Graduate Training Programme

kellyj77

Hi

I have just been called for an interview graduate program with a financial services bank. I had aptitude tests which I passed and thankfully have now been called for the interview.

However one problem, the woman sent me an email with information about the program and down the very end i noticed that it says minimum entry requirements are a 2.1. I unfortunately got a high 2.2 (57%) average. I was expecting a 2.1 however lost a few silly marks. I completed the business and economics program in Trinity.

Wii the bank totally disregard me when they learn i got the high 2.2 or will they understand. I am just a little worried and disappointed as i worked so so hard in my final year and was well on the way to a 2.1 until the final set of exams. I am now worried they will totally disregard me and also that i wont find a graduate position now.

TelePaul

kellyj77 wrote: »

Hi

I have just been called for an interview graduate program with a financial services bank. I had aptitude tests which I passed and thankfully have now been called for the interview.

However one problem, the woman sent me an email with information about the program and down the very end i noticed that it says minimum entry requirements are a 2.1. I unfortunately got a high 2.2 (57%) average. I was expecting a 2.1 however lost a few silly marks. I completed the business and economics program in Trinity.

Wii the bank totally disregard me when they learn i got the high 2.2 or will they understand. I am just a little worried and disappointed as i worked so so hard in my final year and was well on the way to a 2.1 until the final set of exams. I am now worried they will totally disregard me and also that i wont find a graduate position now.

Interesting. I'd imagine that if it was such a strict criterion, careful attention would be paid to it in the screening process...you were asked to disclose grade info, right? Or it was noted on your CV that you got a 2.2?

If you've already disclosed it to them - or if nobody asked you explicitly for grades - I'd say nothing. That said, there's a good chance it may come up in interview, as academics and college experiences usually play a large part. You've still got time to come up with a good excuse - a friend of mine did terrible in his leaving cert, but studied accountancy abroad and has accomplished so much since then that nobody mentions his results.

I would explain that you had a particularly bad exam in a subject that you considered yourself to be particularly strong in, preferably a non-finance subject - anyone can have a bad day. It's also a good idea to explain how you've worked to overcome any weaknesses, as this puts a positive slant on things...it's tough, but very few people have a perfect academic record. Also, given that recruitment in the financial services sector is extremely constricted, there must have been something in your CV or aptitude scores that they liked.

In short, don't lose faith! Know your CV inside out, use the 'STAR' framework to sell your strengths and think of examples in which you've overcome weaknesses.

kellyj77

When originally applying i didnt know my results but said I was expecting a 2.1, which i was. As i said i just missed out. Would it make any difference that it is a high 2.2 in the BESS program. Does not getting a 2.1 totally rule you out of a graduate program.
I know i am well able for one. I had a very tough year. I had a baby with my girlfriend at 22 while working as a part time manager of a flagship sports store to make ends meet.

I put so much work into my college so as i said i was disappointed not to get the 2.1 and afraid i will loose out on graduate positions

Penisland

kellyj77 wrote: »

When originally applying i didnt know my results but said I was expecting a 2.1, which i was. As i said i just missed out. Would it make any difference that it is a high 2.2 in the BESS program. Does not getting a 2.1 totally rule you out of a graduate program.
I know i am well able for one. I had a very tough year. I had a baby with my girlfriend at 22 while working as a part time manager of a flagship sports store to make ends meet.

I put so much work into my college so as i said i was disappointed not to get the 2.1 and afraid i will loose out on graduate positions

I have always wondered about this, like someone who gets a first could be completely useless in the workforce where as someone like yourself with a 2.2. and who is probable a grafter (since you worked as a manager whilst in college!!) could actually be a better worker. hmmmmmm I don’t know....tell them about your personal circumstances and if you got a 2.1. in previous years, really sell this!!!


Best of luck mate and let us know how ya get on!!

TelePaul

kellyj77 wrote: »

When originally applying i didnt know my results but said I was expecting a 2.1, which i was. As i said i just missed out. Would it make any difference that it is a high 2.2 in the BESS program. Does not getting a 2.1 totally rule you out of a graduate program.
I know i am well able for one. I had a very tough year. I had a baby with my girlfriend at 22 while working as a part time manager of flagship sports store to make ends meet.

I put so much work into my college so as i said i was disappointed not to get the 2.1 and afraid i will loose out on graduate positions

Chill brah, nothing is set in stone. As you probably know, the graduate route is less prevalent these days, and in most cases the term 'graduate program' is used mostly to distinguish from experienced hires. So dont sweat the monikers too much, you have an interview and that's more than alot of people get these days. Some interviewers can take a hard-line when it comes to academic requirements, others will overlook even explicit criteria if you have something they value.

With regard to what I would call extenuating personal circumstances, obviously you had other things on your mind in your final year. Whether you choose to bring those to the table in your interview is a call you'll have to make. It could go either way, but it certainly explains why you might have fallen at the last hurdle, so-to-speak. Part-time manager? Gold-dust mate. Unless the role is quantitative-based or computing derivatives or some such, your soft-skills will be a huge talking-point; leadership, teamwork, conflict resolution, the way you handle and perform under pressure etc.

kellyj77

Yeah i got a 2.1 in previous years. Does it make a difference that i was so close to a 2.1 this year but just missed out.

I was advised to keep the personal bit close to my chest as i dont know what way they would react. Yeah i was originally a staff member for a year in a well known sports store and was asked to apply for part time manager which i have been for the last 3 years. Like I know i would be able for the work and study as that what i have done for the last 4 years. The managers job had a lot of responsibility while trying to study aswell. It was a very tough final year and of course i would have loved to be totally work free and for the year but i coulnt

davey_j_c

I have a feeling I know which company you are applying for. Check for a thread on it in here.

The one thing I would say about graduate positions is that even if you impressed in the interview, the job offer is usually conditional based on the receipt of a 2.1 grade. However there is a way around this

If I was you OP I would not talk about my results at this stage if possible. If they press you on the issue say you have not received them, or that you are awaiting an appeal, something along those lines. Then just try and blow them away in the interview. If you get to the next stage, then you may have to mention it - but at that stage you will hopefully have impressed them enough and earn yourself some leeway.

They are going to hire you on their impressions of you and your ability to represent their company well and do a good job.

A few percentage points wont make a difference if you impress enough in the interview believe me.

kellyj77

do people with 2.2s get graduate positions?
surely it has to stand to me that it was business and economics as im sure a high 2.2 in that course is far better than even high 2.1s in other institutes? surely they rtake that into account?

Penisland

kellyj77 wrote: »

do people with 2.2s get graduate positions?
surely it has to stand to me that it was business and economics as im sure a high 2.2 in that course is far better than even high 2.1s in other institutes? surely they rtake that into account?

Come on now Kelly don’t have that type of elitist opinion! :mad:

kellyj77

ah no im not like that at all...i got mid 500s in my leaving and kno people who got low 300s and did 3 year courses in similar subjects in other institutes with far far less workloads and breezed to a 2.1. Where i genuinely worked my arse off

TelePaul

kellyj77 wrote: »

ah no im not like that at all...i got mid 500s in my leaving and kno people who got low 300s and did 3 year courses in similar subjects in other institutes with far far less workloads and breezed to a 2.1. Where i genuinely worked my arse off

Horses for courses. Grade inflation was a pretty big story in recent news but I'm not sure what conclusions were drawn from it. Whatever the case, justifying your grade by comparing Trinity to other colleges isn't the right way to go about things and is probably the quickest way to fail the interview.

To be totally honest, you seem to me to be a bit pre-occupied by the whole 2.2 thing...again, worrying is not the best way to prepare for an interview. You got the call which means they're interested in you. You've justified your 2.2 to us here on boards, if the worst happens you can always do the same in the interview (without mentioning the academic standing of other institutions!)

Tiddlers

For what it's worth, I remember my year head in my final year of college telling us not to get too worked up about a 2:1 or 2:2. I remember him saying that often an employer might view a person who has a 2:1 as a slave to their books and too focussed on grades when at the end of the day it's the application of what you learn and how you can balance all aspects of your life & work that counts the most.Grades & college will be forgotten before long. Nobody is going to be giving you A, B or C grades at work; you just have to prove yourself.

Penisland

Tiddlers wrote: »

For what it's worth, I remember my year head in my final year of college telling us not to get too worked up about a 2:1 or 2:2. I remember him saying that often an employer might view a person who has a 2:1 as a slave to their books and too focussed on grades when at the end of the day it's the application of what you learn and how you can balance all aspects of your life & work that counts the most.Grades & college will be forgotten before long. Nobody is going to be giving you A, B or C grades at work; you just have to prove yourself.

Think this is more for people who get a 1.1. and is where I have somewhat luckily find myself. Doing a masters next year so have been just looking for summer work and am hearing nothing back!! Dont want to dumb down my C.V. after working my ****e off (literally lost 2 stone in the last two months!) but think I may have too

Tiddlers

Penisland wrote: »

Think this is more for people who get a 1.1. and is where I have somewhat luckily find myself. Doing a masters next year so have been just looking for summer work and am hearing nothing back!! Dont want to dumb down my C.V. after working my ****e off (literally lost 2 stone in the last two months!) but think I may have too

Well,I think these days work experience counts more and is more appealing to many employers than degrees and grades so definitely emphasise this aspect on your cv. But that's just my humble opinion & experience.I graduated about 2 years ago and have never done a masters but I managed to get a good job with little more than some previous experience & perseverance.

Penisland

Tiddlers wrote: »

Well,I think these days work experience counts more and is more appealing to many employers than degrees and grades so definitely emphasise this aspect on your cv. But that's just my humble opinion & experience.I graduated about 2 years ago and have never done a masters but I managed to get a good job with little more than some previous experience & perseverance.

Ye like that’s what I have done and I’ve had my cv reviewed by the careers service in college and they said it was very strong (I showed them one before a few years ago and they said it was crap :P so I know they weren’t just pleasing me). I have more or less worked since I turned 16 apart from a gap of 8 months and have some management consultancy experience, and a good bit of experience in other various things! I have a few academic awards as well……………….so you can see why I think I might need to dumb it down a bit considering I’m just looking for summer work……nearly july now :mad:

cronos

Penisland wrote: »

Ye like that’s what I have done and I’ve had my cv reviewed by the careers service in college and they said it was very strong (I showed them one before a few years ago and they said it was crap :P so I know they weren’t just pleasing me). I have more or less worked since I turned 16 apart from a gap of 8 months and have some management consultancy experience, and a good bit of experience in other various things! I have a few academic awards as well……………….so you can see why I think I might need to dumb it down a bit considering I’m just looking for summer work……nearly july now :mad:

Management Consulting? Are you a mature student. Very odd for a consultancy to take someone on doing that type of work before they graduate. Even if they are a genius because it looks bad if they are client facing.

davey_j_c

Sorry to burst your bubble OP but Penisland is right

If you even remotely hint that your degree is tougher/better/more prestigious than one from any other institution you will be heading for the door pretty quick.

After all, do you think someone interviewing you will share your views if they came from an NUI or an IT? I certainly don't. This is something you really need to get out of your head going forward looking for jobs.

Penisland - I know its tough but would you consider doing something unpaid if nothing else crops up? Depending on what aprt of the country your in there could be some good opportunities to beef up the cv with some more work experience

Penisland

Nope not a mature student, just kind of fell into it! Was very lucky!

Last year, ye fine I would have taken an unpaid job, but I have 12 cent in my bank account, so I really need to earn some money and quick!

kellyj77

What is the 'STAR' framework??
I fully understand the reasons behind comparing my course to another so maybe I should just focus on selling what i have learned in my course rather than compare it to others.

Going to start studying certain areas now. Anyone any tips on what areas i should study for this accounting/finance graduate degree programme.

Obviously going to know my cv inside out, know the company inside out and any of their clients and competitors. Im also thinking of looking at forums relating to the economic climate of the country and world at present..are there any other ideas i should look at that they may ask

Penisland

kellyj77 wrote: »

What is the 'STAR' framework??
I fully understand the reasons behind comparing my course to another so maybe I should just focus on selling what i have learned in my course rather than compare it to others.

Going to start studying certain areas now. Anyone any tips on what areas i should study for this accounting/finance graduate degree programme.

Obviously going to know my cv inside out, know the company inside out and any of their clients and competitors. Im also thinking of looking at forums relating to the economic climate of the country and world at present..are there any other ideas i should look at that they may ask

WOW and I thought Trinity was the best college in Ireland!! Did they not even teach you how to use Google!! You will easily find what it is......

davey_j_c

Penisland wrote: »

Last year, ye fine I would have taken an unpaid job, but I have 12 cent in my bank account, so I really need to earn some money and quick!

I know the feeling. But what about organising a loan or an overdraft if the worst comes to worst. You will (hopefully) be earning money for the rest of your life after college. Experience is key at this stage, especially going in to do a masters - you need to make this summer count.

kellyj77 wrote: »

What is the 'STAR' framework??

Situation Task Action Result. For competency based interviews and answers... Tell me a time when you did this/that etc. Follow this framework when answering. There will be loads of info on Google or even Youtub

kellyj77 wrote: »

maybe I should just focus on selling what i have learned in my course rather than compare it to others.

Spot on. Focus on its difficulty if you want to saying that it has prepared you for the working world etc etc.

kellyj77

Penisland wrote: »

WOW and I thought Trinity was the best college in Ireland!! Did they not even teach you how to use Google!! You will easily find what it is......

No wasn't part of the curriculum ha

amen

great thread!

do people with 2.2s get graduate positions

unbelievable. I graduated in 1994 with a 2.2 as did most of my class. out of approx 24 there were two 1.1, 4 2.1, 1 fail, 1 pass and everyone else was a 2.2.

The fact you had a 2.2 was good enough for a graduate position.

some management consultancy experience

really ? explain ? Unless you have worked as a manager and extensive experience in the industry you are consulting on then you have no management consultancy experience.

ah no im not like that at all...i got mid 500s in my leaving and kno people who got low 300s and did 3 year courses in similar subjects in other institutes with far far less workloads and breezed to a 2.1. Where i genuinely worked my arse off

maybe thats the problem. You got 500 in the leaving cert where you can rote learn and provide standard answers. In University you actually have to think and learn for your self. Maybe those who got 300 points can actually self learn and are self starters.

cerebus

amen wrote: »

really ? explain ? Unless you have worked as a manager and extensive experience in the industry you are consulting on then you have no management consultancy experience.

While I would imagine management experience and industry expertise would be beneficial, I can tell you that I know lots of people who just graduated from my MBA program who have neither and who have been hired by leading consulting firms. Most of these firms look for the ability to reason through problems in a structured, logical manner as the key requirement.

TelePaul

amen wrote: »

really ? explain ? Unless you have worked as a manager and extensive experience in the industry you are consulting on then you have no management consultancy experience.

That's not true. The majority of consultancy firms run grad. programs and are very keen to recruit college leavers of a particular mindset, who, working for a consultancy firm, would of course claim to be experienced in Management Consultancy. In the course of an internship, I was lucky enough to find myself part of a large ERP implementation. I was a small cog in an extremely large wheel, and while I never discussed corporate strategy with the CEO over lunch, but I learnt a great deal about process-modelling and analytical thinking.

TelePaul

kellyj77 wrote: »

What is the 'STAR' framework??
I fully understand the reasons behind comparing my course to another so maybe I should just focus on selling what i have learned in my course rather than compare it to others.

Going to start studying certain areas now. Anyone any tips on what areas i should study for this accounting/finance graduate degree programme.

Obviously going to know my cv inside out, know the company inside out and any of their clients and competitors. Im also thinking of looking at forums relating to the economic climate of the country and world at present..are there any other ideas i should look at that they may ask

This is key. I'd look at proposed remedies to the current situation from a finance point of view and look for any perceived weaknesses a la NAMA. There's so much you could be asked about monetary theory and the state of the nation and the world at large, so if I were you I'd spend alot of time preparing examples and discussion points. Remember, 80% of the interview should comprise you talking.

Penisland

TelePaul wrote: »

That's not true. The majority of consultancy firms run grad. programs and are very keen to recruit college leavers of a particular mindset, who, working for a consultancy firm, would of course claim to be experienced in Management Consultancy. In the course of an internship, I was lucky enough to find myself part of a large ERP implementation. I was a small cog in an extremely large wheel, and while I never discussed corporate strategy with the CEO over lunch, but I learnt a great deal about process-modelling and analytical thinking.

SNAP!!

amen

so working as a small cog in a large project gives you management consultancy experience.

So I assume you understand the entire erp project from start to finish with an excellant high level over view and the ability to dive into any subsection of the project and understand and communicate all of the individual specific rules and understand the impact of a change in one part of the project on the rest of the project?

I can tell you that I know lots of people who just graduated from my MBA program who have neither and who have been hired by leading consulting firms. Most of these firms look for the ability to reason through problems in a structured, logical manner as the key requirement.

what these firms do is hire grads, pay you a salary may 30K and then charge you out at prob 60K and take the difference.

Looks at the PPars project.

TelePaul

amen wrote: »

so working as a small cog in a large project gives you management consultancy experience.

Yes of course, why wouldn't it? Do you think these projects stand or fall at the whims of a single person? The practice itself - or rather, the global industry - is contingent on certain ubiquitous frameworks, support systems and best practices, though from a talent-management point of view, analytical thinking and problem solving is championed across the board.

amen wrote: »

So I assume you understand the entire erp project from start to finish with an excellant high level over view and the ability to dive into any subsection of the project and understand and communicate all of the individual specific rules and understand the impact of a change in one part of the project on the rest of the project?

Of course not - that would be quite the assumption! Nor could any one member of the hundred plus project team. Nor was it required of them. The project rolled out in various phases over a two to three year period, people rolled on and rolled off at various intervals.

amen wrote: »

what these firms do is hire grads, pay you a salary may 30K and then charge you out at prob 60K and take the difference.

You've just described every professional services firm ever. Legal, Accountancy, whatever. Of course, it doesn't last forever, there is progression and attrition, Vitality Curve etc.

amen wrote: »

Looks at the PPars project.

What of it? A botched, state funded consultancy project. Not the first and certainly wont be the last.

cerebus

amen wrote: »

so working as a small cog in a large project gives you management consultancy experience.

So I assume you understand the entire erp project from start to finish with an excellant high level over view and the ability to dive into any subsection of the project and understand and communicate all of the individual specific rules and understand the impact of a change in one part of the project on the rest of the project?

what these firms do is hire grads, pay you a salary may 30K and then charge you out at prob 60K and take the difference.

As someone pointed out, that's a pretty classic professional services business model.

The people I know are mostly going into Associate roles with leading strategy consulting firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG, etc.) so they work in small teams with pretty senior people on the client side. I think it is fair to say they have a high-level understanding of what they are working on. (And I am pretty sure starting salaries are good - though the consulting firm will still make a healthy margin).