Signing off on accounts.

ericteller

Hi all,
I hope someone can help with my query. I am self employed and pay an accounting technician each year to do up my accounts, which I am told are very straight forward.The accounting technician says that he has an accountant that he uses to assist him with my accounts. When I got my accounts back this year I noticed that the accountant has not signed his name at the end of my accounts. Also the accounts are not on headed paper although the accountants name and address are mentioned. When I asked the accounting technician why the accounts were not signed off he said that there is no need for the accountant to 'sign off' on accounts. Just wondering if this is correct?Any advice is much appreciated.

monariek

you need to establish whether the accounts need to be audited, and whether the accountant has audited the accounts or just prepared them for you.

if you require an audit and he hasnt done so, this is the reason he hasnt signed off on the accounts.

ericteller

The accounts are not audited, they are just my end of year accounts.

daisey87

If they are a sole trader end of year accounts and you are not operating through a company then there is no need for the accountant to sign the accounts.

J.Ryan

Contact the accountant named and ask for a signed set of accounts.


Its unusual if this was done every other year and not done this year, especially if his/her name is on the accountants report.

J.Ryan

daisey87 wrote: »

If they are a sole trader end of year accounts and you are not operating through a company then there is no need for the accountant to sign the accounts.

thats true, but from my reading of the origianal post the accountant is named in the set of accounts (and always has been), the original poster means the signing of the accountants report in the accounts that he receives, the fact that another firm is mentioned in the accounts is unusual.

hinault

ericteller wrote: »

The accounts are not audited, they are just my end of year accounts.

Couple of issues.

Are you a limited company?
If you are, have you availed of an audit exemption (exemptions can be granted under CRO rules if a company's turnover is less than a turnover threshold)?

Your company may not have to provide file audited accounts.

ericteller

Thanks for the replies, glad to hear that they don't need to be signed. I am a sole trader and I contract myself out to various businesses,the accountant has never signed the previous years accounts. To be honest I had not noticed before, it was just that a friend of mine was revenue audited recently and she showed me her accounts with the accountants name signed at the bottom of the page. She is a sole trader too and her accounts were not audited but her accountant has always signed her accounts.

daisey87

I'd say it was just forgotten to be signed or a junior didnt want to have to ask the partner to sign so just left it! No big deal

ericteller

The reason I am concerned about the accounts is, if I was to be audited. Could the accountant claim he didn't know anything about my accounts as his signature isn't on them?

daisey87

I presume you are talking about a revenue audit - Highly unlikely as would be registered as agent and submit your form 11. You could just ring tomorrow and ask for a bound and signed set to be posted to you. They should do it no problem and it will ease your mind

J.Ryan

ericteller wrote: »

The reason I am concerned about the accounts is, if I was to be audited. Could the accountant claim he didn't know anything about my accounts as his signature isn't on them?

Thats why my first suggestion was to contact the accountant directly.



Regardless of if the accounts are signed by the accountant or not, your taxes are your responsibility not your accountants, the Revenue will always go after you if there is an error (that they find), not your accountant.

You should always have a final meeting with them and ask questions if you don't understand something or if it doesn't feel right.

Most accountants will keep a set of the accounts signed by the client to show that they were approved by the client, have you had to sign the accounts for the accountant.

ericteller

No I have never been asked to sign any accounts. The accounting technician sends me the accounts and the form 11 that he has filled in, I sign the form 11 and send it off to the revenue with a cheque. Feel a bit foolish but I have never met the accountant just the technician, as he was recommended by a friend as someone who could do my books for me. I don't think the technician works in the accountants office, he works in a general office. He told me when I first met him that he knows this particular accountant and that he checks over accounts for him and consults with him. I will definitely contact the accountant and ask for them to be signed.

smcgiff

Could be wrong, but this might be an informal relationship between the Accounting Technician and the Accountant.

Also, someone can be an accountant and NOT have the authority to sign off accounts.

When I worked in practice there were two types of accounts sign off. One where it is stated an audited had taken place and the other where it is expressly stated the accounts have been prepared without an audit being prepared.

But accounts never left our office without being signed.

ericteller

Thanks, yes I think it is informal between accountant and technician. It does say that the accounts have been prepared unaudited, the accountants name is printed underneath this but it's not signed.

dbran

Hi

As mentioned above it would be considered best practice for the accountant to obtain a signed copy of the final agreed figures/accounts signed by the client.

Otherwise it is difficult to determine that the accounts are the final ones that have been agreed between the client and the accountant. This can lead to problems down the road when it turns out that changes that have been agreed at a meeting have not been reflected in the final figures and resulting tax return.

If it is a limited company the profit and loss, balance sheet and directors report must be signed by both directors by law. For sole traders it is just best practice that they are signed.

The accountant may or may not let you have a copy where he has personally signed the accountants report. My experience is that unless the client asks for them to be signed by me personally, I will just send a copy of the accounts with the names and dates typed in. So I do not think that this is so unusual.

I would take it up with the technician as it does appear from what you say that the informal arrangement may have become a little too informal. An accounting technician can only do bookeeping up to trial balance, payroll and VAT returns. They are not qualified to prepare accounts for 3rd parties, income tax returns etc. It is important that your tax return is properly reviewed by someone and it is not just a "numbers in boxes" job.

Hope this helps

dbran

Andrews Tax Consulting

To add to the posts above,

To prepare a set of unaudited accounts, the accountant merely takes the information provided to prepare a set of figures. As a consequence very little weight can be put on them by "users" such as banks, etc. For small businesses this is not an issue but large businesses that qualify for audit-exemption often look for a set of audited accounts to give comfort to shareholders, banks, etc.

To prepare a set of audited accounts your auditor/accountant cannot merely rely on the information provided he/she must carry out testing on the information to make sure that the financial statements give a "true and fair" view of the overall health of the business. The view is expressed in an audit report which forms part of the accounts.

To first thing that occured to me is that the accountant may have prepared audited accounts in the past and is now preparing un-audited accounts. If so, the level of fee being charged should be lower to reflect the smaller workload.

Irrespective of whether the accounts are audited or not, your accountant is not giving you a clean bill of health from a taxation perspective. This is a common misconception. He/she may identify tax issues in the course of preparing the accounts. But to sign off that there are no issues would require a review of every single transaction and a visual inspection of every document relating to the business.

Derek
http://www.andrewstax.ie

smcgiff

Andrews Tax Consulting wrote: »

Irrespective of whether the accounts are audited or not, your accountant is not giving you a clean bill of health from a taxation perspective. This is a common misconception. He/she may identify tax issues in the course of preparing the accounts. But to sign off that there are no issues would require a review of every single transaction and a visual inspection of every document relating to the business.

Derek
http://www.andrewstax.ie

Not sure what point you're trying to make here as not even a tax consultant will inspect every document relating to the business, and likewise does not provide a clean bill of health relating to tax in the manner you suggest an accountant does not.

Andrews Tax Consulting

ericteller wrote: »

The reason I am concerned about the accounts is, if I was to be audited. Could the accountant claim he didn't know anything about my accounts as his signature isn't on them?

You would understand if you had read throught the Tread.

There is a common expectation gap that when an accountant signs off an audit statement that the tax affairs of the business are fully up to date. Anyone with experience of Revenue audits would know this.

Its outside the scope of the thread but since you bring it up - a tax consultant or accountant will give a clean bill of health in a Revenue audit scenario if a detailed review is carried on for the purpose of a voluntary disclosure.