chimney creosote problem

reilig

In our new house since January and still having major problems with the stanley Errigal in our kitchen. Its a solid fuel and we have plenty of dry turf and timber for it. However, we have serious problems with creosote in it. It was connected to the clay flue liner in the chimney above it using a clay flue liner adaptor. It has a 5" metal flue linking the adaptor to the range (as stanley recommend in their manual). All fittings were done by an experienced installer. We initially had a crow's nest in the chimney, but it has been swept and there is a great draw on it.

Again, creosote is our problem. We can light the range and it will work perfectly 4 times out of every 5, but there has been a couple of times when the creosote from the chimney has run down the clay liner dripped out onto the clay flue adaptor shoved up into the chimney and run down the metal flue to drip onto the top of the range. The smell is horrendous. When it drips onto the range the splash often goes onto the stones around them and I'm afraid it will stain them. Its no more than 40ml of liquid at any one time, but it makes an awful mess and smell.

Can anyone tell me what we can do or what the problem is???

I have done a lot of research on the internet but can find nothing in Ireland about it and the guy who installed it has never see a problem like it before. I have found some similar problems in the UK and they recommend fitting a sump adaptor instead of the clay flue liner adaptor. This sump adaptor will go around the outside of the clay flue liner instead of being pushed up the inside, and it will catch any drip that comes down the chimney and direct it back into the range where it will be evaporated.

What i want to know is why this is happening?? Would the sump adaptor solve my problem and is there anywhere that I can get a sump adaptor in Ireland???

Any help or advice appreciated.

Dan

demanufactured

Your not burning it hot enough if thats happening.

gsxr1

it can be formed by hot gases from the stove hitting the cold clay fluliner


I started a thread on stove fitting advise a couple of years ago and its still going. have a flick through it. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055394080&highlight=solid+fuel

I have been through many sites looking for advise on how to run your same set up safely.

And the best advise I have found is to use lots of news paper and light kindling to get a big fire going as fast as possible . This heats the flu up fast and minimizes condensation forming on the cold clay. It is this dirty sticky condensation from turf or wood that causes your problem.

keeping the stove burning in a medium heat and NOT letting the fuel smolder for hours also helps

I have also found from my own experience that burning the stove at max for 20mins weekly(in winter) has the effect of cleaning my flu .

You may want to consider getting your turf somewhere else also.

reilig

It happens usually during the first 30 minutes of lighting the fire so i expect that this is when the chimney is heating up.

PeteHeat

Hi,

The flue adaptors you described are not a professional option, the correct way to install the stove is using the correct type and size of flue liner back filled with vermiculite.

If installed in compliance with the building regs and HETAS creosote would not be able to weep where the adaptor meets the clay flue because the sockets would be going in the right direction.

You have 5" (125mm) spigot on the stove exiting into a standard size clay flue 175 > 200mm the flue size in the chimney should be the same as the spigot off the stove.

The flue gas temperatures (smoke) from the stove are lower than from an open fire so when the smoke enters the wide flue it cools down too fast causing condensation which is where the creosote is coming from.

It can be very dangerous more so when the chimney is on an outside wall because the clay flue tends to be colder, even dry turf can cause a build up on the surface of the flue liner causing chimney fires.

There has been some good advice posted on how to reduce the problem but it is still a problem that should be corrected.

.

reilig

Thanks Pete,

That's good solid information. I have the correct clay flue liner adaptor sourced which will prevent creosote leaks but am I correct in assuming that you would advise me to install a 5 inch steel liner inside the clay flue in order to make it the same size as the spigot off the stove????

Dan

PeteHeat wrote: »

Hi,

The flue adaptors you described are not a professional option, the correct way to install the stove is using the correct type and size of flue liner back filled with vermiculite.

If installed in compliance with the building regs and HETAS creosote would not be able to weep where the adaptor meets the clay flue because the sockets would be going in the right direction.

You have 5" (125mm) spigot on the stove exiting into a standard size clay flue 175 > 200mm the flue size in the chimney should be the same as the spigot off the stove.

The flue gas temperatures (smoke) from the stove are lower than from an open fire so when the smoke enters the wide flue it cools down too fast causing condensation which is where the creosote is coming from.

It can be very dangerous more so when the chimney is on an outside wall because the clay flue tends to be colder, even dry turf can cause a build up on the surface of the flue liner causing chimney fires.

There has been some good advice posted on how to reduce the problem but it is still a problem that should be corrected.

.

PeteHeat

Hi,

The only way I know of fitting such an adaptor is when the chimney is being built, the first clay liner sits into the spigot of the adaptor, not fitting the adaptor into the flue.

Yes I mean a proper flue liner all the way up to the top of the chimney, I have a copied part of a draft of one our new web pages it may help explain easier.

Most people do not think of what stove type or size they need until after the house is built and they are ready to start furnishing which is why so many new chimneys are not really suitable for the stoves they buy.

The diameter of the flue liner should be determined by the size of the flue spigot on the stove.

Good Quality Stoves are designed and tested for the flue size that ensures complete combustion (or as close as possible).

A flue that is too small will restrict the flow of the flue gasses

A flue that is too big will cause a drop in pressure, and cause a drop in the flow of the flue gasses (smoke).

Picture the water flowing in a river, when the river bed is narrow, the water flows fast, if the river bed becomes wider, the water slows down.

The same thing happens to smoke as it flows through a chimney, an oversized flue causes the flue gas (smoke) to slow down and condense inside the chimney resulting in water and creosote.

The reason the spigot on the flue liner faces up is to allow any such condensate or soot to fall safely into the stove where it can be burned off safely.

For retro fit applications an insulated liner sized to suit the spigot on the stove is recommended.

© www.ecostoves.ie


.

reilig

PeteHeat wrote: »

Hi,

The only way I know of fitting such an adaptor is when the chimney is being built, the first clay liner sits into the spigot of the adaptor, not fitting the adaptor into the flue.


.

Thanks again pete. I have sourced an adaptor from the Uk which has a condensation trap. It pushes into the clay flue but also has a lip on the outside which pushes to the end of the clay flue to collect any condensation that may fall from the clay flue and direct it back into the range (instead of down my wall).
the only place that I could find one of these was in the uk.

I had ordered and paid for it before your advice above so I'm going to try it first and hope that it will work for me. If it doesn't work, I will have to line the chimney as you suggested.

Dan

PeteHeat

Hi,

Please P.M a link as there is a similar product made here but my Product Liability Insurers will not cover me to supply or install it.

I find it difficult to understand how something that can be like tar is expected to flow back into the flue, interesting I hope it works.

.

reilig

PeteHeat wrote: »

Hi,

Please P.M a link as there is a similar product made here but my Product Liability Insurers will not cover me to supply or install it.

I find it difficult to understand how something that can be like tar is expected to flow back into the flue, interesting I hope it works.

.

What comes down my chimney is more water than tar so it should have no problem flowing back into the flue.

I'm attaching a link to a picture of the adaptor. I hope it is visible. Its the second picture from the bottom - the flue adaptor rather than the sump adaptor. I did not pay the price shown.

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/single-skin-flue.html