Importing a car - few questions.

CiniO

I know this subject was broached many times in here. But I have few questions that I didn't find answer for, and few objectives I wanted to display.

Recently I bought car in the North.
I know I'm supposed to register the car and pay VRT within next working day after bringing the car to the state. The only thing is - this is radiculous. At this time of the year, I'm very busy at my work, which makes me work 6 long days every week. I really can't take day off just to go to VRO to register my car. So registering will have to wait for week or two.

Here is few questions.

1. If you buy UK car, the seller gives you his V5C document, and sends part 11 to DVLA (notification of permanent export). My insurance company gave me cover for that car on UK plates. The only thing I'm wondering is, if DVLA is notified about permanent export, it means that car is not registered in UK anymore. And that would mean, that I own the car that is actually not registered in any country. I know it has UK plates, but I assume, that in their database, this car is written as unregistered. In case of any trouble (accident or sth) could insurance company refuse to pay for the claim, because car was not actually registered anywhere? In the assumptions that I had to accept while getting my policy, I had to tick, that car is registered on my name - which in this case in not true. Should I be worried?

2. Time for registering the car and paying VRT is to the end of next working day. How can they know, when I brought the car into the State? I bought it from car dealer, so I have invoice with date. But buying it in the North, doesn't necesserly means, I brought it to Ireland straight on. I always could buy a car, and bring it a month later, couldn't I. Is there any way thay can say the car was in the State, until they spot the car somewhere on the road?

3. What about NCT? Car I bought has MOT until March 2011. But according to regulations, they are not interested in it. If I register it in Ireland, it becomes liable for NCT straight on. How can it be, if it's imposible to do NCT on the spot. Waiting time can be few weeks or even months. Does it mean, that after registering the car, I can't drive it legally for few weeks until I do NCT? How can I get car to NCT centre, if it can't be legally on the road? Do I have to tow it?

4. I'll probably have day of on Tuesday (29th June). If I go and pay VRT that day, and apply for motor tax, I assume I would have to pay motortax from the beginning of June, which is another rip-off. Am I correct?


I also have few conclusions about it.

1. VRT. People say it's a rip-off. I looked at the rates, and that exactly what I thought - it's a rip-off. But let's say I can understand it. Some people on this forum were mentioning, that Ireland has high VRT, but has also low corporate taxes, which makes more jobs. I'm not Irish, I live here, so I just have to accept VRT. The only thing is, when you look into it throughly, it's not only rip-off, but it's a huge trick, that government is using to cheat people.
Look at the rates - for cars they are between 14% and 36% which in high indeed, buy let's say can be acceptable.
The sad true is, they are not the real rates.
How it works, is VRT is charged on OMSP (open market selling price), which includes VAT (so it's tax on tax), but what's worse, also this price includes VRT, which makes VRT rate is counted on prices already including VRT. This it the most cheeky trick ever.
Example - based on new car, which avarage engine 175g CO2 emissins (VRT rate 28%)
Let's say the car costs 20,000 euro. VRT was 28% of it, which is 5,600 euros. So cost of the car without VRT is 14,400 euro. Going further this is the price including VAT, so without VAT (21%) price goes down to 11,900 euros. And that's the price that car manufacturer charges for the car. 20,000 euro is 168% of 11,900, which just means, that whole tax on car was 68% of it's value. VAT was 21% and VRT was 47%.
So with this easy trick, by just charging VRT on OMSP instead of the cost of the car, real VRT rate is hidden.
In this example what they say is VRT at rate of 28%, the real rate is 47%.
The higher CO2 emissions, the VRT rate is higher, and the difference in this cheat is more significiant.

The most radiculous thing about it, is that government takes almost 70% of the product value.


2. NCT. I completly can't understand why NCT needs to be done for imported car, even if they have test from other EU county. Does Irish government think, that test centres in other countries are worse?
It's definitly against european law, and I'm sure if someone brought that to european commision, Ireland would have to change this regulations, as that was the case in many other european countries like Poland or Netherland.

3. Motor tax charged back - why while taxing my say 29th day of the month, I have to pay tax for the whole month. This is against any law.

Divorce Referendum

. If you buy UK car, the seller gives you his V5C document, and sends part 11 to DVLA (notification of permanent export). My insurance company gave me cover for that car on UK plates. The only thing I'm wondering is, if DVLA is notified about permanent export, it means that car is not registered in UK anymore. And that would mean, that I own the car that is actually not registered in any country. I know it has UK plates, but I assume, that in their database, this car is written as unregistered. In case of any trouble (accident or sth) could insurance company refuse to pay for the claim, because car was not actually registered anywhere? In the assumptions that I had to accept while getting my policy, I had to tick, that car is registered on my name - which in this case in not true. Should I be worried

Yes you should be, technically you are not insured once the dvla process the import of the car. When that happens im not sure.

2. Time for registering the car and paying VRT is to the end of next working day. How can they know, when I brought the car into the State? I bought it from car dealer, so I have invoice with date. But buying it in the North, doesn't necesserly means, I brought it to Ireland straight on. I always could buy a car, and bring in a month later, couldn't I. Is there any way thay can say the car was in the State, until they spot the car somewhere on the road?

Only concern you should have here is the guards/customs. If they stop you while you are driving the car you are screwed. The VRT office couldnt care less what date is on it, once you present the money they dont care.

3. What about NCT? Car I bought has MOT until March 2011. But according to regulations, they are not interested in it. If I register it in Ireland, it becomes liable for NCT straight on. How can it be, if it's imposible to do NCT on the spot. Waiting time can be few weeks or even months. Does it mean, that after registering the car, I can't drive it legally for few weeks until I do NCT? How can I get car to NCT centre, if it can't be legally on the road? Do I have to tow it

I had a problem in this case that i could not insure the car until it was nct'd. Some insurance companies dont have a problem with this. Book your nct. Keep your confirmation with you in the car. If you are stopped the guard is unlikely to fine/points you beacause you will be in the same situation as many, unless you are doing something else wrong

4. I'll probably have day of on Tuesday (29th June). If I go and pay VRT that day, and apply for motor tax, I assume I would have to pay motortax from the beginning of June, which is another rip-off. Am I correct?

Yes I would reckon so but it is very close to the end of the month, best to ring and check on this.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

1. If you buy UK car, the seller gives you his V5C document, and sends part 11 to DVLA (notification of permanent export). My insurance company gave me cover for that car on UK plates. The only thing I'm wondering is, if DVLA is notified about permanent export, it means that car is not registered in UK anymore. And that would mean, that I own the car that is actually not registered in any country. I know it has UK plates, but I assume, that in their database, this car is written as unregistered. In case of any trouble (accident or sth) could insurance company refuse to pay for the claim, because car was not actually registered anywhere? In the assumptions that I had to accept while getting my policy, I had to tick, that car is registered on my name - which in this case in not true. Should I be worried?

If you falsified any information in the course of obtaining an insurance quote then it is deemed that you obtained that quote illegally.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

If you falsified any information in the course of obtaining an insurance quote then it is deemed that you obtained that quote illegally.

I didn't falsified any information.
I called my insurer, and told them that I want to swap my insurance for a car I just bought. I informed them that the car was UK reg because I just bought it in NI.
Today I called them again to make it 100% clear, and explained, that car is not registered on my name. He asked why, so I answered, that it couldn't be registered on my name in NI because I don't live there. I only can register it on my name in ROI, but it'll take some time to do the paperwork. And at the moment I have UK registration certificate in the name of previous owner.
Eventually he told me it doesn't matter for them, and that I can drive on UK plates as long as I want, because I'm still covered.

Of course, it's not OK with revenue, but seems to be OK with my insurance company.

CiniO

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Only concern you should have here is the guards/customs. If they stop you while you are driving the car you are screwed. The VRT office couldnt care less what date is on it, once you present the money they dont care.

I live in the extremally rural area, so chance they will stop me near my home are like 1 to million. Problem arises when I'll travel to more civilised places.

I had a problem in this case that i could not insure the car until it was nct'd. Some insurance companies dont have a problem with this. Book your nct. Keep your confirmation with you in the car. If you are stopped the guard is unlikely to fine/points you beacause you will be in the same situation as many, unless you are doing something else wrong

Did insurance company asked you to produce NCT certificate, before they could provide you with a policy?
At the moment my car has a MOT certificate valid until March 2011. In case of any trouble, I assume it is good enough to prove that car was tested and is roadworthy.

On the other hand situation is radiculous. After registering the car, you have to do NCT straight away. Nearest booking might be few weeks or even months forward.
This actually means, that for this few weeks or month, I'm not legally allowed to drive my car.
Most funny thing is, that it's not my fault, but it's fault of stupid regulations.
I know guards will almost always let me go in this case, as they know how the situations is. But the truth is, it shouldn't be like this, that I'm forced to break the law, and then not penalised for it.
It should be, the law is written that way, that no one is forced to break it.
I still completly can't understand why can't they accept test certificate from other EU country?

Yes I would reckon so but it is very close to the end of the month, best to ring and check on this.

I did. That's the case.
If I tax my car od 30 June, I'll have to pay for the whole month. Another stupid law.

Henry Ford III

Nobody enjoys complying with motoring laws and regulations they don't necessarily agree with.

Still doesn't make compliance optional though.

si_guru

CiniO wrote: »

I know this subject was broached many times in here. But I have few questions that I didn't find answer for, and few objectives I wanted to display.

Recently I bought car in the North.
I know I'm supposed to register the car and pay VRT within next working day after bringing the car to the state. The only thing is - this is radiculous. At this time of the year, I'm very busy at my work, which makes me work 6 long days every week. I really can't take day off just to go to VRO to register my car. So registering will have to wait for week or two.

Here is few questions.

1. If you buy UK car, the seller gives you his V5C document, and sends part 11 to DVLA (notification of permanent export). My insurance company gave me cover for that car on UK plates. The only thing I'm wondering is, if DVLA is notified about permanent export, it means that car is not registered in UK anymore. And that would mean, that I own the car that is actually not registered in any country. I know it has UK plates, but I assume, that in their database, this car is written as unregistered. In case of any trouble (accident or sth) could insurance company refuse to pay for the claim, because car was not actually registered anywhere? In the assumptions that I had to accept while getting my policy, I had to tick, that car is registered on my name - which in this case in not true. Should I be worried?

2. Time for registering the car and paying VRT is to the end of next working day. How can they know, when I brought the car into the State? I bought it from car dealer, so I have invoice with date. But buying it in the North, doesn't necesserly means, I brought it to Ireland straight on. I always could buy a car, and bring it a month later, couldn't I. Is there any way thay can say the car was in the State, until they spot the car somewhere on the road?

3. What about NCT? Car I bought has MOT until March 2011. But according to regulations, they are not interested in it. If I register it in Ireland, it becomes liable for NCT straight on. How can it be, if it's imposible to do NCT on the spot. Waiting time can be few weeks or even months. Does it mean, that after registering the car, I can't drive it legally for few weeks until I do NCT? How can I get car to NCT centre, if it can't be legally on the road? Do I have to tow it?

4. I'll probably have day of on Tuesday (29th June). If I go and pay VRT that day, and apply for motor tax, I assume I would have to pay motortax from the beginning of June, which is another rip-off. Am I correct?


I also have few conclusions about it.

1. VRT. People say it's a rip-off. I looked at the rates, and that exactly what I thought - it's a rip-off. But let's say I can understand it. Some people on this forum were mentioning, that Ireland has high VRT, but has also low corporate taxes, which makes more jobs. I'm not Irish, I live here, so I just have to accept VRT. The only thing is, when you look into it throughly, it's not only rip-off, but it's a huge trick, that government is using to cheat people.
Look at the rates - for cars they are between 14% and 36% which in high indeed, buy let's say can be acceptable.
The sad true is, they are not the real rates.
How it works, is VRT is charged on OMSP (open market selling price), which includes VAT (so it's tax on tax), but what's worse, also this price includes VRT, which makes VRT rate is counted on prices already including VRT. This it the most cheeky trick ever.
Example - based on new car, which avarage engine 175g CO2 emissins (VRT rate 28%)
Let's say the car costs 20,000 euro. VRT was 28% of it, which is 5,600 euros. So cost of the car without VRT is 14,400 euro. Going further this is the price including VAT, so without VAT (21%) price goes down to 11,900 euros. And that's the price that car manufacturer charges for the car. 20,000 euro is 168% of 11,900, which just means, that whole tax on car was 68% of it's value. VAT was 21% and VRT was 47%.
So with this easy trick, by just charging VRT on OMSP instead of the cost of the car, real VRT rate is hidden.
In this example what they say is VRT at rate of 28%, the real rate is 47%.
The higher CO2 emissions, the VRT rate is higher, and the difference in this cheat is more significiant.

The most radiculous thing about it, is that government takes almost 70% of the product value.


2. NCT. I completly can't understand why NCT needs to be done for imported car, even if they have test from other EU county. Does Irish government think, that test centres in other countries are worse?
It's definitly against european law, and I'm sure if someone brought that to european commision, Ireland would have to change this regulations, as that was the case in many other european countries like Poland or Netherland.

3. Motor tax charged back - why while taxing my say 29th day of the month, I have to pay tax for the whole month. This is against any law.

If it makes you so angry why didn't you just buy a car in Ireland?

Also I think #3 would be the same in any country..

OMSP only applies to secondhand cars, so a new car would have VRT on the net invoice price (that's how my new m/cycle was done anyway).

si_guru

I did. That's the case.
If I tax my car od 30 June, I'll have to pay for the whole month. Another stupid law.

..but imagine the complexity of having a pricing matrix calculated by the day! then you'd be saying "it mad I have to pay a full day when I taxed my car at 5pm"...

A months road for most new cars is less what? 20 Euro? spread that over the other 11months or so... a few cent a day!

CiniO

si_guru wrote: »

If it makes you so angry why didn't you just buy a car in Ireland?

Also I think #3 would be the same in any country..

OMSP only applies to secondhand cars, so a new car would have VRT on the net invoice price (that's how my new m/cycle was done anyway).

It doesn't make me angry.
I am just surprised that law can be so much against ordinary people, and what more - that this law can make people to break it.

I bought in the north, because I couldn't find a car like I wanted in the Republic.

If you're saying VRT for new cars is calculated on net price, not on OMSP that's fair enough. Are you sure it's like this?

corktina

i cant be bothered reading all that so I'll answer 1 point now and the rest later:D.
When you buy a UK car you DO NOT send off the permanent export slip...that is for use when you export a car yourself. The seller should give you the v5C complete and write to the DVLA telling them the car has been sold to a foreign resident. This is on the DVLA websirte, worth reading it before we go further...

R.O.R

CiniO wrote: »

I live in the extremally rural area, so chance they will stop me near my home are like 1 to million. Problem arises when I'll travel to more civilised places.

Or when the revenue recieve the information from your insurance company, that there is a UK registered car at your address for more than 45 days.

si_guru

CiniO wrote: »

If you're saying VRT for new cars is calculated on net price, not on OMSP that's fair enough. Are you sure it's like this?

Honestly that is how my bike was done..

R.O.R

si_guru wrote: »

Honestly that is how my bike was done..

I think bikes are different to cars. Cars are done only by the % of the OMSP - whether new or used, from an Irish dealer or personally imported.

CiniO

R.O.R wrote: »

Or when the revenue recieve the information from your insurance company, that there is a UK registered car at your address for more than 45 days.

Do they really do that?

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get chance to do all the paperwork before 45 days last.

CiniO

si_guru wrote: »

..but imagine the complexity of having a pricing matrix calculated by the day! then you'd be saying "it mad I have to pay a full day when I taxed my car at 5pm"...

A months road for most new cars is less what? 20 Euro? spread that over the other 11months or so... a few cent a day!

It's not so complex....

My tax costs 155 euro for 3 months.
3 months consists of say 92 days.

155/92=1.68 per day.

So if I tax it on 29th of June, I suppose it would be fair to pay just for 2 days of June.

In case when other 28 days are paid, even I didn't need tax for this period is a rip-off. Revenue get extra 50 euros from me.
It doesn't matter if 50 euro is big amount or not. It's a matter of this, that Revenue would never give 50 euros to anyone for nothing, so why should we pay them?

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

It's not so complex....

My tax costs 155 euro for 3 months.
3 months consists of say 92 days.

155/92=1.68 per day.

So if I tax it on 29th of June, I suppose it would be fair to pay just for 2 days of June.

In case when other 28 days are paid, even I didn't need tax for this period is a rip-off. Revenue get extra 50 euros from me.
It doesn't matter if 50 euro is big amount or not. It's a matter of this, that Revenue would never give 50 euros to anyone for nothing, so why should we pay them?

As I said earlier, because those are the rules, like them or not.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

As I said earlier, because those are the rules, like them or not.

Thats actually bad attitude.
Like them, or try to change them - that's correct.

veetwin

OP you said you recently bought this car I assume you have been using it on the roads since then. Because of certain circumstances beyond your control you can only arrange to VRT/Tax it on 29th June...you then have a problem paying tax for June even though you will have used the car for much more than the two days you suggest. As a previous poster suggested why not buy a car in the Republic and have none of these problems?

chris85

CiniO wrote: »

Thats actually bad attitude.
Like them, or try to change them - that's correct.

What do you expect the outcome being of your non compliance. Do you think Brian Cowen will say well fair play to you, lets change the laws for this man here. I dont think so.

If you want to change the laws you setup a group or get a petition going and lobby the goverment for change as what you are doing wont change anything its just illegal.

et me give an example that is similar... lMany shops nowadays in certain areas of the city are lobbying for lowering of council rates. You dont see them just not paying it, as that would just be stupid. They go through the right channels and their voice is being heard. If one shopowner just stopped paying the rates noone would be the wiser of the cause.

CiniO

veetwin wrote: »

OP you said you recently bought this car I assume you have been using it on the roads since then. Because of certain circumstances beyond your control you can only arrange to VRT/Tax it on 29th June...you then have a problem paying tax for June even though you will have used the car for much more than the two days you suggest. As a previous poster suggested why not buy a car in the Republic and have none of these problems?

That's correct what you assume.
I bought a car, used it for some time, and now I'm complaining about tax that i have to pay whole month's price for just 2 days.

Yes, that's true - I've been driving this car for 10 days in June instead of 2. Still doesn't make any difference, as I'm forced to pay for 30 days.

Or, I can wait another 2 days, and then pay just for July.
It's a matter who's gonna rip-off who... is it revenue going to rip-off me, or me going to rip-off revenue.

CiniO

chris85 wrote: »

What do you expect the outcome being of your non compliance. Do you think Brian Cowen will say well fair play to you, lets change the laws for this man here. I dont think so.

If you want to change the laws you setup a group or get a petition going and lobby the goverment for change as what you are doing wont change anything its just illegal.

et me give an example that is similar... lMany shops nowadays in certain areas of the city are lobbying for lowering of council rates. You dont see them just not paying it, as that would just be stupid. They go through the right channels and their voice is being heard. If one shopowner just stopped paying the rates noone would be the wiser of the cause.

That's exactly what I meant.
You can't fight against stupid laws by breaking them.
If the law is stupid, we should fight against it. By pettitions, lobbys or even complaints to European commision.

The other side of the case, is that because law is stupid, no one is really enforcing it (because people who should enforce it understand it's stupid). And when no one is enforcing it, most would not obey that law.
And that's the case in here.

Problem is, that not right.

Mr Benevolent

CiniO wrote: »

That's correct what you assume.
I bought a car, used it for some time, and now I'm complaining about tax that i have to pay whole month's price for just 2 days.

Yes, that's true - I've been driving this car for 10 days in June instead of 2. Still doesn't make any difference, as I'm forced to pay for 30 days.

Or, I can wait another 2 days, and then pay just for July.
It's a matter who's gonna rip-off who... is it revenue going to rip-off me, or me going to rip-off revenue.

Look. If you don't VRT the car they will find out eventually. The longer the wait until it's found out = more chance it'll be impounded, you'll be fined OR it'll be crushed. You're lucky you don;t live in Denmark - their VRT is 200%. Pay your damn tax like the rest of us. Social responsibilities are not optional.

mathepac

OP I get the impression that all you want to do is rant about a process you don't understand, didn't research very well and now that posters have taken the time and trouble to explain what you didn't know, you're still not happy.

CiniO

Confab wrote: »

Look. If you don't VRT the car they will find out eventually. The longer the wait until it's found out = more chance it'll be impounded, you'll be fined OR it'll be crushed. You're lucky you don;t live in Denmark - their VRT is 200%. Pay your damn tax like the rest of us. Social responsibilities are not optional.

Calm down...
I never said I want to avoid paying VRT.

I just don't like being treated not fair or ripped-off for no reason (mostly about tax or nct for imported cars).

Besides I like to analyse everything that happens around.
So far, I didn't find any way, customs may actually know how long have I been driving this car in Ireland, until they'll really stop me.
I can always say, I just brought it from UK today.

But that's not the case. I want to keep off trouble and I'll pay VRT. If you are concerned so much, I'll inform you personally when I do it


And about being lucky. Hmmm Maybe Danmark has high registration taxes. Netherland also. But most countries in Europe doesn't have VRT at all.
So there isn't any reason to be happy.

CiniO

mathepac wrote: »

OP I get the impression that all you want to do is rant about a process you don't understand, didn't research very well and now that posters have taken the time and trouble to explain what you didn't know, you're still not happy.

A started this thread just to make sure about few things.
Now I think I know everything about this subject.

Anyway discussion started so I'm carrying it on.

I also just wanted to put attention of yous, that VRT rate is much higher that they pretend it to be.

But no one seems to be interested. Instead you prefer to say how bad I am that I'm even thinking about all this, instead of paying all that I have to pay.

In the thread just below in this forum, someone is asking what can he expect while speeding like 100km/h over the limit.
And so far no one told him anything personal.

What do you think is worse for society - crazy driver who can't limit himself and kill someone, or someone who is thinking about tax system and complaining about few nonsences in it.

mgbgt1978

what some people would do is to wait until the 1st july to pay the VRT .
While the VRT can sometimes drop slightly each month there is usually a bigger drop each July . This is because 1/2 of the year has elapsed and the VRT calculator takes this into account.
Two years ago I imported a car from the UK in July and the VRT was €198 less than if I had brought in the same car in June.