculousness and moved on so other nations will look at us and see that being Irish is not about being part of a nation with a "victim complex" but a nation that can define themselves not by the past, but by the present.

Don´t let this stupid cycle continue OP.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Cop the f*ck on. Your anti-englishness is sickening. The British colonised Ireland in the past so you hate English people? You wouldn't even get that crap from the Real IRA.

Not saying anything else because you're probably trolling.

+1

Honestly, all I have to say is, if this is what you consider a problem, you lead a charmed life. Normally I'd say every issue is valid but honestly? Even if being English was such a big issue for you, how does what you found out make you any less Irish? I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find any person in Ireland with fewer links to England than that.