Mind Matters, Mental Health Society

lilmissprincess

Hi,

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this, so apologies if not!

I'm trying to set up a mental health society in UCC, to hopefully start around Freshers Week 2010. Under the name Mind Matters, the hope is to provide information to UCC students affected by and interested in Mental Health issues, but also to provide a support community, not unlike that of the LGBT society, where people affected by and interested in mental health issues can meet in a social setting and make friends who have this in common.

We're not trying to make support groups or give genuine medical advice, but to provide information and reduce the loneliness which can be associated with mental health issues.

At the moment we're trying to collect signatures over the internet, as its proving more difficult than it would in the college year. If you'd be interested in seeing the society set up, please email your name, student number, year and faculty to mindmattersucc@gmail.com.

Facebook page for group: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Mind-Matters-Society-Proposed/124022594305267

Thanks!

LMP

KnifeWRENCH

lilmissprincess wrote: »

Hi,

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this, so apologies if not!

Nah, it's fine. It's a college society; you're not advertising products or services or anything.

And for what it's worth, I think it's an excellent idea! Already emailed my signature.

Plautus

As a UCC student who suffered from Depression I felt the university was wonderfully accommodating and understanding; and a society like this seems like a great addition to the services already in place.

Societies are mainly about getting to meet new people, make new friends and bond/have good times through shared experiences; be that video games or politics or whatever so this society definitely meets that criterion.

And I don't think it can be argued that anything that promotes more awareness of mental health (and especially the services and accommodations available in U.C.C. for students with mental illness) is a bad thing. I know that when I was feeling very low and, frankly, frightened, that it would have been a weight off my mind to know about the Disability Support Service and the Consultant Psychiatrist at the Student Health Center. Those two things alone led me back to (near) full health.


Anyway, signature sent! And I'd love to get involved in this society next year and help out if possible (hopefully coming back to do an MA) but it'd be great just to meet people with an experience of mental illness themselves and the difficulties of trying to explain said illness to Joe Public which often has a very poor understanding and/or judgmental attitude

Max001

I'm glad there have been positive experiences in terms of mental health and university authorities. I've personally spoken to several students in the last several months who were advised strongly not to register with the DSS, owing to predujice against mental health conditions on the part
of some academics and administrators. I never expected to hear this in a learning institution in the 21st century in a developed country, but it certainly took the 'shine' off UCC for me.

Plautus

I can't speak for other people, obviously, but 'prejudice' might only be perceived on their part. Some disabilities, such as mental illness or autistic spectrum disorders, can leave those people in question feeling very frustrated, especially if they're in the process of trying to sort out their situation, and any delays or hiccups might not be taken too well. I'd be very reluctant though to call that 'prejudice', as you can imagine.

You've got to understand the DSS' point of view too: there are plenty of people who come to them without letters of referral from say consultants, educational psychologists or whoever: sometimes (I hate to say it) because they're trying to play the system. It might seem like they're disbelieving you but they have to ask for the documentation and/or supporting statements that you are a bona fide case.

Furthermore, as regards prejudice from administrative or academic staff: I find this difficult to quantify. How have these people you mention encountered a tangible prejudice from those two groups once they registered with the DSS? Have they been unfairly marked? Have they been sneered at? Did people speak to them dismissively? Because frankly, admin staff were doing the latter at least to me even before I registered with the DSS or anything was wrong with me! So it might not be a calculated prejudice. It might be poor people skills.

In the alternative, if somebody actually came out and said something like 'you're a no-good waster with a made-up illness' or 'you're a headbanger' or something like that then that would be unambiguous. I just find it incredible that anyone would say that though. And if they did - report it! DSS have always fought my corner in relation to whatever needed to be done to help me get through the year: they wrote letter after letter to relevant people. I just wouldn't have been able to do it all myself.

I have to say, I came to the DSS with a referral from a psychiatrist. Again, I think that there may be a big misunderstanding amongst people who perhaps have a disability but don't have the referral or assessment and they then think the DSS is being dismissive of them when same is asked for.

Max001

I'm not entering into a debate with you, nor posting again here and not getting into specifics of other's experiences as that would betray confidences, however from the anecdotes related to me first hand I'd say prejudice covers it.
Prejudice - An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts. A preconceived preference or idea.
The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.
I will add this though. When I raised my own disability with my research supervisor, that person advised me strongly NOT to officially inform UCC
nor register as disabled, as this would likely prejudice the assessment of
my thesis. However my supervisor, a UCC academic of long standing and widely respected, has been very supportive through a very difficult year and I am grateful for this guidance as I can only believe the advice was correct.

Plautus

@ Max001 I just think that those are very serious claims for you and your supervisor to make and they require evidence if they're to be made. It's not my experience at all: registering with the DSS has allowed me to reach my full academic potential. My final year dissertation was awarded a high first.

Is your supervisor not marking your thesis together with external examiners? If so it's very hard to see where prejudice would enter into it if not from him or the other people he surely would have some influence over to see that they weren't prejudiced against you. I just find it all bizarre, frankly! No offence intended.

Max001

Plautus wrote: »

@ Max001 I just think that those are very serious claims for you and your supervisor to make and they require evidence if they're to be made.

Who says? Are we in a court? I'm not dismissive of your positive experience, so why can't you be as open minded? Gonna bite my
tongue massively here and that truely is the last I'm saying apart
from the fact that I find your reactions very curious.
I'm not judging.

Plautus

My reactions aren't curious, believe me; just shocked and wanting answers like anybody would because what you're saying is serious. The reason I'm reluctant to accept your negative experience is obviously because it's what you've been told second hand; it's not your first hand experience and if what I'm saying is true then our accounts are mutually exclusive.

I intend no malice. I'm not inferring you'd be done for libel: it's just that I'm afraid that what you're saying would scare away people from getting the support they need and for that reason you should substantiate a serious allegation. That's all man.

rebel girl 15

lilmissprincess wrote: »

Hi,

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this, so apologies if not!

I'm trying to set up a mental health society in UCC, to hopefully start around Freshers Week 2010. Under the name Mind Matters, the hope is to provide information to UCC students affected by and interested in Mental Health issues, but also to provide a support community, not unlike that of the LGBT society, where people affected by and interested in mental health issues can meet in a social setting and make friends who have this in common.

We're not trying to make support groups or give genuine medical advice, but to provide information and reduce the loneliness which can be associated with mental health issues.

At the moment we're trying to collect signatures over the internet, as its proving more difficult than it would in the college year. If you'd be interested in seeing the society set up, please email your name, student number, year and faculty to mindmattersucc@gmail.com.

Facebook page for group: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Mind-Matters-Society-Proposed/124022594305267

Thanks!

LMP

Absolutely brilliant idea, just emailed my signature! Best of luck with it! I'll be doing work on mental health issues in a couple of modules next year, which will be interesting, but it is something that we have touch on quite a bit before this. If there is anything I can give a hand with, PM me

SuperInfinity

What I would be extremely concerned about are the very serious allegations of forced and coerced mental health "treatment" and sessions, made by several people at the college. The "John Murphy" guy spoke of horrific treatment and severe abuses by the college, including being expelled because he didn't want to go to mental health sessions and for medication treatments at the college.

I don't know how true his claims are. However I tend to believe him because of what I've seen of "mental health" and what they do to old people. I too believe it's more of a money-making scheme than anything else. The idea of expelling people if they don't go for "mental health treatment" at the college seems outlandish to me.

That is just my opinion, but it seems to me like something that shouldn't ever be the case. If a person wants to go to the mental health system allow them. If not forget it. A doctor wanting to push his drugs on college students just seems so wrong to me.

IIRC there were also others emailing with their stories of being subjected to very bad treatment by that particular Dr. at UCC, being pushed to go on medications and drugs by the college. They can't all be like so out of control that they need these medications or they're expelled. Very, very sad imo.

lilmissprincess

To be perfectly honest, the opposite was my finding of the UCC Psychiatric service. Their lack of enthusiasm in supplying psychiatric drugs to students with depression without being entirely sure that this is what they wanted and needed in my experience and with others I have spoken to seems to be a resounding theme. Though the John Murphy email was very worrying, it contrasted with my own experience and that of anyone else I've spoken to.

Plautus

Without being too insensitive, 'John Murphy' seemed like a guy suffering from some kind of mental illness that was severely impairing his judgement. You have to remember that he was denying the existence of any mental illness - I know that those suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, for example, can be similarly deluded.

However, I can't speak with any certainty for what John Murphy was suffering from.

samf

SuperInfinity wrote: »

What I would be extremely concerned about are the very serious allegations of forced and coerced mental health "treatment" and sessions, made by several people at the college. The "John Murphy" guy spoke of horrific treatment and severe abuses by the college, including being expelled because he didn't want to go to mental health sessions and for medication treatments at the college.

I don't know how true his claims are. However I tend to believe him because of what I've seen of "mental health" and what they do to old people. I too believe it's more of a money-making scheme than anything else. The idea of expelling people if they don't go for "mental health treatment" at the college seems outlandish to me.

That is just my opinion, but it seems to me like something that shouldn't ever be the case. If a person wants to go to the mental health system allow them. If not forget it. A doctor wanting to push his drugs on college students just seems so wrong to me.

IIRC there were also others emailing with their stories of being subjected to very bad treatment by that particular Dr. at UCC, being pushed to go on medications and drugs by the college. They can't all be like so out of control that they need these medications or they're expelled. Very, very sad imo.

If 'John Murphy' had a boards.ie account, i'd imagine he would post very similar messages to the above. Not accusing you of being the character behind those emails, but I just find it amusing how often you reference him and support his claims.

SuperInfinity

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally would not part-take in any mental health treatment at the college, unless of course I was forced as that guy and others were claiming.

I don't know about the John Murphy email but I do think from personal experience that these mental health people can get "pushy" sometimes. For example when I was in first year, there was a particular lecturer who was trying to get me to go to see one and I found that to be a kind of demeaning experience. Another time I did go to see a psychiatrist and he wanted to give me pills, he really seemed like he was trying to push them at me. It was making me feel really uneasy and was only later that I found out that they try to give everyone pills. So in my personal experience, I don't like how I was treated and had a bad time with them.

Byron85

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally would not part-take in any mental health treatment at the college, unless of course I was forced as that guy and others were claiming.

I don't know about the John Murphy email but I do think from personal experience that these mental health people can get "pushy" sometimes. For example when I was in first year, there was a particular lecturer who was trying to get me to go to see one and I found that to be a kind of demeaning experience. Another time I did go to see a psychiatrist and he wanted to give me pills, he really seemed like he was trying to push them at me. It was making me feel really uneasy and was only later that I found out that they try to give everyone pills. So in my personal experience, I don't like how I was treated and had a bad time with them.

Complete and utter tripe of the highest order. I'm calling shenanigans on this one.

tommy21

I know first hand that there was no truth to that "John Murphy" scenario - but it was unfortunately a very sick person.

SuperInfinity

tommy21 wrote: »

I know first hand that there was no truth to that "John Murphy" scenario - but it was unfortunately a very sick person.

Where are you getting that information from? And what do you mean by "no truth"?

samf

Perhaps the fact that all the claims against the chief UCC doctor were all clearly lies, and anyone thats ever met him could tell you this??? Do you actually believe all "John Murphy's" claims SuperInfinity?

tommy21

samf wrote: »

Perhaps the fact that all the claims against the chief UCC doctor were all clearly lies, and anyone thats ever met him could tell you this??? Do you actually believe all "John Murphy's" claims SuperInfinity?

Exactly what I was going to say. I have worked with the Dr. in question on a few things and you won't meet a more decent sort.

SuperInfinity

samf wrote: »

Perhaps the fact that all the claims against the chief UCC doctor were all clearly lies, and anyone thats ever met him could tell you this??? Do you actually believe all "John Murphy's" claims SuperInfinity?

No, I never said I believed all his claims.... that doesn't mean I disbelieve all his claims hands-down either. Even if the chief doctor in UCC is a decent sort, I'm sure there must have been something to what he said happened to him.

I just hope that the mental health policy is a voluntary process rather than referrals and asking students to go to them. I am not mentally unstable and certain people were pushy and consdescending towards me to go for counselling, so I'm just a bit concerned about the whole process.

Plautus

In U.C.C., as in Ireland generally, you will be forced to see doctors if it is believed you pose an immediate and serious risk of harm to either yourself or others. As to whether or not treatment will follow from that is up to the clinician. It's very much a matter of last resort and will only be deployed when one's behaviour has become really erratic. And I mean really erratic.

As for someone suggesting you attend the counselling service, I wouldn't categorise that as 'forced'; it's probably genuine concern. If you didn't want to go that would be the end of it.

In any event, the counselling service is slow, again, to refer to the medical center so you'd have to be quite bad. That's my own experience.

Edit: You can consult the mental health policy document (it was finally released in March of this year) here, if that helps: http://www.ucc.ie/en/vpse/policies/StudentMentalHealthPolicy/Student%20Mental%20Health%20Policy%20UCC-final.pdf

tommy21

SuperInfinity wrote: »

No, I never said I believed all his claims.... that doesn't mean I disbelieve all his claims hands-down either. Even if the chief doctor in UCC is a decent sort, I'm sure there must have been something to what he said happened to him.

I just hope that the mental health policy is a voluntary process rather than referrals and asking students to go to them. I am not mentally unstable and certain people were pushy and consdescending towards me to go for counselling, so I'm just a bit concerned about the whole process.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy suspicion of the medical model/sector in Ireland, god knows there has been enough scandal. I definitely disagree with the tendency (not so much in UCC but rather in counselling generally) where people are almost afraid to admit they have been suicidal or harming in case they are committed on the spot. This type of attitude actually further stigmatises schizophrenia and depression in my opinion. But the majority of what that guy was going on about was really out there and not a reflection of how it is in UCC, at least in my experience. I recently surveyed several thousand UCC students for my thesis on a related topic that touched on the mental health services, and not one student had anything negative (bar wishing there were more services, access ,less waiting time etc) about them in that sense.

grenache

Great idea from lilmissprincess. Browsing on boards mobile now but will email my details to the address provided at the nearest convenience.

lilmissprincess

Bump! Still need 15 signatures so please email on your name, student number and faculty to mindmattersucc@gmail.com

Orizio

Best of luck OP.

BTW, the next person to mention the name 'John Murphy' in this thread will be banned.

rachel_koeman

Byron85 wrote: »

Complete and utter tripe of the highest order. I'm calling shenanigans on this one.

i agree!
he's a psychiatrist - its his job to create a plan for his patient which may include medication and councelling or CBT.

rachel_koeman

guys this is a great idea. if you need help with anything please Pm me

grenache

Orizio wrote: »

Best of luck OP.

BTW, the next person to mention the name 'John Murphy' in this thread will be banned.

Who's John Murphy?

tommy21

grenache wrote: »

Who's

John Murphy

?

Can you feel the ice cracking under you Grenache?:eek:

grenache

tommy21 wrote: »

Can you feel the ice cracking under you Grenache?:eek:

Its quite thick were i'm standing. Besides Orizio loves me, he wouldn't dare!

tommy21

grenache wrote: »

Its quite thick were i'm standing. Besides Orizio loves me, he wouldn't dare!

I don't know, a direct challenge to a mod's orders that goes unpunished would smack of favouritism

grenache

tommy21 wrote: »

I don't know, a direct challenge to a mod's orders that goes unpunished would smack of favouritism

And banning someone for saying 'John Murphy' would smack of OTT tactics. On a serious note though, i got no email from this guy, i keep hearing his name being mentioned but am clueless at to what this guy is about!

rebel girl 15

grenache wrote: »

And banning someone for saying 'John Murphy' would smack of OTT tactics. On a serious note though, i got no email from this guy, i keep hearing his name being mentioned but am clueless at to what this guy is about!

Lazybones! :P Search the UCC forum and tada

lilmissprincess

Got the 100 signatures! Thanks everyone!

grenache

lilmissprincess wrote: »

Got the 100 signatures! Thanks everyone!

I sent mine tonight. Mine being the last and most important of course.

Shatner

lilmissprincess wrote: »

Hi,

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this, so apologies if not!

I'm trying to set up a mental health society in UCC, to hopefully start around Freshers Week 2010. Under the name Mind Matters, the hope is to provide information to UCC students affected by and interested in Mental Health issues, but also to provide a support community, not unlike that of the LGBT society, where people affected by and interested in mental health issues can meet in a social setting and make friends who have this in common.

We're not trying to make support groups or give genuine medical advice, but to provide information and reduce the loneliness which can be associated with mental health issues.

At the moment we're trying to collect signatures over the internet, as its proving more difficult than it would in the college year. If you'd be interested in seeing the society set up, please email your name, student number, year and faculty to mindmattersucc@gmail.com.

Facebook page for group: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Mind-Matters-Society-Proposed/124022594305267

Thanks!

LMP

Isn't this a little dangerous? I'm not questioning your intentions which I believe are for the best. My issue is with people who are untrained and unqualified attempting to "provide information to UCC students affected by and interested in Mental Health issues, but also to provide a support community, not unlike that of the LGBT society, where people affected by and interested in mental health issues can meet in a social setting and make friends who have this in common."

Something like this will need to be managed extremely carefully. If something goes wrong (e.g. someone overstepping their boundaries and giving another member mental health advice), you could be open to legal claims.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade - just a word of caution that you will need to be very careful if this society gets off the ground.