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What have FG and Labour ever done for this country ?

  • 24-06-2010 02:53PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭


    Though only an infrequent user of this message board I cannot help but notice it is dominated by FG and Labour supporters who have made a career out of bashing FF. Lets be honest, any fool can do what these people engage in. How they do not get bored repeating the same drivel is beyond me.
    Perhaps these people can attempt to break the monotony by explaining what FG and Labour have ever done for this country. Labour are nearly 100 years old and FG nearly 80 years old and when you look back at their history simply nothing stands out that one can say was of benefit to the country, especially in the area of economics. Every time they came to power the people could not wait to get rid of them !!. Even now they seem certain to win the next election but you can bet your last cent they will be exposed as the frauds they are and the people might turn to the old reliable, FF. They talk about FF corruption but for goodness sake hundreds of millions, maybe even billions for all I know, has been paid to these shysters for sitting in Dail Eireann year after year waffling on about nothing. How they manage to do this without a trace of conscience is a sore point with me.
    When FG hit its 75th anniversary it passed without any trace of celebration because of course they had nothing to celebrate and no doubt they as usual did not want to draw attention to their origins. Labour in 2012 will make absolutely certain their 100th passes without mention !!

    So, those of you boys and girls who plaster this message board with open hatred of FF lets hear you brag about what you see as the great achievements of FG and Labour.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    they usually come in power to cleanup the mess left by FF

    people have short memories unfortunately


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    FG
    80s - tried to clean up the mess left by the Jack Lynch govt, Anglo-Irish agreement, Tallaght strategy
    90s - CAB, built on Tallaght strategy and work of McSharry to kick start Celtic Tiger. Handed over very healthy economy in 97.

    It's not really FG/Labours fault that FF have bought every election since the year dot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    scr123 wrote: »
    They talk about FF corruption but for goodness sake hundreds of millions, maybe even billions for all I know, has been paid to these shysters for sitting in Dail Eireann year after year waffling on about nothing. How they manage to do this without a trace of conscience is a sore point with me.

    You do understand the difference between corruption, and earning your wages?? Corruption is not ingrained into Labour and Fine Gael. The you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours mentality is less prevailent in Labour and Fine Gael. Finally, the Galway tent. An example of every little thing that is wrong with the FF party. I could never see FG or labour resorting to this horse****e cosy, looking after each other mentaility with developers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    scr123 wrote: »
    Labour are nearly 100 years old and FG nearly 80 years old and when you look back at their history simply nothing stands out that one can say was of benefit to the country, especially in the area of economics.

    Err, you should really look back on your history. It was Ruari Quinn of Labour, as Minister for Finance who introduced our low rates of corporation tax which then sparked huge FDI by multinationals and created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    If there was one single decision in government that did more to create sustainable jobs in this country then this was it. The construction industry which FF propped up is now blitzed but the multi-nationals largely remain and if we are to get out of this mess they are fundmentally more important than ever. One day history will record that decision by Ruari Quinn as one of the most important in the growth of our economy and yet still FF'ers will cry out that Labour in power would wreck the economy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    scr123 wrote: »
    Though only an infrequent user of this message board I cannot help but notice it is dominated by FG and Labour supporters who have made a career out of bashing FF. Lets be honest, any fool can do what these people engage in. How they do not get bored repeating the same drivel is beyond me.

    From the very first sentence of that post you were wrong, on so many levels that I just have to reply (and I just know I'll regret not just ignoring it, but some things have to be said)

    1) I am not an "FG or Labour supporter"
    2) I am also not "any fool".....which is why I will never vote for your party

    As for "repeating the same drivel", well, go ask your beloved hierarchy who have repeated the same - false - drivel about "Lehman Bros" and "Global Recession" and "we have turned a corner" for the last 3 years.

    People who point out where FF have failed miserably and engaged in corruption do not have to be supporters of alternatives with some nasty, hidden agenda; they may just happen to be people sickened by corruption and incompetence.

    However having seen your "infrequent" posts claiming to be a "staunch" supporter of FF, no matter what, and talking with zero objectivity as if FF were the greatest thing since sliced bread, I doubt that will get through to you.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    Liam and others. Read the title of the thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,952 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    scr123 wrote: »
    Though only an infrequent user of this message board I cannot help but notice it is dominated by FG and Labour supporters who have made a career out of bashing FF. Lets be honest, any fool can do what these people engage in. How they do not get bored repeating the same drivel is beyond me.
    Perhaps these people can attempt to break the monotony by explaining what FG and Labour have ever done for this country. Labour are nearly 100 years old and FG nearly 80 years old and when you look back at their history simply nothing stands out that one can say was of benefit to the country, especially in the area of economics. Every time they came to power the people could not wait to get rid of them !!. Even now they seem certain to win the next election but you can bet your last cent they will be exposed as the frauds they are and the people might turn to the old reliable, FF. They talk about FF corruption but for goodness sake hundreds of millions, maybe even billions for all I know, has been paid to these shysters for sitting in Dail Eireann year after year waffling on about nothing. How they manage to do this without a trace of conscience is a sore point with me.
    When FG hit its 75th anniversary it passed without any trace of celebration because of course they had nothing to celebrate and no doubt they as usual did not want to draw attention to their origins. Labour in 2012 will make absolutely certain their 100th passes without mention !!

    So, those of you boys and girls who plaster this message board with open hatred of FF lets hear you brag about what you see as the great achievements of FG and Labour.

    Id hazard a gess that the reson the majority of posters here are anti FF is somewhat similar to the reason the majority of the electroate are anti ff. Also most FF supporters i know wouldnt exactly be au fait with internet if you know what i mean. As for labour not celebrating it's centenary why wouldnt it???:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    KerranJast wrote: »
    80s - tried to clean up the mess left by the Jack Lynch govt

    Haughey also played a great deal in ensuring this mess was so bad, but in fairness, it was to be said that that coalition failed dismally in this regard.
    KerranJast wrote: »
    Anglo-Irish agreement

    This was a failure.The idea that it "created" the peace process is a complete myth.I have outlined my views on this agreement in several threads, so I won't bore ye again.
    KerranJast wrote: »
    Tallaght strategy

    Completely agree on this point.While a lot of members on this forum don't like Dukes any more because of his involvement with Anglo, I still maintain that he was the best Taoiseach we never had.
    KerranJast wrote: »

    90s - CAB

    I was of the opinion that this was John O'Donoghues brain child?Of course, we can't really give him credit for anything any more can we?
    KerranJast wrote: »
    built on Tallaght strategy

    Can you elaborate on this point please?
    KerranJast wrote: »

    work of McSharry to kick start Celtic Tiger.

    In fairness it wasn't only Mcsharry who helped create the Celtic Tiger, other guys deserve a lot of credit-especially Albert Reynolds who is often ignored.The term "celtic tiger" was first mentioned in 1994, during the FF-Labour coalition.
    KerranJast wrote: »
    FG
    Handed over very healthy economy in 97.

    Agree on this point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    Why should we be judging parties on previous members actions?

    The next election has nothing to do with Lynch surely.

    When I look at the parties today I see a FF that is willing to take what measures necessary with regards monetary aspects, but fail with regards to social policy.

    I see a FG that are trying desperately hard not to appear too much like their opposition, but are really offering more of the same.

    I see a Green party who are happy to tackle insignificant issues from their own perspective, but lack the ability to stand their own ground on important issues.

    I see a SF unfit for a modern Ireland.

    And I see a Labour party I once despised with what now seem to be intelligent arguments, far sighted objectives and concrete honest objectives regarding true change in government.

    I am not going to vote for the party that became the face of the good years, or the party that criticized the bad years, I'm going to vote for the party that looks the best option for now not 20 years ago.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    A thread challenging FG and Labour is turned into more attacks on FF with feeble efforts to address the topic.

    Clean up mess made by FF - the problems were multiplied !!

    Tallaght Strategy - the reaction of Alan Dukes because he knew the government he had been a member of had failed miserably to tackle the problems of the economy. In fact 3 ex leaders of FG have come out in last two years and admitted their hands were tied by Labour. Will always admire Dukes for his action but the poor guy was shafted for doing something worthwhile. BTW, never understood how an intelligent person like him was a member of FG

    CAB - lying on government shelves for years gathering dust until the brutal murder of Veronica Guerin

    Anglo Irish Agreement - what can one say other than OUT ! OUT ! OUT !

    Kick started and handed over a healthy economy - they took over an economy with a £300m Budget surplus and handed back an economy with a £300m Budget deficit. Whatever happened that £600m, huge money in those days.

    Lack of response to the challenge to FG and Labour reflects how shallow and empty they are and once again proves that other than attacking FF their sheet is blank. God help us if they actually do get in to government together !!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Labour opposed the bank guaranatee and subsequent bailouts. The fact that they weren't in a position to prevent them is not Labour's fault, but the electorate's for voting in FF time after time after time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭maynooth_rules


    scr123, is there anything that you cant back up Fianna Fail on. You even try and defend the indefensible when it comes to FF. Take off the party blinkered glasses


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    KerranJast wrote: »
    FG
    80s - tried to clean up the mess left by the Jack Lynch govt, Anglo-Irish agreement, Tallaght strategy
    90s - CAB, built on Tallaght strategy and work of McSharry to kick start Celtic Tiger. Handed over very healthy economy in 97.

    It's not really FG/Labours fault that FF have bought every election since the year dot.

    if they bought every election surely they would have won every election :rolleyes: ffs people here cant be rational at all when it comes to discussing political parties.

    rabble rabble fianna fail galway tent rabble developers rabble brown envelopes rabble rabble..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Wide Road wrote: »
    Liam and others. Read the title of the thread.

    The title of the thread is an indication, but the original question in the first post was based on a massive number of false, biased and downright deluded opinions.

    I think it's perfectly OK to challenge those before answering the question, as they give an indication that no matter what is said in answer to the question, it won't be accepted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    scr123, is there anything that you cant back up Fianna Fail on. You even try and defend the indefensible when it comes to FF. Take off the party blinkered glasses

    I rarely, if ever, defend FF. What I try to do is elicit from the Opposition what exactly it is that they have and FF do not have. So far I have failed miserably in this little hobby simply because the Opposition refuse to talk about themselves and want to do nothing else but attack FF. This thread is a classic example and in reality is a missed opportunity for the Opposition to attempt to sell themselves as a serious alternative to FF.

    One good thing the FG/Lab govt did in the 1980's was to defeat the crazy inflation rate that had been around the neck of the country since the first oil crsis in the 70's. Either a lack of knowledge of economics or cowardice because they would have to explain how they defeated inflation are the only explanations why these parties refuse to brag about their success


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    scr123 wrote: »
    One good thing the FG/Lab govt did in the 1980's was to defeat the crazy inflation rate that had been around the neck of the country since the first oil crsis in the 70's. Either a lack of knowledge of economics or cowardice because they would have to explain how they defeated inflation are the only explanations why these parties refuse to brag about their success

    Well you said at the start that FG/Labour haven't done a single thing for the benefit of the country, and now you have answered your question - yes, they have done at least one good thing for the country.

    /thread IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    scr123 wrote: »
    Labour are nearly 100 years old and FG nearly 80 years old and when you look back at their history simply nothing stands out that one can say was of benefit to the country, especially in the area of economics. .

    How about Ruari Quinns (During the Rainbow Government of 1994-7)
    12.5% corperation tax?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

    Name me a single FF economic change that has as much influence on growth in your lifetime?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    scr123 wrote: »
    I rarely, if ever, defend FF.

    Most of your posts suggest otherwise, with every single justified criticism of FF dismissed as "bashing" or assuming that the poster in question has an agenda due to being a supporter of another party.

    There's even one example in your opening post:
    scr123 wrote: »
    They talk about FF corruption but for goodness sake hundreds of millions, maybe even billions for all I know, has been paid to these shysters for sitting in Dail Eireann year after year waffling on about nothing. How they manage to do this without a trace of conscience is a sore point with me.

    Being ****e at a job that you're getting paid for is not comparable to corruption, and even suggesting that it is is just an attempt at deflecting from the corruption.

    And even leaving aside the corruption, the "****e at their job" description also includes Ahern & Cowen & - to an extent - Lenihan. So why don't those 3 grate on you as much as those from FG & Labour who are ****e at theirs ?

    Plus, highlighting the corruption of Ahern & Callely & Co is part of what I'd expect from them doing their jobs.
    scr123 wrote: »
    So, those of you boys and girls who plaster this message board with open hatred of FF lets hear you brag about what you see as the great achievements of FG and Labour.

    As I said, objecting to and highlighting corruption would be one.
    Sowing the seeds for the economic growth that we had in the late 90s would be another.

    But there's no point in me "bragging" about it, because (a) it's just their job and (b) I'm not a supporter or member of either, so all I want is for them to do the job they get paid for, and they'll get no bragging or massive praise for doing it, because that's what they're paid for.....I'm not one for clapping a pilot for actually getting me to the destination!

    I am, however, one for justifiably criticising the pilot who crashes the feckin' plane!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 512 ✭✭✭wilson10


    scr123 wrote: »
    A thread challenging FG and Labour is turned into more attacks on FF with feeble efforts to address the topic.

    Clean up mess made by FF - the problems were multiplied !!

    Tallaght Strategy - the reaction of Alan Dukes because he knew the government he had been a member of had failed miserably to tackle the problems of the economy. In fact 3 ex leaders of FG have come out in last two years and admitted their hands were tied by Labour. Will always admire Dukes for his action but the poor guy was shafted for doing something worthwhile. BTW, never understood how an intelligent person like him was a member of FG

    CAB - lying on government shelves for years gathering dust until the brutal murder of Veronica Guerin

    Anglo Irish Agreement - what can one say other than OUT ! OUT ! OUT !

    Kick started and handed over a healthy economy - they took over an economy with a £300m Budget surplus and handed back an economy with a £300m Budget deficit. Whatever happened that £600m, huge money in those days.

    Lack of response to the challenge to FG and Labour reflects how shallow and empty they are and once again proves that other than attacking FF their sheet is blank. God help us if they actually do get in to government together !!


    God help us! Give us an example of how we could be worse off than we are.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    wilson10 wrote: »
    God help us! Give us an example of how we could be worse off than we are.

    If people with views like scr123 were in the majority, we'd be worse off for sure


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    wilson10 wrote: »
    God help us! Give us an example of how we could be worse off than we are.

    if anglo was let fall and a run on the banks occurred such as what happened in iceland we would be worse off. just a hypothetical example of how we could be worse off ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    I still don't understand why people judge parties on what was done in a different time by different people...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    I still don't understand why people judge parties on what was done in a different time by different people...

    It's more than that. This thread is a perfect example. It's about FG and Labour, yet posters are on about FF. Is it a complex or jealousy that they (god knows how) are in govt for as long as they are. Talk about FG and Labour, don't be ashamed of them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    Wide Road wrote: »
    It's more than that. This thread is a perfect example. It's about FG and Labour, yet posters are on about FF. Is it a complex or jealousy that they (god knows how) are in govt for as long as they are. Talk about FG and Labour, don't be ashamed of them.

    I see a good few comments on FG and Labour, naturally given the thread title and the venomous nature of the original post many have chosen to speak of other parties in contrast with FF. If it were titled "top moments in parties histories" and the first post kicked it off in a friendly way, for example asking people what they thought and giving a universally recognised example then I'm sure things would be different.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    I'm not going to make people limit their contributions to "what FG or Labour" have done for the country, especially given the opening post, which doesn't invite much reasoned discussion. However, I always reckon such questions are better answered with something other than "based on past and especially recent history they're better than the other shower (or your shower) of incompetent corrupt numpties who can't be trusted to bring back a pail of water from the free well". Regardless of whether or not that's true and even if there are examples provided of being an incompetent corrupt numpty who can't find the well. It's always nice to have a chance for a thread with lots of sunshine, rainbows and lollipops, we get so few of those... Up to yourselves really.

    However, I've deleted some silly handbagging after this post from a duo of forum members that could know better if they put the handbags away. I've taken the liberty of just deleting the silliness instead. It was nowhere near anything to do with the thread.

    /mod


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    This post has been deleted.
    The aqueduct? :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    aDeener wrote: »
    if anglo was let fall and a run on the banks occurred such as what happened in iceland we would be worse off. just a hypothetical example of how we could be worse off ;)

    The guarantee would have stopped a run on AIB and BOI without saving Anglo. Including Anglo in the guarantee was more about who had money in anglo rather than any other consideration.

    Iceland has a lower rate of unemployment than Ireland. Just an example of how we are not better off than Iceland.

    If a partial collapse of the banks had been allowed we would have hit the bottom sooner and might actually be turning a corner now instead of the imaginary corner that we have now been turning for about a year.

    The guarantee led to Anglo nationalisation which led to NAMA. Most of the toxic loans transferred to NAMA have come from Anglo.

    The "hard" decisions made by FF were:

    Save Anglo not the taxpayer
    Prop up the bubble property market with NAMA instead of letting it find it's own level.
    Borrow 20 billion a year to give the illusion that we are "over the worst" instead of reduce spending by getting rid of quangos and various other FF party gravy trains. When in fact the worst is yet to come.

    The first of these borrowings will start to come due in 2012.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭mrboswell


    They provided and continue to provide an alternative, whether or not one deems the alternative to be better or worse.

    The simple fact is that having complacency from a government in power serves no one.

    Ideally competition should bring about change and knowing that you are not indispensable should make you perform better in the future.

    All opposing parties including FG and Labour have provided a service to this country. If the Irish people choose to ignore any alternative government during elections then we have to live with it.....unfortunately.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    mrboswell wrote: »
    All opposing parties including FG and Labour have provided a service to this country. If the enough Irish people choose to ignore any alternative government during elections then we have to live with it.....unfortunately.

    Small correction, but otherwise on-the-ball, especially the last word.


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