Planning inquiry -- Overkill or Overdue

scallioneater

There is a pending inquiry into how Carlow has been making planning decisions. Do you think all is well or do you find some decisions to be suspect?

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/council-planning-complaints-probed-2230416.html

foggy_lad

in carlow it is probably to do with the flooding of whole apartment blocks and why planning was given for them in the first place?

Thundercats Ho

Long overdue imo, and not just Carlow. Councillers have been making fortunes by 'helping' people get planning permission. If i had the proof i'd hang them all out to dry, but of course, i don't so it's untrue...

scallioneater

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Long overdue imo, and not just Carlow. Councillers have been making fortunes by 'helping' people get planning permission. If i had the proof i'd hang them all out to dry, but of course, i don't so it's untrue...

But Councillors don't make the planning decisions. It is essentially up to the planning office and the County Manager has the final decision. That's not to say that elected reps don't have some input, but 99% of decisions are made by the officials of Carlow County Council.

The Councillors are meant to be a watchdog on the officials, but that may be where they are asleep at the wheel.

If there is corruption, then the corruption must be systemic. If this is the case, the inquiry should to bring a lot of dirty laundry out into public view.

Thundercats Ho

scallioneater wrote: »

But Councillors don't make the planning decisions. It is essentially up to the planning office and the County Manager has the final decision. That's not to say that elected reps don't have some input, but 99% of decisions are made by the officials of Carlow County Council.

Well they're getting money for nothing then...
Listen its common knowledge what these councillers have been getting up to for years (and i've personal experience of this). they 'put pressure' on the planner to push your planning permission through, in return for a not so small donation.

scallioneater wrote: »

If there is corruption, then the corruption must be systemic. If this is the case, the inquiry should to bring a lot of dirty laundry out into public view.

Lets hope so.

scallioneater

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

they 'put pressure' on the planner to push your planning permission through, in return for a not so small donation.

But isn't the government official then failing in his/her professional obligation to ensure compliance with "proper planning"? (Whatever that means!!).

Is caving to 'pressure' just as corrupt as being paid a bribe? Should making representations be outlawed? Do we really want a sterilized planning system?

I've seen many nations and regardless of how stringent or advanced their planning systems, they are just as messed up as Ireland. Is Carlow's/Ireland's planning system really a problem?

maccored

i work in a local authority (not carlow) and councillors during the boom used to spend more time in the planning office (back with the staff, not out front) than anywhere else. The only reason they would be in there would be to harass the staff about planning cases.

racso1975

Well i would certainly be aware of one person who worked in planning that drew plans in private for individuals. His plans were crap but you would always get planning.


When we built our house not one person from the council came out to check that we abided to the planning permission.

What really pissed me off about the planning officers was we went to meet with one before submitting plans. And basically if she did not like something then you could not have it i.e. we wanted a porch out front, nope she did not like them hence dont submit plans with a porch.

Another example was we live in a mainly granite village and wanted to do the front of the house in granite, again no it had to be at a minimum the 3 sides ffs that brought the cost of build up another 30grand!!!

Meanwhile sister in law builds 5 years later, right next door and gets to do porch and just front of house. Why? Different officer in place

Complete BS!!!!

scallioneater

maccored wrote: »

The only reason they would be in there would be to harass the staff about planning cases.

racso1975 wrote: »

we live in a mainly granite village and wanted to do the front of the house in granite, again no it had to be at a minimum the 3 sides ffs that brought the cost of build up another 30grand!!!

Theses two quotes show a paradox of planning in Ireland. Mac complains that the Councillors were harassing the planning staff, but Rasco complains that the planning staff were harassing him.

Wouldn't Racso's outcome have been better if his/her local Councillor was able to go and explain to the planning officer that granite fronting wasn't neccessary on more than one side of the house? Or is that corruption?

Racso....Did you have any involvement with local Councillors?

maccored

none of the planning staff i know would be arsed harrassing councillors - especially a few years ago when they'd be completely off their feet

scallioneater

maccored wrote: »

none of the planning staff i know would be arsed harrassing councillors - especially a few years ago when they'd be completely off their feet

I might not have made it clear that Racso is an average person that was seeking permission to build a house in his/her village. Rasco felt that a planning official was imposing planning conditions unfairly -- No politicians involved as far as I can determine.

Politicians harass Planning Officials --- Planning Officials harass locals --- Locals harass Politicians.....The Great Circle of Life

racso1975

Nope no involvement with councillors. Never considered it to be honest. Had we not been granted then i'm sure we'd have gone down that route. But when told in a pre planning meeting what ya can and cant have you take it as a given

David09

I personally believe that the planning department in Carlow has been\is a total sham.
Theres a quarry locally which I won't name but everyone will know of, which has been operating for years upon years without a scrap of planning permission. Now that same quarry wishes to aquire a section of public road which is a hinderance to them so that they can expand ever greater in their operation. The same quarry, in the previous two years added a diesel processing plant, the height of the building of which is so great it can be seen for miles away at Killeshin hill. The building is located slap bang beside an old cemetary and is totally inappropriate. Still not a shred of planning permission.
A few miles down the road is a large unnamed garden centre which was developed 8 or 9 years ago. Part of the development required the removal of a large roadside embankement to provide a carpark. In levelling the embankement they encroached on council property as part of their development. Not a word was said about it.

It doesn't just affect big businesses. I know of quite a few domestic house builds which are so fundamentally wrong in their design and location that they should never been allowed and yet they were passed.

scallioneater

David09 wrote: »

I personally believe that the planning department in Carlow has been\is a total sham.
Theres a quarry locally which I won't name but everyone will know of.......... a large unnamed garden centre which was developed 8 or 9 years ago........ I know of quite a few domestic house builds.

I agree. My impression of planning in Carlow is that there are a couple of ways to get planning.

1. Be part of the Golden Circle. The local developers and government types that seem to never get refused.

2. Inward investment. Coming from outside with a million or two for investment. Build whatever you like.

2. Class centered planning permission. If you are perceived as being higher status, you will get more considerate planning. The connected sail through planning.

From my perspective, the worst thing you can be is an unconnected local who is trying to build their own house or to improve their home. These people are nit-picked to death by the planning department, while the big fish and outsiders are waved through to build their horrendous Mc Mansions.

David09

scallioneater wrote: »

I agree. My impression of planning in Carlow is that there are a couple of ways to get planning.

1. Be part of the Golden Circle. The local developers and government types that seem to never get refused.

2. Inward investment. Coming from outside with a million or two for investment. Build whatever you like.

2. Class centered planning permission. If you are perceived as being higher status, you will get more considerate planning. The connected sail through planning.

From my perspective, the worst thing you can be is an unconnected local who is trying to build their own house or to improve their home. These people are nit-picked to death by the planning department, while the big fish and outsiders are waved through to build their horrendous Mc Mansions.

Yep. They're not only inept but corrupt to the core.
Other examples from their hall of shame are the road into the industrial estate off the Dublin road which led nowhere because they couldn't decide who actually owned it, the Graiguecullen apartments that resemble a ghetto with sewage running down the outside walls, the submerged apartment block on Centaur Street and then there's Leighlinbridge...

Leighlinbridge is something like an inland version of Carlingford, Co. Louth. It's a desirable location, a colourful little village which has heritage and is appealing to tourists and non-locals passing through.

Do you think that Louth county council would allow a multi-storey, towering monstrosity with an ugly glass pyramid to be constructed slap bang in the middle of their picturesque village???
I'd think not.

scallioneater

David09 wrote: »

Yep. They're not only inept but corrupt to the core.
Other examples from their hall of shame are the road into the industrial estate off the Dublin road which led nowhere because they couldn't decide who actually owned it, the Graiguecullen apartments that resemble a ghetto with sewage running down the outside walls, the submerged apartment block on Centaur Street and then there's Leighlinbridge...

Leighlinbridge is something like an inland version of Carlingford, Co. Louth. It's a desirable location, a colourful little village which has heritage and is appealing to tourists and non-locals passing through.

Do you think that Louth county council would allow a multi-storey, towering monstrosity with an ugly glass pyramid to be constructed slap bang in the middle of their picturesque village???
I'd think not.

My favorite is the Town Center car park that they sold and then realized that the services were underneath it. They have to spend a fortune digging up all the surrounding streets to move the sewers etc.

David09

It's ironic, isn't it? I only posted the other day here about Carlow county council's lithany of irregularities and then on the news some poor guy forced to demolish his home in Co. Meath.
Proof that there's no consistancy in the laws.