she earns more than me

LegacyUser

Disclaimer: I realise the time's we're living in, and I should be thankful I have a job (in fact I did lose my 1st job but I'll get to that).

A bit about me, had 1st entry level job just over 1 yr, credit crunch and made redundant, quite soon after (thankfully) started less skilled IT job on 1k a year less for 1 year and was promoted to the same role I was in the 1st job (albeit with more prospects) in the new company on 2k more.

All in I'm about 1k better off than 2.5 years ago.

My newly moved-in girfriend (we're going out about a year) just accepted a new work contract (1 year experience - different sector), she asked what I was earning as she was trying to work out her monthly wage and I was truthful and told her.

With this new permanent contract she's earning 7k a year more than me. At our stage in life - mid 20's - that's a big gap.

I didn't comment on it at first and she said it was less than the money she was getting on contract, and that she was slightly disappointed (my brain's 1st reaction was "f*** you're not happy with that!", it's second reaction was to put me in a mood which I'm hiding!)

After a bit (she was doing her own thing). I told her I thought it was good and I would be happy with it ( this was a lie but I didn't want her to pick up on how inadequate I felt), her next (bitchy?) reaction was to tell me I didn't ask for it (a raise when I changed jobs) from my boss, at which point I said my wages were the best I could negotiate (there's no way I could get what she's getting in my current job/ sector).

My spending: The car is my biggest expense - I made the mistake of buying it january of the credit crunch year(6 mths into 1st job) and blew a small fortune on it. (typical mistake a lot of newly qualifieds make apparently - won't be taking a loan that size in comparison to wages out on a car ever again). Anyway you know the story of what happened in June that year and it's now worth peanuts in comparison to what it should be.

I'd love to sell it as I use it at weekends (bus to work during the week) but it wouldn't cover the loan and I'd feel stuck (transport not great here) 2.5 yrs left on 5 yr loan so probably worth more to me to ride it out.

I don't go out v often (once a month if at all, and rarely spend over 50 euro). I'm only managing to put away about 200 a month in savings at the moment (my wages probably won't be going to hit what she's earning for another 2 years best outcome, at which stage no doubt she'll be on more still.)

All in she's nearly 800 euro a month better off than I am currently (I have a near 400/month car loan/ insurance payments - she was lucky enough to be given a near new car as a birthday present from her dad). This is a massive gap to me, and I feel like I'm struggling whereas she's banking all she has.

Anyways we went on a trip to rome for 5 days at the start of the year, I ended up oweing her money and just have it paid off (we'd just moved in and deposit etc was massive to try and save for as I was living month to month for a long time).

I'm finally getting my finances in order but I'll still be struggling for a long time. We were supposed to go on holidays at the end of the year but that could be quashed (she may not get the time off.)

She is going on a sun holiday with a girlfriend though before the year is out (another PI, I don't like this but I trust her. And she's going with the friend because I said I couldn't afford it till later in the year)

When it comes down to it I'm a bit of a caveman, I think the man should pay the bulk of things/ dinner dates/ nice things for his lady etc . We do go out for dinner/movie twice a month and it's roughly 50 50 on the whole who pays thing.

Anyways I'm slowly saving to buy 'The Ring'. I love her so I'm not going to be stingy and want it to be at least 2-3k (which I'll be a while saving up for you can see)

I want to be able to go on the sun holidays when she asks , pay for things etc but I'm finding it difficult, while if the situation were reversed I'd have no difficulty and I wouldn't be stressing about money etc!

So more of a rant/my-gf-is-so-fkn-lucky/jealousy and financial issues post all in one.

Just reading down through it, I know it looks stupid, moving in expenses, trip to Rome at start of year, trying to save for ring, want to go on sun holiday at end of the year, but unfortunately that's what I'd like to do, and it's hard for me because I know that my gf can do what she pleases but it's something I'll have to get over.

I hate claiming the "poor mouth" and turning down her holiday suggestions too - that in itself is demeaning, she knows my financial situation but still says things from time to time that I have to say no to.

this is a bit all over the place so I'll end here, any advice etc is well appreciated

tenchi-fan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/10182993.stm

"Comparing your income with those of family and friends is a recipe for unhappiness, a study has suggested."

I'm sure the whole male ego thing comes into it a little bit, in the same sense that men would sooner crash than letting a woman overtake them while driving.. or letting the lid of a jar get the better of them.

However, the big part is simply you were happy enough with your salary before, next thing you compare it to your girlfriend's wage and you're suddenly unhappy.

If you can't just be happy with what you have you should either get a better paid job or a worse paid girlfriend.

Stheno

OP in terms of your car, if it's under a HP agreement with the bank, then once you are over halfway through the payments you can hand it back with no penalties.

See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055601794&highlight=loan+agreement for more details

That might free you up to get a cheaper car if you really need one at the weekends.

When it comes down to it I'm a bit of a caveman, I think the man should pay the bulk of things/ dinner dates/ nice things for his lady etc .

That imo is an outdated view, from the sounds of your post you share most of your going out expenses and she doesn't seem to have a problem with that, and nor do you

Anyways I'm slowly saving to buy 'The Ring'. I love her so I'm not going to be stingy and want it to be at least 2-3k (which I'll be a while saving up for you can see)

You're only together a year, if I were you I'd take time out to sort out your finances, get a better cashflow going, and then start thinking about the "ring" And just because you love her doesn't mean you have to splash out a ridiculous amount of money on a ring tbh.

All that aside, I'm tempted to say get over it tbh, how will you cope if in years to come she earns 10/20/30k more than you do due to circumstance? How would you cope living together if you were unemployed etc?

You should probably both sit down and talk through your perspectives on finance and where you are at and agree perhaps to use your disposable income differently, e.g. maybe go out once a month to free up cash towards holidays?

Agent J

Its ego talking. Pure and simple.

If the situation was reversed you wouldnt have an issue with it. You also would hope your gf wouldnt have an issue with it. So why is it any different?

Get over it before it starts to damage your relationship with her.

kjl

When I was on about 35k a year I went out with a girl who earned more than a million a year. Well needless to say she paid for more things than I did and I loved it. If you girlfriend wants to go on a holidays she can either wait for you or pay for you tbh. I can see where you concerns are, but you need to not see this as a bad thing, but milk it for whats its worth.

The_Conductor

Contract employees normally get paid more than permanent employees- in my experience.

Why does it matter who earns more- you or your girlfriend. If one of the major things being brought to the relationship is financial- you have a problem from the word go. There is a hell of a lot more to a relationship than just money.

With respect of the sector you're in- your girlfriend is simply lucky. There are very few people out there who have not had their income cut significantly over the past 2 years in either the public or private sector. Who knows what the future may bring- it could very well be the case that the boot may be on the other foot at some stage.

There is a lot more to living than looking at the bottom line. Yes- times are tough- you are coping though and are managing to live within your means. Your girlfriend is looking at her means as totally seperate to yours. In a long term relationship people normally do not make this distinction- if it were an issue in a relationship I'd be asking questions about where the relationship was going to be honest.......

smccarrick

smccarrick wrote: »

There is a lot more to living than looking at the bottom line. Yes- times are tough- you are coping though and are managing to live within your means. Your girlfriend is looking at her means as totally seperate to yours. In a long term relationship people normally do not make this distinction- if it were an issue in a relationship I'd be asking questions about where the relationship was going to be honest.......

They've only been together a year though and just moved in together, I don't think lumping everything together at this early stage is a good plan. Yer one supporting her boyfriend completely in that other thread is only with him 4 months, I doubt OP or OP's gf want the danger of that trap yet. Plus they're only young yet

OP lots of women earn less than men now the role is reversed. I'm sure if you earned more than her it would be a-ok in your book. You need to get over the ego issue and just worry about living within your own means.

LegacyUser

You refer to her as "lucky". Is it beyond the realms of possibility that she's good at her job, dilligent and built up enough of a professional reputation to be able to move and ask for a raise? I think you have to get this idea of her being lucky and you somehow being the victim of misfortune out of your head, because it sounds like it's eating you up. How about being grateful that you have a smart, hard-working girlfriend who is self-sufficient? 7k really isn't that much of a difference and as you get older and move jobs, it's entirely possible the situation could be reversed in a few years.

Buying an expensive car was a mistake, but like you say one a lot of people made. However it was your choice and you need to accept that it is largely responsible for your finances being stretched. It's nothing to do with her so stop feeling bitter towards her about it.

Why not just be honest with her? Personally I've earned significantly more than most guys I've dated and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I would hate to think my boyfriend was struggling with money and felt like he couldn't talk to me about it. Personally I'd gladly pay for a holiday (perhaps as a birthday present) so that we could have some time away together. If you're thinking about getting married then your finances will be combined at some point in the future. Personally speaking one of my favourite things to spend money on is doing nice things for the people I love.

Just be honest with her. You may think you should be paying for dates and outings, but I can assure you most women in their 20s (or certainly amongst my friends) do not expect this to be the case and would be horrified if their boyfriend were getting stressed out about it.

Peggypeg

Hey OP,

I'm not trying to be insulting but come on it's 2010!!!! The pay inequalities and pay gap are finally starting to go! You need to wake up and smell the coffee, women are not "supposed" to earn less than men, that's 1950's thinking right there!!!

Anywho, I earn around 12k more than my beloved OH, does it bother him? NO, you know why? Because he's a confident man and he doesn't bother comparing his wage to other people's. I love spoiling him, I brought him on a holiday of a lifetime last year for his birthday and when he needs something he can't afford I buy it for him and if he needs cash I lend it to him. That sounds one sided when seen from the outside but he does most of the cooking, he spent hours and hours and hours helping me when I was in the middle of my degree, (I was doing a photography degree, at one point he stood in the back garden manually firing a flash, in the rain, for hours, because I needed him to for a module that was due). What I'm saying is every relationship is give and take, I might have more cash but his support and love and kindness and all his other wonderful qualities are a hundred times more important than cash.

My advice is to stop being jealous because it's a horrible emotion to feel and it will certainly hurt you and your relationship in the long run. If you feel she is giving more to the relationship than you cash wise then you can make up for it in other ways, do a bit more than your share of the cleaning or whatever. I very much doubt your girlfriend thinks less of you because she makes more money, I know I certainly don't think less of my OH.

If you're only going out a year or so I can understand that maybe you're a bit uncomfortable but if this is going to work as a relationship then you have to realise that this isn't the 1950s, the idea that a person should earn more than someone else purely based on their genitalia is gone and thank god for that!!!

Seriously making money does not make you a man, acting like one does and a man doesn't whine about his girlfriends higher wage!!!

You should really let this one go and give your girlfriend more credit, she couldn't possibly be so bloody shallow as to think less of you for earning less.

With regards the engagement ring, I think you're right to save up and the fact that you earn less and still got her an expensive one will make it all the more special because she'll know you have to save very hard to get it for her.

Honestly, it does sound like you have a lovely girlfriend and that you two are looking towards a good future together, it would be a pity to ruin it by acting like a 1950s caveman. Maybe be proud of her for doing so well?

Anywho that was long and rambley but the message - don't make a problem out of nothing!!!

Best of luck,
P.

mood

I didn't even read all you post. Way too long. But why does it matter that she earns more? This is you ego and sexist views bothering you.

Wagon

normal_caveman_guy wrote: »

her next (bitchy?) reaction was to tell me I didn't ask for it (a raise when I changed jobs) from my boss, at which point I said my wages were the best I could negotiate (there's no way I could get what she's getting in my current job/ sector).

Wait, are you pissed off because she's annoyed at you because YOU don't earn more money or that she earns more?

prinz

normal_caveman_guy wrote: »

Anyways I'm slowly saving to buy 'The Ring'. I love her so I'm not going to be stingy and want it to be at least 2-3k (which I'll be a while saving up for you can see)

Tbh this jumps out at me straight away. Spending money does not prove your love in anyway whatsoever, whether it's saving for a more expensive ring so as not to appear 'stingy' or who pays for dinner more often. There's more to life than who makes what tbh.

What would do OP if your gf lost her job? Would you enjoy paying for almost everything for both of you? Would that make you feel better?

bills

TBH you need to just get over it. Its a pretty immature attitude. A relationship is not a competition. You are meant to be in a team. If you are planning to get married, then you should not be resenting her for earning more. I earn way more than my boyfriend at the moment & there is no problem. He has earned more than me in the past & may earn more than me in the future. I help him out if he needs it & he has helped me in the past.
Now, if its an issue for her that you earn less, then thats a different story.

forest gunner

Peggypeg wrote: »

Seriously making money does not make you a man, acting like one does and a man doesn't whine about his girlfriends higher wage!!!

+1
Ill remember that

Big Bag of Chips

Wagon wrote: »

Wait, are you pissed off because she's annoyed at you because YOU don't earn more money or that she earns more?

That was the impression I got from the post. I may be totally off, and I thought I was because nobody else was mentioning it.

OP, if you were ok with it all until your gf started getting on to you about it, then I think it's time to sit her down and explain a bit of what everyone else is saying to YOU!

If she's being bitchy to you about not earning more money, then she's the one with the problem, and making it your problem.

It's hard to tell from your OP what/if anything she said.

eviltwin

I'm a bit confused by this too.

If the problem is that you are peeved your gf is earning more than you OP then get over yourself. You are thinking of marrying this woman and you are throwing your toys out of the pram over wages? Bad start to a life long committiment if you are.

If the problem is that she is peeved she's putting her hand in her pocket all the time they take what I said above but apply it to her. If you are both really serious about being married then you have to accept that you are going to go through peaks and dips where money is concerned. Its called life

What happens if you have a child and one of you needs to stay at home or cut back on work? What if in another 20 odd years we have another recession and one of you gets the sack?

Marriage is about supporting each other in EVERY sense of the word, and yes that includes financial. If you can't even do that now then maybe you both need to grow up a little before you tie the knot.

mood

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

That was the impression I got from the post. I may be totally off, and I thought I was because nobody else was mentioning it.

OP, if you were ok with it all until your gf started getting on to you about it, then I think it's time to sit her down and explain a bit of what everyone else is saying to YOU!

If she's being bitchy to you about not earning more money, then she's the one with the problem, and making it your problem.

It's hard to tell from your OP what/if anything she said.

From what I get from it he was bitching that she earn more and she just said something along the lines of 'you didn't ask for a pay rise'. It seems to me the OP thinks he should earn more based on the fact that he is a man. He is not taking into account different sectors, jobs, the fact that she may be a harder worker and better at her job et.

Wagon

mood wrote: »

From what I get from it he was bitching that she earn more and she just said something along the lines of 'you didn't ask for a pay rise'.

Depends on how she said it really.

It seems to me the OP thinks he should earn more based on the fact that he is a man.

No idea Probably best to wait until he replies giving some more detail.

He is not taking into account different sectors, jobs, the fact that she may be a harder worker and better at her job et.

I've seen hard workers doing the lowest paying jobs and the laziest gits can be found on six figure saleries :P It's more to do with the sectors.

mood

Wagon wrote: »

Depends on how she said it really.

No idea Probably best to wait until he replies giving some more detail.

I've seen hard workers doing the lowest paying jobs and the laziest gits can be found on six figure saleries :P It's more to do with the sectors.

So he can complain that she earns more (which is irrational IMO) and she is supposed to sit there and say nothing!!! He even admits he is 'I'm a bit of a caveman'.

OP I think you have very old fashioned, sexist views. I would suggest that before you propose you talk about what you both want for the future. There is not point getting engaged and married if you want different things i.e. you might want her to stay at home minding any kids you might have where as she might want to continue working etc.

LegacyUser

Hey OP here,

Lots of great advice. I realise they may have been caveman views I had but at the time it was what I felt.

Anyway I am going to sit down with herself and physically show her where my money goes (so she knows) and explain my plans.

I don't know what she meant by her comment either btw but I'm letting in slide because I don't want to drag up the past.

I think she's fully within her rights to earn more than me, it's true I would have had no problems the other way around, at least this way I have been trained to handle my cash early on (and hopefully save my way into the future).

I think I've grown as well in that I'm past the whole "men should earn more" thing - she doesn't mind so why should I?

thanks for the help

NCG

LegacyUser

normal_caveman_guy wrote: »

Hey OP here,

Anyway I am going to sit down with herself and physically show her where my money goes (so she knows) and explain my plans.

I think I've grown as well in that I'm past the whole "men should earn more" thing - she doesn't mind so why should I?

NCG

Well, if I was only seeing someone for a relatively short time then I would certainly not feel the need to justify my earnings or my expenditure.

Were you together when you bought your car/made the decision and did she have an issue with you splashing out on it? I'm always wary of women who "wouldn't be seen dead in that old car" - I drive an old car and if a woman had an issue with it due to it not being new/flash enough, I wouldn't be hanging in there.

If you guys are serious and planning to be together then why isn't she saying "Let's go away on holidays - we'll go some where cheaper and I'll chip in for you" instead of heading off with a friend and leaving you behind.

Also, is she expecting a 3k ring and if you can't afford it, then why pay that much?

AND, if I was serious about someone and I had a free car - I might think about subsidising my partner a bit as my expenses had been reduced significnalty.

Get rid of the car though. My car is 12 years old. It costs me 200 a year in parts/oil changes etc. It drives well and saves me a fortune.

Are you both splitting the rent and bills of your place equally?

Chinafoot

normal_caveman_guy wrote: »

With this new permanent contract she's earning 7k a year more than me.
.....
I didn't comment on it at first and she said it was less than the money she was getting on contract, and that she was slightly disappointed (my brain's 1st reaction was "f*** you're not happy with that!", it's second reaction was to put me in a mood which I'm hiding!)

After a bit (she was doing her own thing). I told her I thought it was good and I would be happy with it ( this was a lie but I didn't want her to pick up on how inadequate I felt), her next (bitchy?) reaction was to tell me I didn't ask for it (a raise when I changed jobs) from my boss, at which point I said my wages were the best I could negotiate (there's no way I could get what she's getting in my current job/ sector).

Right, my understanding of what happened there is that she was disappointed with her salary, you, earning less than her, thought she was being unreasonable in her disappointment and when you told her you'd be happy with it she got defensive and said that you didn't ask for a raise when you changed so your situation is different. Basically she's telling you that she has every right to feel disappointed with her salary and since you didn't ask for a rise when you changed jobs you shouldn't really be telling her that she should get over it, which is pretty much what it came down to. I don't think she's annoyed that you make less money than her, rather that you weren't a bit more supportive about how she was feeling regarding the money.

What I don't understand is why you lied when you said it was good and you'd be happy with it. If you wouldn't be happy with that wage why would you expect her to be? Because she's a woman? Because you're earning less? Do you think that she needs to accept anything she's offered for fear of making her boyfriend feel "inadequate"? Thats pretty sad really. There is also a very good chance that she knows full well you wouldn't be happy with that wage at all and telling her to be happy with it may make her think that you feel you're worth more than she is...and from some of the views expressed in your post, she wouldn't be far wrong.

Putting a disclaimer at the beginning of your post doesn't make your views ok. Admitting you're being chauvinistic (and trying to fob it off as chivalry) doesn't make it more acceptable. This is your issue and yours alone and if you want to have a happy, healthy, equal relationship you need to drag your knuckles out of the dark ages and accept that women are equal.

If you can't afford a 3k engagement ring, don't buy one. If you can't afford your car, get rid of it and get yourself something cheaper.

Oh and her going on holidays with her friend, if you did trust her as you say you do, you'd have no reason to be unhappy with her going.

beebebbeb wrote:

Well, if I was only seeing someone for a relatively short time then I would certainly not feel the need to justify my earnings or my expenditure.

...........

AND, if I was serious about someone and I had a free car - I might think about subsidising my partner a bit as my expenses had been reduced significnalty.

Bit contradictory, no? Why should she subsidise someone she's been seeing for a relatively short time? He doesn't need ot justify his spending to her at all, just like she doesn't have to support him if he is choosing to live beyond his means.

rumby

hi,
im female in a long term relationship. i earn a lot more than my oh every month. he feels slightly uncomfortable with it as his father was the breadwinner. our mortage is in both our names with equal payments, we pay equal on most house stuff like bills. i pay for all the food. like you he bought an expensive car he could not afford. as a result he has less disposable income because of a loan. it is not an issue and we have never argued about it. if a relationship is meant to be people share things including money so try not to worry about it