Purebred Charolais Heifer

Indubitable

I have a purebred charolais heifer and I am concerned about the calving difficulty on her first calf so can anyone recommend some good easycalving bulls?

i was looking at Pirate (PTE) and excellent (EXT) who both have a calving difficulty of around 6% or possibly Texan-Gie who is 9.81%. I will be extra vigilant in her management pre-calving but I am just a little concerned to use higher calving difficulty bulls at first.

I would like to use TZA at 12% difficulty but is that a bit high?
I would also like to use Sang D'or but he is at 25% so he is not really an option.

Shauny2010

I usually use an easy calfer limousine such as Benzene (ZEN) produces great weanling's 800+ Euro plus you wouldn't have to join to charolais society until the next year.
If you are determined to use a charolais then maybe use Vera Cruz (VCZ), a nice handy calf and the heifers make excellent cows

pajero12

First of all..Is she muscley? If she is she'll be hard calved with any bull!Pirate wouldn't be too bad! Do you have a TXG straw? The demand shot up for him after the cracker in december..If you do,We had to section a heifer with a txg calf.

bogman_bass

TXG is something like 150 euro a straw!

sai is pretty easy calved

TGN is probably the easiest calved charolais you can get at 4.7% with 88% reliability. lacking quality though

pajero12

bogman_bass wrote: »

TXG is something like 150 euro a straw!

sai is pretty easy calved

TGN is probably the easiest calved charolais you can get at 4.7% with 88% reliability. lacking quality though

From where?

bogman_bass

pajero12 wrote: »

From where?

Charolais society

pajero12

bogman_bass wrote: »

Charolais society

Nope there sold out!

snowman707

just wondering are you not better off doing as shauny suggests and going for a limo or perhaps a bb,

will using an easy calver produce a quality pedigree animal? and with reg and inspection fees would a good X bred commercial make as much?

sillycows

Hi guys,

I have a budget of €1600 for the purchase of a purebred charolais heifer. What quality could I expect for that amount of money?

leg wax

sillycows wrote: »

Hi guys,

I have a budget of €1600 for the purchase of a purebred charolais heifer. What quality could I expect for that amount of money?

i would say no quality

ellewood

best advice i ever got was to buy the best you can afford ive bought some hrs for 1600 ive bought pbr hfrs for 900 which have made money - but not much more than commercial really and ive also bought hfrs for 2600-4000 which if go well can make money but can also go bad ive a 2nd calf out of a hfr i paid 3000 for which made 2500 in the yard at 11 mths just off the cow and ive paid 3000 for hfrs which didnt breed well at all which ended up in the factory at cow price. usually ive no problem with calving i used pte on 22 pbr hfrs last year no probs with any of em but ive used saphir this year because hes as easy if not a little bit easier than pte but from lads that have used hm they say the calvings as easy but you have a better 1st calf but using easy calving bull is no guarentee either i had a massive cow erudit cow incalf to klu which is easy calving but she put out her womb - dont know why she calved fine the last 3 yrs got vet treated her but she was dead next day but thats the joys of it you have to take the good with the bad
if you have a budget to buy a hfr stick to it theres no point buying a hfr you cant afford then not being not able to look after it properly - buy the best ai straws ect. you will get a hfr for that money no question but the breeding mightnt be in her but sher rome wasnt built in a day you can maybe buy a better 1 next year and better again the year after ect.

24_7

have seen a lot of good pte calves about lately with plently muscle at back end. Have an ext calf out of my own heifer, if i was going again would pick pirate.
Anyone know what asleigh victor or maerrdy impeccable calves are like. Looking something to add a bit of width

pakalasa

I use a lot of HWN on commercial sucklers. He's easy calving. Calves are super, they look to have great potential for growth.
My AI guy says that "HWN is slightly lower but has more muscle than PTE.

ellewood

yea id agree hwn calves are very good quality he is 3rd highest charolais for sbv and is very easy calving ive used him on cows and first calve hfrs they were big square 52 hfrs that were near 3 yrs old when calving but calved absolutly no bother

Indubitable

How are the 52 heifers for milk?

Indubitable

sillycows wrote: »

Hi guys,

I have a budget of €1600 for the purchase of a purebred charolais heifer. What quality could I expect for that amount of money?

I grabbed one for 1750. Average looking animals with decent bloodlines. Brings a good calf.

pajero12

Very bad milkers...Along with being too muscly...There probably the most unwanted breed of cow. Sorry:o

Bigbird1

52s breed serious tho..try nelson on ur heifer dey wont grow too big tho,or his son Roundhill Doc from Dovea...OSI is also easily calved not sure what da calves are lik tho,theres not much talk about him.pirate still a good option

need_2_know

They have no milk in year one but year two onwards there will be a small improvement. dairy nuts for cow and crunch for calf and that will solve issues.important to breed milk back into the herd as soon as possible.
I have a bull for sale at the mo with good figures on milk.his parentage has bags of milk

Silver 1234

Charolais Heifer by Doonally New what bull should I use. I am looking for a Charolais bull. All help appreciated

Muckit

Bigbird1 wrote: »

52s breed serious tho..OSI is also easily calved not sure what da calves are lik tho

5mth old OSI bull calf out ofa CF52 cow (check out page 21 of photo thread for pic of his cow). He's 9mth old now and not looking too bad

need_2_know

U looking to Ai or purchase a bull

need_2_know

Silver, if you send on the name (name on the cert) of the heifer, ill have a look at her parentage and give you my opinion if you want.Plenty of great bulls out there amoung the stations

flatout11

need_2_know wrote: »

.Plenty of great bulls out there amoung the stations

what stations are you buying off ??? the selection of charos at the moment is dire especially by comparision to the choice in limmys and blues

need_2_know

Flatout, I buy from any/all depending on what i believe is best for the particular animal. last year I purchased straws from Progressive, Eurogene, and Goulding.
At the start of year I do out a chart and match best bull to cow.simple as i think

flatout11

need_2_know wrote: »

Flatout, I buy from any/all depending on what i believe is best for the particular animal. last year I purchased straws from Progressive, Eurogene, and Goulding.
At the start of year I do out a chart and match best bull to cow.simple as i think

so which 2 to 3 would you suggest are worth while?

need_2_know

Flatout, it very much depends on her genetics. any good ai man will advise you if you show him/her the cert of the animal.
Even if they are cross breds, you still need to be aware of their genetics where possible.

bogman_bass

So you expect all AI men to be experts in Charolais blood lines? Thats a very high expectation to have1

need_2_know

Bogman, Flatout asked a very general question and I said "any good ai man will advise you if you show him/her the cert of the animal". Thats their job as they are paid by the station to inseminate. Its in their very best interests to keep the farmer satisfied. At least thats the way it works in our area.
I have great confidence in the people I ask for advice as they are best placed to get more information if required.

flatout11

need_2_know wrote: »

Bogman, Flatout asked a very general question and I said "any good ai man will advise you if you show him/her the cert of the animal". Thats their job as they are paid by the station to inseminate. Its in their very best interests to keep the farmer satisfied. At least thats the way it works in our area.
I have great confidence in the people I ask for advice as they are best placed to get more information if required.

thats crap!!!! most of them will only know the few that is being pushed or the old favourities
so if you were to stick your neck out and reccomend 3 which would it be?

need_2_know

Its dissappointing to note that you share no confidence in the these professionals.I am very satisfied with the people I talk shop with. For that I am grateful to them. In light of your later comment "if you were to stick your neck out and reccomend 3 which would it be?", I am happy to tell you what sires i would use on particular females. To give you my best opinion, you will need to upload pictures of the females and there genetic history.This way I will be better placed to offer you some feedback. If you dont know there genetic history, then you will be unable to maximise your investmnet. Ask any successful suckler herd person and they will share similar views.

flatout11

need_2_know wrote: »

Its dissappointing to note that you share no confidence in the these professionals.I am very satisfied with the people I talk shop with. For that I am grateful to them. In light of your later comment "if you were to stick your neck out and reccomend 3 which would it be?", I am happy to tell you what sires i would use on particular females. To give you my best opinion, you will need to upload pictures of the females and there genetic history.This way I will be better placed to offer you some feedback. If you dont know there genetic history, then you will be unable to maximise your investmnet. Ask any successful suckler herd person and they will share similar views.

thats the reality about most (not all) ai men, no offence but matching bloodlines etc sounds good but its a figment of a lot of pedigree breeders imaginations, (and there are a few that have made a profession of it!!)
i asked you the question to see what kind of bulls you rated -
as to the last assertation 'Ask any successful suckler herd person and they will share similar views' with limited use of AI there is generally only one bull used in a herd so how does this statement make sense??

need_2_know

Flatout, your making your selection very difficult on yourself if you dont have a general idea of what bulls you can and cant use.
I base my decisions on a number of factors when selecting optimum sire.
The euro star rating helps alongside your assessment. The ancestry of the females is very important where you are staying within the breed.
Anyways, going forward, if the breeding isnt right from an early stage, youve already restricted the euro margin. Last year, I done out a spreadsheet with list of females, their first line ancestry, previous two calves,happy or unhappy.Then I asked stations for their opinions. I then made my decision taking into account their professional opinion. It is most important to know the female and her abilities before you decide to go with the 'first stray' approach. I learned this the hard way after c sections and reduced return on investment.simple as really.

flatout11

need_2_know wrote: »

Flatout, your making your selection very difficult on yourself if you dont have a general idea of what bulls you can and cant use.

what are you on about???

need_2_know

Flatout, it works for me, so happy days. Best of luck in your search.over and out

Bizzum

need_2_know wrote: »

It is most important to know the female and her abilities before you decide to go with the 'first stray' approach.

I agree with the first half of this statement, indeed it is vital to know your cows abilities. No one knows them better than yourself, I'm not so sure the majority of AI men would have sway my own judgement.

This 'first stray' approach, what is it?

simx

sillycows wrote: »

Hi guys,

I have a budget of €1600 for the purchase of a purebred charolais heifer. What quality could I expect for that amount of money?

i know a lad got 1 last year for 1300,2yo ch pbr,good shape and had a smaher of a heifer calf amonth ago,best wait till prices drop

need_2_know

Bizzum, 'the first straw' approach is when the AI person arrives in your yard and just asks; what breed? and pulls out a price of day straw (the first straw approach in my view) without giving any consideration to the risks associated.lastnight, I called to the neighbour and he was very pissed off. I said whats up? He said "just found a cow over in the field on her back trying to calf, calf dead, vet on the way, to section cow. He has a Lim stock bull but hand picked some for AI but gave no consideration to the AI other than breed.
Turns out, she had 3 weeks with her time and was in calf to hard calving bull.I took twins off the very same cow lastyear. Point is; choose wisely not first straw approach.
I had a 2nd calver charolais cow calf unaided to a AI BB 2 days ago- didnt lay a hand to assist.

flatout11

need_2_know wrote: »

Bizzum, 'the first straw' approach is when the AI person arrives in your yard and just asks; what breed? and pulls out a price of day straw (the first straw approach in my view) without giving any consideration to the risks associated.lastnight, I called to the neighbour and he was very pissed off. I said whats up? He said "just found a cow over in the field on her back trying to calf, calf dead, vet on the way, to section cow. He has a Lim stock bull but hand picked some for AI but gave no consideration to the AI other than breed.
Turns out, she had 3 weeks with her time and was in calf to hard calving bull.I took twins off the very same cow lastyear. Point is; choose wisely not first straw approach.
I had a 2nd calver charolais cow calf unaided to a AI BB 2 days ago- didnt lay a hand to assist.

bad advice from the AI man so in fairness though with 3 weeks with her he should of been looking about her sooner!
but as top the first straw approach i would agree with you that theis is a bad idea- you shouldnt be breeding pedigrees if this is your attitude

Bizzum

need_2_know wrote: »

Bizzum, 'the first straw' approach is when the AI person arrives in your yard and just asks; what breed? and pulls out a price of day straw (the first straw approach in my view) without giving any consideration to the risks associated.lastnight, I called to the neighbour and he was very pissed off. I said whats up? He said "just found a cow over in the field on her back trying to calf, calf dead, vet on the way, to section cow. He has a Lim stock bull but hand picked some for AI but gave no consideration to the AI other than breed.
Turns out, she had 3 weeks with her time and was in calf to hard calving bull.I took twins off the very same cow lastyear. Point is; choose wisely not first straw approach.
I had a 2nd calver charolais cow calf unaided to a AI BB 2 days ago- didnt lay a hand to assist.

Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't fathom what this 'first stray' idea was.
To be honest I thought this type of thinking was long gone, ie ringing the AI man and asking for a breed rather than a specific bull.
Certainly if you stick around here long enough you will see lenghty discussion on the subject.

charolaisman

Indubitable wrote: »

I have a purebred charolais heifer and I am concerned about the calving difficulty on her first calf so can anyone recommend some good easycalving bulls?

i was looking at Pirate (PTE) and excellent (EXT) who both have a calving difficulty of around 6% or possibly Texan-Gie who is 9.81%. I will be extra vigilant in her management pre-calving but I am just a little concerned to use higher calving difficulty bulls at first.

I would like to use TZA at 12% difficulty but is that a bit high?
I would also like to use Sang D'or but he is at 25% so he is not really an option.

class bull out there at the moment called NOAILLE. Very easy calving , don't take the risk first time make sure the first bull you use on a heifer is as easy calving as possible , NOAILLE and pirate are probably the two most easy calving bulls that bring the best quality

Stan 10

charolaisman wrote: »

class bull out there at the moment called NOAILLE. Very easy calving , don't take the risk first time make sure the first bull you use on a heifer is as easy calving as possible , NOAILLE and pirate are probably the two most easy calving bulls that bring the best quality

What AI Station has NOAILLE?

Bizzum

Stan 10 wrote: »

What AI Station has NOAILLE?

He's a Charolais Society bull. €35 a straw.

charolaisman

Stan 10 wrote: »

What AI Station has NOAILLE?

ya can buy him off the charolais website , most ai men would have him anyways if you asked them or else they would get him for ya

Bizzum

charolaisman wrote: »

ya can buy him off the charolais website , most ai men would have him anyways if you asked them or else they would get him for ya

If you're a member you can buy him. I don't think you can buy him otherwise unless they have changed?

eljay

if you don't want trouble first give her a speckle park calf slips out and give a good bull second time around

Kovu

This thread is almost three years old, she's a good cow or a steak by this stage! :pac: