Altruism - Is it possible?

Dirty Frank

Altruism

Is genuine altruism possible? Me and a friend both came to the conclusion that it is not, ultimately people are selfish (harsh!). People give at least to make themselves feel better or to be seen as being better in the eyes of someone else, even spontaneous generosity (giving someone else your umbrella for example, the giver gains satisfaction in the act of giving). Is true altruism, giving without recieving anything possible? Convince me.

Joe1919

Take two sentences......
1.....I want to help other people.
2.....I want to help myself.
Both sentences are similar from the subjective point of view i.e. the person wants to act and in acting will do what he want in both cases. However, if we take an objective view, and look at the object of the sentence, we see in the first place the object of the person's want or desire is to 'help other people' whereas in the second place it's to 'help myself.' We see then that when we take an objective viewpoint of Psychological Egoism, (that there are no altruist actions), it runs into very serious trouble as a thesis as we now distinguish between the subjective 'I want to act' and the objective 'what it is I want to do'.
In the first sentence, the person values other people, 'what matters to me' is other people, and I am motivated to help other people and any action taken to help others may be reasonably seen as altruistic. In the second case the person values themselves, 'what matters to me' is myself, and I am motivated to help myself and any action taken to help myself can be seen as an egotistical action of self interest.

If you have still doubts about the above argument saying that in both cases the person has desires and wants, and wants to satisfy these. But this is really a circular argument. It's like saying 'I want what I desire' and 'I desire what I want' and the supporter of Psychological Egoism (that there are no altruist actions), when considering moral motivation, never really sees beyond his subjective self to the object of his desire (which in the case of altruism, is to help other people). Indeed if all actions were egoistic, we would not need the word 'Egoism' The word egoism only makes sense when contrasted against the word non-egoism (or altruism) in the same way as good against bad, hot against cold. Supporter of Psychological Egoism (that there are no altruist actions), are guilty of "The fallacy of the Suppressed Correlative" or trying to suppress one side of an opposite pair of words.

L31mr0d

altruism is definitely possible.

I think you are confusing terms. Altruism does not require a completely unselfish act. One can be altruistic while also being selfish. They are not mutually exclusive.

Now if you defined your question as: "is a completely unselfish act possible?" then no, it is not, imo.

I can be unselfish to an extent while also receiving something from the action in return.

The fallacy here is to imagine being selfish and unselfish as being binary. There are varying degrees to each, the same with light and dark, good and bad... etc.

A person who is mostly unselfish and only receives psychological benefits to their actions would be deemed altruistic, even if they selfishly act altruistic because it makes them feel good.

looksee

What about the person who, seeing someone else in trouble, drowning, perhaps, immediately jumps in the help them, before he has even had time to consider it. He might be thinking 'this will make me look/feel good' but equally he could just think 'there is a person in trouble' and react.

The definition of altruism seems to involve unselfishness, so unless there is a technical meaning within psychology, the question about true altruism is reasonable.

philologos

I believe so, sometimes it takes thinking about a higher cause though. It is certainly incredibly difficult to be altruistic, but I think people can truly care and be concerned for one another if they have the right mindset.

Me Me

I suppose we all have to be selfish to a certain extent in order to be unselfish if that makes sense:), otherwise we wouldn't be physically capable of helping others..

raah!

I think it just depends mainly on your pre-stated intentions, like joe said there. If you don't believe people can control themselves consciously and are governed more by subconscious things then that is kinda leading to determinism.

I don't know much about the psychology part, but I think a person who doesn't think or use reason to determine whether or not to do a certain action, in the light of their conception of right and wrong is then acting selfishly. If you say that people hav to survive and propogate their genes, then things like empathy can easily be explained in these terms.