Abandoned house?

Graces7

What is to stop someone taking over an abandoned house?

sean corcoran

the fact that 9 times out of 10 the property is still owned by the person who used to live there

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

What is to stop someone taking over an abandoned house?

Even though it may seem 'abandoned' the site/property on which the house is situated is owned by somebody, so if you were to take over the house you'd effectively be taking the house from the person who actually owned it.

Graces7

convert wrote: »

Even though it may seem 'abandoned' the site/property on which the house is situated is owned by somebody, so if you were to take over the house you'd effectively be taking the house from the person who actually owned it.

OK: ( working on a story and need accuracy!)

Not taking it; simply using it... Suppose I have made strenuous efforts as I know who owns it, to find them to ask if I can use it as I am without a home to go to? But they seem to have vanished without trace..

ie a squatter, but with a slight twist to it.

How do squatters go about it anyways?

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

ie a squatter, but with a slight twist to it.

How is it being a squatter but with a slight twist? You're going into somebody else's home without permission (trespass and breaking and entering) and living there, also without permission.

How do squatters go about it anyways?

Squatters just walk in and take over the house without the owner's permission.

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

as I am without a home to go to?

If you are having problems regarding accommodation then you should probably seek some advice and assistance from relevant support services, such as Social Welfare, the St Vincent de Paul, Citizens Information, etc.

johndaman66

I do know that its the case to claim squatters rights you must have being occupying the property for some considerable time. Its not like you could move in now and attempt to claim the property next Spring.

I would be thinking and perhaps I am wrong on this that one would have to have a certain interest in the property in the first place other than needing a roof over their heads.

The_Conductor

johndaman66 wrote: »

I do know that its the case to claim squatters rights you must have being occupying the property for some considerable time. Its not like you could move in now and attempt to claim the property next Spring.

I would be thinking and perhaps I am wrong on this that one would have to have a certain interest in the property in the first place other than needing a roof over their heads.

Correct- you need unincumbered and sole access to the property for a period of 12 years (this is under review at present).

Jo King

johndaman66 wrote: »

I do know that its the case to claim squatters rights you must have being occupying the property for some considerable time. Its not like you could move in now and attempt to claim the property next Spring.

I would be thinking and perhaps I am wrong on this that one would have to have a certain interest in the property in the first place other than needing a roof over their heads.

Not correct. There is no need for a squatter to have an interest in the property in the first place. The squatter must have 12 years (30 against the state) exclusive possession of the property as a starting point. There are other issues to be considered such as how he came to be occupying the property in the first place. The intention of the owner to abandon may also be relevant. Adverse possession is a complicated area of law and the courts have contradicted themselves over the years. Look at the recent Pat Kenny case. After several days in the courts the two sides had to compromise. There was no black and white answer and each side risked total loss plus costs.

johndaman66

Jo King wrote: »

Not correct. There is no need for a squatter to have an interest in the property in the first place.

Thanks for clearing up that one Jo King. As you correctly mention also the legislation is quite complicated and wishy washy in this area. I do know of neighbours who were involved in legal proceedings in this regard some time back and the legal proceedings were quite prolonged.

Victor

Graces7 wrote: »

What is to stop someone taking over an abandoned house?

OP, I'm not sure I like the tone of this thread. I am inclined to close it.

Graces7

Victor wrote: »

OP, I'm not sure I like the tone of this thread. I am inclined to close it.

Feel free.. as a non-Irish writer seeking strict research accuracy? Which I did say at one stage.....

The mere fact we are threatened with illegal eviction was the springboard for the idea for the story of course, but simply that.

Have to try to salvage something remotely useful out of an agonising situation.. Most writers do this of course, after very careful and meticulous research.....

People ie squatters "must" sometimes succeed though; that is what I was seeking.

Would be interesting to hear if so is all....

In the story, you see, the would-be resident knows the person who owns the abandoned property, which is waaaaaaay out in the sticks, and tries everything to find them with no success. knowing that the owner has no intention of ever using or living there again.

Chances are that no one would ever realise what the would-be resident was doing. Would think that it has been sold or rented out. The owner was not local and had no family etc there.

The would-be resident is 100% sure that were the owner to know of the precidament the owner would allow residence.

There are of course a few possible endings to the story. Including a dramatic eviction thus?

I have learned here only one side.

Thank you

eth0_

Graces7 wrote: »

The would-be resident is 100% sure that were the owner to know of the precidament the owner would allow residence.

How do you know that if you haven't spoken to this person? Surely if they cared so much about the "would-be resident", they would be contactable.

Graces7 wrote: »

There are of course a few possible endings to the story. Including a dramatic eviction thus?

But you just said the "would-be resident" was sure the owner would allow it if they knew, so why do you anticipate a "dramatic eviction"?

There are no grey areas here...squatting is illegal.

Graces7

eth0_ wrote: »

How do you know that if you haven't spoken to this person? Surely if they cared so much about the "would-be resident", they would be contactable.



But you just said the "would-be resident" was sure the owner would allow it if they knew, so why do you anticipate a "dramatic eviction"?

There are no black and white areas here...squatting is illegal.

The dynamics and interplay of personal relationships and needs set against the inflexible dictats of the law are the basis of great fiction.

( I think you meant no grey areas?)

JuliusCaesar

An interesting question. I remember hearing something about this years ago, in the 80s, where a property down the country was abandoned as the owner had emigrated to the US. There was nobody in the country to start eviction procedures. Everyone local knew the person had gone and to which city, but he couldn't be tracked down. Don't know who looked or how hard.

ep71

this is for a story you're writing correct?
i know a man nearby here in mayo died and with no family remaining in this country, his land was taken over by a neighbour and the house became derelict. after 12 years of squatting, the land and house effectively belongs to the squatter now

convert

There are lots of people out there who face eviction at the moment, whether legal or illegal, most of whom just get on with looking for alternative and legitimate accommodation instead of looking to become a squatter. You could even look to do a deal with a local B&B, hotel or holiday home owner to tied you over until you find somewhere suitable. Anything is better than illegally occupying somebody else's property.

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

Feel free.. as a non-Irish writer seeking strict research accuracy?

Perhaps you would be better contacting a solicitor and seeking their advice regarding squatters' rights. They'd know the legal side of things and would probably be able to direct you to relevant cases which would help your research.

ricman

There was an article in the irish times about a squatter who lives in a large georgian building.ITS abandoned or owner is dead, has no relatives in ireland.
Theres no one round to bring an eviction order against the squatter .
Dublin city council are attempting to bring a case against him to say he has
only a right to live in the basement, ie he cannot claim ownership of the whole building it has 3 storeys .
how do you prove you lived there 12 years ?
you cannot go to the gardai and say i moved in house x 3 months ago,they might arrest you for trespassing .

ricman

ricman wrote: »

you cannot go to the gardai and say i moved in house x 3 months ago,they might arrest you for trespassing .

But who would they press charges from?

I've often wondered this, can the state initiate eviction proceedings against a squatter? I'd assume that only the property owner could do so. I'd be confident enough to say that there must be lots of land in a black hole - where the original owner has died/moved away/don't know they own it etc.

ricman

if the council know about it they can take over a home after x amount of years ,demolish it, or refurbish it and rent it out.

Graces7

convert wrote: »

There are lots of people out there who face eviction at the moment, whether legal or illegal, most of whom just get on with looking for alternative and legitimate accommodation instead of looking to become a squatter. You could even look to do a deal with a local B&B, hotel or holiday home owner to tied you over until you find somewhere suitable. Anything is better than illegally occupying somebody else's property.

Interesting angle, but the reality sadly is very diifferent if you are reliant on eg Rent Allowance.

We are treated as second class citizens. Really we are. And finding the money for a deposit is often impossible.

Emergergency accommodation often means the cheapest B and B. Losing your whole way of life, pets etc.

It is a downward spiral.

Graces7

Karsini wrote: »

But who would they press charges from?

I've often wondered this, can the state initiate eviction proceedings against a squatter? I'd assume that only the property owner could do so. I'd be confident enough to say that there must be lots of land in a black hole - where the original owner has died/moved away/don't know they own it etc.

Exactly so.. When we were first searching for accommodation, we found many like that.

One small town in Mayo a few years ago decided to try to prove ownership of the many ruins around to tidy them up.

In the UK if a person dies intestate, their property goes to the State.

But in many cases, the family did not know or care where the owner was.. In the US was a common reply.

Graces7

ricman wrote: »

There was an article in the irish times about a squatter who lives in a large georgian building.ITS abandoned or owner is dead, has no relatives in ireland.
Theres no one round to bring an eviction order against the squatter .
Dublin city council are attempting to bring a case against him to say he has
only a right to live in the basement, ie he cannot claim ownership of the whole building it has 3 storeys .
how do you prove you lived there 12 years ?
you cannot go to the gardai and say i moved in house x 3 months ago,they might arrest you for trespassing .

Hmmm.. I imagine if you had the mains power etc connected? Interesting...

Ste.phen

ricman wrote: »

There was an article in the irish times about a squatter who lives in a large georgian building.ITS abandoned or owner is dead, has no relatives in ireland.
Theres no one round to bring an eviction order against the squatter .
Dublin city council are attempting to bring a case against him to say he has
only a right to live in the basement, ie he cannot claim ownership of the whole building it has 3 storeys .
how do you prove you lived there 12 years ?
you cannot go to the gardai and say i moved in house x 3 months ago,they might arrest you for trespassing .

This story comes up a lot, it's the house on Middle Abbey St near the epicurian food hall. Old chap lives there, he's apparently quite friendly, is an artist, and I believe he lets stuggling artists stay for free.

A consequence of which is the place is remarkably colourful for Dublin:

http://bicyclistic.com/images/Dublin/Dublin-Abbey-Street-That-Door-800.jpg

ricman

Theres loads of old houses down the country owner gone abroad, died and had no children .
Well how could you prove you lived there on a certain date? Send yourself registered letters, get a library card from that adress etc
Could you live in a house without an esb supply.

eth0_

ricman wrote: »

if the council know about it they can take over a home after x amount of years ,demolish it, or refurbish it and rent it out.

Are you sure about that? It doesn't sound right or at least, judging by all the tumbledown buildings you see in towns and cities around ireland, must never be put into practice by any council!

StereoLove

You could do what the squatters do, walk in and take over the house, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal

ricman

THE council dont bother fixing up buildings in the middle of nowhere,eg in a field ,on the side of a isolated road, only in towns ,urban areas .I,VE seen them knock down old houses that were abandoned.
And they have a limited budget.
they have powers to knock down abandoned or dangerous buildings if they wish to do so , after x amount of years.They usually leave the houses alone ,unless the are in danger of collapsing , ie they pose a danger to the public.

StereoLove

ricman wrote: »

THE council dont bother fixing up buildings in the middle of nowhere,eg in a field ,on the side of a isolated road, only in towns ,urban areas .I,VE seen them knock down old houses that were abandoned.
And they have a limited budget.
they have powers to knock down abandoned or dangerous buildings if they wish to do so , after x amount of years.They usually leave the houses alone ,unless the are in danger of collapsing , ie they pose a danger to the public.

There's an abandoned building (Former mental hospital) in Cork across the Lee from a hotel. It's been abandoned since 2002 and I've yet to see the council do anything about it. It's supposed to be very dangerous, celings falling down,druggies and it could collapse or partly collapse. Isuppose my point it that if they were going to do anything about it surley they'd have done it already?

Kristopherus

StereoLove wrote: »

There's an abandoned building (Former mental hospital) in Cork across the Lee from a hotel. It's been abandoned since 2002 and I've yet to see the council do anything about it. It's supposed to be very dangerous, celings falling down,druggies and it could collapse or partly collapse. Isuppose my point it that if they were going to do anything about it surley they'd have done it already?

That belongs to the HSE.

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

Interesting angle, but the reality sadly is very diifferent if you are reliant on eg Rent Allowance.

We are treated as second class citizens. Really we are. And finding the money for a deposit is often impossible.

Emergergency accommodation often means the cheapest B and B. Losing your whole way of life, pets etc.

It is a downward spiral.

As I said, there are lots of people currently in a similar situation. Perhaps it would be worthwhile contacting the Saint Vincent de Paul, Citizens' Information, MABS, etc. for information on what can be done to help people in this situation. There was a programme on RTE 1 radio during the week which tackled this topic. Two people who were featured on the programme shared their experiences and were full of praise for the SVP who helped them out with their bills when they were in dire straights.

StereoLove

Kristopherus wrote: »

That belongs to the HSE.

Yes I know that but they don't seem to be doing anything about it, do they?

Graces7

convert wrote: »

As I said, there are lots of people currently in a similar situation. Perhaps it would be worthwhile contacting the Saint Vincent de Paul, Citizens' Information, MABS, etc. for information on what can be done to help people in this situation. There was a programme on RTE 1 radio during the week which tackled this topic. Two people who were featured on the programme shared their experiences and were full of praise for the SVP who helped them out with their bills when they were in dire straights.

The system should not come to this, should it? This is the second time in two years we have faced this; the last time was because of flooding.

All the SVP houses then were occupied and we were left to fend for
ourselves.

There was no emergency housing to be had. maybe B and B had we been pushed to that; heaven protect us from that.

For the two ( carefully chosen) who had been helped, there are many more who were not.

Ironically we do voluntary work with the homeless so we know the full situation very well indeed.

And it is not an easy situation with the new rules etc and the very real prejudice against RA applicants.. which is what we are up against just now of course.

It is not a question of bills; we are very careful and never in debt, but of a system that takes away all choice from eg old ones, of where we live etc. Of whether we have to rehome our pets etc. ( awful thought and not one anyone should be forced to do)

and SVP are an emergency resource; not a day to day agency. It is the system that works against those less well off all the way.


It becomes a downward spiral. There is no real safety net and resources are very limited.

back to daft ie and th emails!!! Still trying.. and trying.. and trying


And using the experience to write a superb story.

What many of us fairly new to Ireland find hard is the sheer number of houses, sturdy ones, left literally to rot

And I suspect that more than a few have been quietly taken over

D3PO

op the fact is its illegal end of story.

you keep coming on here with your sob story your a pensioner , illegal eviction not fair nowhere to go etc

now not to change the topic here but after 40 odd years of a working you dont have any savings to the point your on the verge of being homeless and need to squat ?

now i feel for you but something is seriously wrong with your money management ...

convert

Graces7 wrote: »

OK: ( working on a story and need accuracy!)

Graces7 wrote: »

Feel free.. as a non-Irish writer seeking strict research accuracy? Which I did say at one stage.....

So you said your post here was just 'research' for a book you were writing.

Graces7 wrote: »

The mere fact we are threatened with illegal eviction was the springboard for the idea for the story of course, but simply that.

Have to try to salvage something remotely useful out of an agonising situation.. Most writers do this of course, after very careful and meticulous research.....

In the story, you see, the would-be resident knows the person who owns the abandoned property, which is waaaaaaay out in the sticks, and tries everything to find them with no success. knowing that the owner has no intention of ever using or living there again.

So now it's due to you being evicted from a house and you have decided to write a book about your experiences of it.

Graces7 wrote: »

The dynamics and interplay of personal relationships and needs set against the inflexible dictats of the law are the basis of great fiction.

( I think you meant no grey areas?)

Now it's a book again...

Graces7 wrote: »

Interesting angle, but the reality sadly is very diifferent if you are reliant on eg Rent Allowance.

We are treated as second class citizens. Really we are. And finding the money for a deposit is often impossible.

Graces7 wrote: »

And using the experience to write a superb story.

And now we're back to a real life situation...

I'm now a little confused. Has this thread sprung from a real life situation and you're planning to take over a house owned by somebody else because you are being evicted? Are you just doing some research for a book you're writing? Or are you being evicted and have decided to write about your experiences of becoming a squatter?

Either way, I've given you as much assistance as I can. It's illegal to enter somebody else's property. Being a squatter is illegal. If you are in financial problems or have nowhere to go, there are organisations out there who can help you. It's best to seek their advice regarding your situation as soon as possible. They may just be able to help.

Kimia

Is it just me or has Grace's posting style changed completely? I seem to remember her being very articulate and knowlegeable about Irish law..

Graces7

D3PO wrote: »

op the fact is its illegal end of story.

you keep coming on here with your sob story your a pensioner , illegal eviction not fair nowhere to go etc

now not to change the topic here but after 40 odd years of a working you dont have any savings to the point your on the verge of being homeless and need to squat ?

now i feel for you but something is seriously wrong with your money management ...

Your tone is discourteous in the extreme.

Many have disabling illness many years and are thus unable to save. I never mentioned "intending to squat" either.

What is it that you need to write thus?

Graces7

Kimia wrote: »

Is it just me or has Grace's posting style changed completely? I seem to remember her being very articulate and knowlegeable about Irish law..

I am here; ask directly if you need to.

Graces7

convert wrote: »

So you said your post here was just 'research' for a book you were writing.



So now it's due to you being evicted from a house and you have decided to write a book about your experiences of it.



Now it's a book again...





And now we're back to a real life situation...

I'm now a little confused. Has this thread sprung from a real life situation and you're planning to take over a house owned by somebody else because you are being evicted? Are you just doing some research for a book you're writing? Or are you being evicted and have decided to write about your experiences of becoming a squatter?

Either way, I've given you as much assistance as I can. It's illegal to enter somebody else's property. Being a squatter is illegal. If you are in financial problems or have nowhere to go, there are organisations out there who can help you. It's best to seek their advice regarding your situation as soon as possible. They may just be able to help.

All these ??? are sheerly irrelevant really.

Your last statement is wildly inaccurate though of course. Else no one would ever be homeless....

So we have established that although it is illegal. it does happen and indeed the law does give protection by allowing ownership after 12 years..

Thank you.

Victor

The End.