Can contractors make smaller bales ??

Shauny2010

Hi all, My silage bales seem very soft and have sagged a bit even though this year I wilted for 2 days in the fine weather. I`m putting it down to the contractor but someone told me that the balers cant be adjusted and that it just the silage. Any ideas ? Also I don't think they are being chopped properly, I bought bales in spring off a neighbour the silage seemed to be chopped twice i.e. about 6 inches is this to do with the type of baler used ?

pakalasa

If they're sagging, especially if the grass is very dry, then they're definitely not compacted enough.
A sure way for a contractor to loose business. Farmers tak to each other.;)

Casinoking

All balers can be adjusted. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book, looser bales means more bales. However it could have a lot to do with the grass too, it's hard to pack bales if the grass is light and soft. Talk to the contractor and a couple of his other customers, if he's not offering a reasonable excuse then look elsewhere next year.

irishh_bob

number 1 , they can be adjusted
number 2 , some contractors choose not to chope the bales at all
number 3 , some balers simply produce bigger bales than others , the mchale baler is vastly superior to the claas or krone for example in terms of the size and shape of bales they make

personally speaking , i would only deal with a contractor who uses a mchale

charityboy

irishh_bob wrote: »

number 1 , they can be adjusted
number 2 , some contractors choose not to chope the bales at all
number 3 , some balers simply produce bigger bales than others , the mchale baler is vastly superior to the claas or krone for example in terms of the size and shape of bales they make

personally speaking , i would only deal with a contractor who uses a mchale

have to agree with the mchale baler drawing bales last week that were made from a fusion it was wilted for two days the bales were serious weight even after wilting

Shauny2010

no weight problems with my bales im afraid!! you could draw them in with a Ferguson 20

agrostar

It is no bother make softer, less dense bales just adjust the back door pressure sensors on the baler operator console. Not many contractors do this though as poor bale quality can often lose them custom. There are always afew cowboys out there who will try this if they think they will get away with it:mad::mad::mad:. This means there are more bales,they burn alot less diesel and have way less wear and tear on the baler as it is not put under any pressure packing the bale. My advice is talk to afew neighbouring farmers and see who they find the best contractor in the area to do the job is, get him in the next time and compare results............. Bale silage is expensive at the best of times without having to pay extra for a poor job.

Sam Kade

I made bales with my welger rp12 last year and got a contractor to finish off baling as my baler broke down. The contractor was using a new john deere baler. RP 12 bales are smaller than what new balers make. When I was feeding out the bales I wasn't long finding out that there was more silage in the rp12 bales as they were packed more. They were packed so tight it was impossible to break them apart, the john deere bales just fell apart when the net was taken off them. With the older balers use slower the forward speed for a more dense bale.

Bitten & Hisses

irishh_bob wrote: »

the mchale baler is vastly superior to the claas or krone for example in terms of the size and shape of bales they make

personally speaking , i would only deal with a contractor who uses a mchale

Absolute nonsense. Did you personally set the density control on these balers when you used them? I have had bales made with a Claas 255 and a Fusion (operated by me and another family member) and there is nothing between them.

On topic, there may well be shenanigans going on here OP. Another variable is the net wrap. You can have well-packed bales, but if for some reason the roll of net isn't correctly tensioned, the bales will sag.

reilig

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. Did you personally set the density control on these balers when you used them? I have had bales made with a Claas 255 and a Fusion (operated by me and another family member) and there is nothing between them.

On topic, there may well be shenanigans going on here OP. Another variable is the net wrap. You can have well-packed bales, but if for some reason the roll of net isn't correctly tensioned, the bales will sag.

I agree. I've seen RP200 bales beside Fusion bales and they were equally packed tight. The tightness and packing of a bale doesn't depend on a baler, it depends on the driver, the speed that he drives at, the revs on the tractor and the amount that he packs into the bale. Have seen dry wilted grass made by a fusion which were some of the worst bales i ever saw too - a young lad in a hurry - he even brought the gate post when he was leaving the field

Sam Kade

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. Did you personally set the density control on these balers when you used them? I have had bales made with a Claas 255 and a Fusion (operated by me and another family member) and there is nothing between them.

On topic, there may well be shenanigans going on here OP. Another variable is the net wrap. You can have well-packed bales, but if for some reason the roll of net isn't correctly tensioned, the bales will sag.

Agreed, I never heard of setting density on round balers it has more to do with crop and forward speed.

John_F

Sam Kade wrote: »

Agreed, I never heard of setting density on round balers it has more to do with crop and forward speed.

true but you can set the density definatly in a class 250, e.g. if your baling straw v silage you have to change it..

maidhc

Sam Kade wrote: »

Agreed, I never heard of setting density on round balers it has more to do with crop and forward speed.

There is a bar on the 12 beside the twiner wheel with various holes. Put the pin at the farthest out hole and keep going until the bale density indicator hits the top of the red just before the shearbolt snaps. Adjust accordingly.

Agreed though, you need to keep the speed handy with older balers. Grass can make a difference as well. We do our silage at all different times, with the same machine and same operator, but some grass is just harder to compact.

And the Welger RP235 makes the same sized bales as an RP12!

Bitten & Hisses

John_F wrote: »

true but you can set the density definatly in a class 250, e.g. if your baling straw v silage you have to change it..

That's the point I was making. The density setting on a Claas or McHale baler has, in my experience at least, the biggest influence on bale quality. On the 255, you wind her up to the last, then come back a full revolution on the wheel. This gives seriously heavy silage bales, even in a wilted crop.

johngalway

pakalasa wrote: »

A sure way for a contractor to loose business. Farmers tak to each other.;)

That's for sure, and it applies also to middle men selling them on.

denis086

we dont do silage bales but we do buy straw but we never buy the bales that the farmer sells. He lets us bale ourselves we use an old twine krone baler but last year the chain in the chamber went took the roller on top and a fair few bearings with it but we had made a good few dozen bales with it we knew we wouldnt get the parts or it repaired in time so we got a demo welger baler from the dealer and we travelled at the same handy speed same revs all the rest and did everything we should to do with adjusting the baler but the bales werent as heavy you could tip them on their side handy enough but the twine bale would make you sweat after a few :rolleyes:
just what we noticed make of it what you will but we tried everything that we were told we could to pack them more one fella told us if we went faster it packs it in faster and fits more needless to say he got a few strange looks

vincenzolorenzo

Sam Kade wrote: »

Agreed, I never heard of setting density on round balers it has more to do with crop and forward speed.

Nope you're wrong on that one. It is possible to change the density of bales on the baler. Speed and crop conditions really have very little to do with it, unless the crop is very light, such as after grass. On the McHale 560 and fusion the pressure on the door is adjusted electronically on the console in the cab. On older style balers such as JD 578 there was a valve chest on the baler that could be adjusted

John_F

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Nope you're wrong on that one. It is possible to change the density of bales on the baler. Speed and crop conditions really have very little to do with it, unless the crop is very light, such as after grass. On the McHale 560 and fusion the pressure on the door is adjusted electronically on the console in the cab. On older style balers such as JD 578 there was a valve chest on the baler that could be adjusted

yep, aswell half or 3/4s way through making the bale and pressurising the back door also makes a difference

Sisu200

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Nope you're wrong on that one. It is possible to change the density of bales on the baler. Speed and crop conditions really have very little to do with it, unless the crop is very light, such as after grass. On the McHale 560 and fusion the pressure on the door is adjusted electronically on the console in the cab. On older style balers such as JD 578 there was a valve chest on the baler that could be adjusted

I agree, I own an RP200 master and I adjusted the spring tension on it to improve the densty of the bales, worked a treat , there is 3 settings for this on my machine, the spring mechanism is part of the latch that holds the door closed, and op it definelty looks as if the contractor is taking you for a spin, this is the same reason I bought my own outfit.

pajero12

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Nope you're wrong on that one. It is possible to change the density of bales on the baler. Speed and crop conditions really have very little to do with it, unless the crop is very light, such as after grass. On the McHale 560 and fusion the pressure on the door is adjusted electronically on the console in the cab. On older style balers such as JD 578 there was a valve chest on the baler that could be adjusted

Actually think the fusion is based on the f550 so it's adjusted manually..That said a baler with a mechanical tail lock will pack a bale much better than one with a hydraulic tail lock i.e JD578

maidhc

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Nope you're wrong on that one. It is possible to change the density of bales on the baler. Speed and crop conditions really have very little to do with it, unless the crop is very light, such as after grass. On the McHale 560 and fusion the pressure on the door is adjusted electronically on the console in the cab. On older style balers such as JD 578 there was a valve chest on the baler that could be adjusted

Speed makes a huge difference on older balers!

Sam Kade

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Nope you're wrong on that one. It is possible to change the density of bales on the baler. Speed and crop conditions really have very little to do with it, unless the crop is very light, such as after grass. On the McHale 560 and fusion the pressure on the door is adjusted electronically on the console in the cab. On older style balers such as JD 578 there was a valve chest on the baler that could be adjusted

But surely that has to to with putting more silage into the bale to make it more dense because other wise you would end up with a smaller bale.

quietsailor

maidhc wrote: »

Speed makes a huge difference on older balers!

It does and it doesn't. For a driver unused to the baler/ new to baling they haven't the experience to drive fast and bale well at the same time.

An experienced driver can drive fast and still produce even dense bales. This isn't hearsay or "a fella down the pub told me..." I used to drive the wrapper years ago for a contractor behind several Welger RP200s. The experienced driver usually baled silage in 2nd HighHigh on a Ford 7710 and I never had problems wrapping them. However the inexperienced drivers used to produce balls of Sh!te when using the same gears and tractor revs.

I know they were good bales because;
a) They were still cylindrical after they came off the wrapper - soft bales will squeeze in on the corners, really soft bales come off a wrapper looking spherical.
b) When the wrapper threw them up on the table the whole machine used to shudder sideways, the contractor used to be always on at me to slow down throwing them up because it was damaging the wrapper -- they had to be dense.

Even in bad crop conditions -- usually the farmer rowing it themselves not knowing how to set the turner -- John would produce good bales. He used rarely watch the pickup but instead watch the swarth in front and be ready to clutch in for rough ground/lumps of silage. Then again he had 6+ yrs experience close to 100K bales made so he had unreal knowledge of the balers. Most people I know, myself included, wouldn't be able to drive a baler like he did.

maidhc

quietsailor wrote: »

An experienced driver can drive fast and still produce even dense bales.

I have baled our own silage at home for the last 14 years using an RP12s. You will NOT get a good bale unless

1) You have a decent swarth
2) You keep the speed moderate

By moderate I mean about 4-5mph with a decent crop. You can go faster if is lighter.

Now I am the person who must open the bales in the winter, so I have more of an interest in going slower than a contractor.

I have no doubt though that a McHale 560 will produce a superior bale at higher speeds....but I bought the current baler for IEP£1000!

vincenzolorenzo

Sam Kade wrote: »

But surely that has to to with putting more silage into the bale to make it more dense because other wise you would end up with a smaller bale.

Yep you're putting more silage into the bale alright which gives it a higher density but the size is still the same for a fixed chamber baler. Possibly slight variation, but basically the same size