20 Year Stategy for the Irish Language

Highnoon

Had a look at the English version as my Irish is ok but not nearly good enough to tackle in Irish. Was wondering what others thought of it and do they see a bi-lingual future or at least Irish being used more frequently by more people because of the strategy?

dlofnep

I filled out the original Plean 2028 survey. I had a read of the text, and it's hard to say the impact that it will have. It's done in phases, so we might not see any immediate changes. I haven't read it in a while, I'll give it another read a bit later.

Micilin Muc

Think of it this way: there are approximately 72,000 daily speakers of Irish at present, and the aim of the Plean is to increase that number to 200,000 by 2028.

That means that each and every current daily speaker of Irish needs to entice 3 more people to speak Irish daily between now and 2028. Easier said than done!

ShamoBuc

Fairly confident that will not happen, but the fact that the Leaving Cert Oral is going to go up to 40 or 50% of the final mark will make a huge difference. It might also swing the way Gaeilge is taught in our primary schools which currently is way too textbook driven and nowhere near enough emphasis on oral.

Brian O Dalaigh

It would certainly be wonderful if it did. I don't see why shouldn't have a bilingual society such as in Luxembourg (although trilingual). Luxembourg is a good model where they have lower level education in Luxemburgish, middle education in German and upper education in French, with Tertiary level education often in English. Also the government there introduces bills in one language, sends them through in draft form for approval in another, and finally sets them as legal in French. And with such dominant languages as French and German beside them you would imagine the Luxemburgish language would have become extinct - yet everyone in Luxembourg (or the majority anyway) speak it. However I despair at Ireland's situation with the Irish language. I'm afraid we seem to be grapling at our own identity so much so that we follow English football teams, English soap operas, American music styles and fashion, as well as the now infamous Mid-Atlantic/D4 accent. While we don't seem to be able to accept our own roots, I cannot imagine people flooding to teanga ár ndúchais. Sea, bheadh sé go h-iontach, ach chan fhuil mé ró-chinnte faoi thorthaí an phlean sa todhchaí.

deise go deo

Has this already started? If not when will it?

Seams a bit aspirational to me.Still its a damm sight better than noting.

Gaeilge-go-deo

Brian O Dalaigh wrote: »

It would certainly be wonderful if it did. I don't see why shouldn't have a bilingual society such as in Luxembourg (although trilingual). Luxembourg is a good model where they have lower level education in Luxemburgish, middle education in German and upper education in French, with Tertiary level education often in English. Also the government there introduces bills in one language, sends them through in draft form for approval in another, and finally sets them as legal in French. And with such dominant languages as French and German beside them you would imagine the Luxemburgish language would have become extinct - yet everyone in Luxembourg (or the majority anyway) speak it.

Sure is luxemburgish like a dialect of german..?

Brian O Dalaigh

Gaeilge-go-deo wrote: »

Sure is luxemburgish like a dialect of german..?

Isn't a language just a dialect with an army and a government . It depends on how you view it. Some linguists classify it as a dialect of German, others still regard it as a dialect of the Franconian languages (which are again sometimes regarded as a dialect of German). However, just because a speech is regarded as a dialect doesn't mean that it is in any more or less danger of becoming extinct. Take a look at France for example. The Langues d'Oil are regarded by some as a supralanguage encompassing Gallo, Picard, Walloon, Franche-Comtois, Norman, etc. and including the Parisienne - the dialect upon which modern standard French is based. And because of the single language policy in force in France the other dialects are becoming extinct - the situation is so critical in fact that the majority of French-speaking people in France just speak Parisienne. It would be the same as if in the UK everyone spoke the Queen's English. But because there is no language policy there (to the extent as is seen in France) we still have accents such as Geordie, Brummie, West Country, Liverpudlian, Manchunian, Yorkshire, and dialects such as Scots (not Scottish English mind you but that speech regarded by some as a language). The difference between Luxemburgish and German is greater than say between Norwegian and Swedish, but less than between Irish and Scots Gaelic or Manx.

Aard

For a good while now, I've been thinking how an all-Irish primary-school system, coupled with an Irish-optional secondary-school system, would work. It seems that there's a precedent now in Luxembourg. I guess the main problem would be finding teachers who are actually competent in Irish.

Brian O Dalaigh

Aard wrote: »

I guess the main problem would be finding teachers who are actually competent in Irish.

If the government and powers-that-be are really serious about such a move, then perhaps an immersion course for the teachers prior to launching an all-Irish primary education system would be a good way to go. There are many examples of countries where we could look for ideas - Finland as an example where the language was threatened by Swedish prior to its independence from Russia (who only recognised Swedish as the state language there under the Duchy of Finland), Luxembourg as mentioned above, Israel (although we already have a lingua franca in English), the Czech Republic (where Czech was actually a series of non-standardised dialects until the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire) and of course our neighbours in Wales (although not quite the system as advocated here). I'm sure there are other examples throughout the world - indeed there are but no more spring to mind just now.

Micilin Muc

Brian O Dalaigh wrote: »

If the government and powers-that-be are really serious about such a move, then perhaps an immersion course for the teachers prior to launching an all-Irish primary education system would be a good way to go.

This happened at the foundation of the State. School was cancelled for the last three months or so before the summer holidays and all the country's primary school teachers went to the Gaeltachtaí to brush up on their Irish.

Nowadays the teacher training colleges (St. Pat's and Marino anyway) send their first year students to the Gaeltachtaí for three weeks at the end of first year. It's not enough. By the time the students come to final year, their standard has dropped again.

The Irish language in the education system needs to be completely overhauled in all the three levels of education, for example:

• part-immersion for some subjects in primary school
• provision of two Leaving Certificate syllabi (communicative & literary)
• raising of standards of degrees (students should be failed if they're not good enough!)

Aard

Yes, Brian, I agree: where there's a will, there's a way.


Also, afaik, primary-school teachers are already meant to be able to speak the language, so it shouldn't be such a hardship for them in theory. I think the main difficulty would lie in convincing the anti-Irish brigade that it would actually be a beneficial change. Some sort of carrot in the form of Irish not being a compulsory subject in secondary may help.

Daon Phoblacht Chorcai

Good thread as it’s important to discuss the Stráitéis 20 Bliain.

1. It’s difficult for everyone that does not work with Irish daily in some professional capacity or who is not from or living in Gaeltacht to grasp all the details of what goes on within the Irish language scene. I’d need a dictionary at my side at any conferences and often you lose the gist of a discussion if complex terms are used. The onus is on all of us to continually improve our grasp of the language but Gaelgoirí have to appreciate that those of us who cannot use Irish at work or in every day life simply often cannot understand the minutiae of language policy and discussion.

2. Normalisation is a big deal in the 20 year strategy. As long as it’s NOT ‘normal’ to use Irish in non-Gaeltacht areas it will be difficult, but not impossible, for the language to flourish. Say ‘go raibh maith agat’ to an Irish person in a shop and you’re unlikely to get a ‘fáilte romhat’ back.

There’s not much point focussing blame for that situation on anyone but if you want to see the proliferation of the language then addressing that issue is fundamental. There’s little point in having a fantastic education system producing bilingual adults if there’s nowhere for adults to use it. We can’t just lock ourselves in a room with TG4.

3. Most cities have a promotional group dedicated to promoting Irish. Gallimh le Gaeilge and Gael Taca in Cork do good work trying to encourage the business community there to embrace bilingualism. For one it brings in curious tourists and surveys consistently show over 90% of visitors seek cultural authenticity. Join your local one if you’re interested in promoting Irish (you don’t have to be fluent).

An issue (as opposed to a problem) with many promotional groups is that they are mainly made up of teachers/lecturers/academics. They bring correctness and many other valuable skills but organisations need a lot more variety in their thinking. Furthermore, for many people who speak Irish and don’t need/use Irish in their job it can feel quite lonely at times but you’d be amazed how many people have a bit more than just the cúpla focal if you probe around.

4. Answers to the question ‘what’s the point of Irish?’ should be countered in part by the enjoyment of speaking another language. I get enormous satisfaction from being able to hold a reasonably long conversation with somebody. That’s what the buzz is for many people and that’s not highlighted enough. How many people have you heard saying ‘I’d love to be able to speak a bit of it or understand the news’?

Sometimes we take the need to promote Irish as a given but we don’t always ask why. Of course there’s the ‘need’ to maintain our culture in the face of frantic globalisation but for most people first and foremost speaking Irish gives us pleasure…in the same way the main purpose of sex is for reproduction but more than that it’s also extremely enjoyable (if you were about to tune out that might keep you reading!).

5. Use it. People who aren’t active speakers (I don’t like the concession that Irish adults with 13 years schooling have no Irish – they do somewhere in the back of their brain) can be put off or embarrassed by being put on the spot. That’s because the Irish education system is/was brutal so it’s not their fault. That said, throwing in a slán at the end of conversations or a GRMA here and there might encourage people to start thinking about going back to adult ed classes etc.

6. In discussions about promotion of the Irish language the predominant topic is always ‘how can we fix the schools’. It deserves plenty airtime of course but are we writing off everyone who went through the school system? It often feels like it.

In reference to the person above who said every speaker has to get three other people to speak it to reach the 20 year target. That doesn’t seem too bad at all. One person every 6 years! The Irish community needs to be rallied from within to promote the language in a way that encourages non-speakers to give it a go. I’m not being naïve in my thinking about the size of this challenge though though. A university lecturer once told me “I’m paid to teach Irish not to promote it”. There’s that mentality too which is another day’s work.

Encouraging people to do adult ed classes is the way to pump up the numbers but there has to be a viable social circle as well in which people can use it.

Gaelchultúr’s courses are excellent, if a little pricey. Since doing them myself I meet people by chance regularly who I was in the class with and we always speak in Irish – as best we can.

Even though I think it’s worth every penny a tax credit towards doing courses like this might go a long way in non-Gaeltacht areas.

Bhur tuairimí le do thoil….