Is magnet ADSL or DSL ? [lc]

valor

As per title?

20goto10

DSL unless you are going for their eircom resell package (can't remember the name)

jor el

ADSL is DSL.

Magnet use ADSL2+ on their unbundled exchanges, and plain old ADSL (or RADSL as eircom use) for the bitstream customers.

Cabaal

valor wrote: »

As per title?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSL

DSL originally stood for digital subscriber loop. In telecommunications marketing, the term Digital Subscriber Line is widely understood to mean Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL), the most commonly installed technical varieties of DSL.

20goto10

ok, it may not be technically accurate but I think the point is you need a different kind of router.

valor

For the purposes of using a router such as http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Draytek-Vigor-2820n-Wireless-ADSL-ADSL2-Router-/170458185068?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item27b0197d6c#payId for failover purposes,
then ADSL = DSL?

I guess I'm dumb!

Thanks

watty

Most modern routers with built in DSL modems do most flavours of xDSL except VDSL and VDSL2

20goto10

Are you in the unbundled package? If so you need to plug the magnet modem into your router. This requires an RJ45 socket (network cable) as opposed to an RJ11 socket (phone cable). I think they are commonly called DSL routers but maybe not.

watty

Ethernet routers, not DSL router. A dsl router implies a built in dsl modem. Though some companies call them cable/dsl routers as they can be used with Cable Modems or DSL modems via ethernet WAN port.

A router for an external modem has a 5th "ethernet WAN" port, usually coloured different.

20goto10

watty wrote: »

some companies call them cable/dsl routers as they can be used with Cable Modems or DSL modems via ethernet WAN port.

Yes that's my point. Depends what package he is on but if it's unbundled and he plans on replacing the modem then he's in for disappointment. When I was shopping fir one they were all called cable/DSL routers. Whether technically accurate or not, this is what he needs.

You could call magnet to confirm. They were very helpful when I was asking the same questions.

jor el

valor wrote: »

For the purposes of using a router such as http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Draytek-Vigor-2820n-Wireless-ADSL-ADSL2-Router-/170458185068?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item27b0197d6c#payId for failover purposes,
then ADSL = DSL?

I guess I'm dumb!

Thanks

What is it you want to do? Replace the Magnet supplied modem/router, or add a router after the one they supplied? I don't think replacing is an option, as Magnet don't give out the details you need. They don't want people using their own modem.

Adding a router after Magnet's one is possible, but might be pointless, since you won't be able to put the supplied modem/router into bridge mode, so it will still be a router.

valor

I will have 2 net connections, UPC and Magnet, and I want to use the above mentioned router to act as a fail safe, so if my main connection goes down, it seamlessly moves me into the other without me even knowing

Wall ==-> magnet modem, UPc modem ==> above router ==> my pc

does that setup work?

valor

I dont even have the Magnet service yet, and I dont know what you mean by unbundled - bundled with phone? I'll just be getting their 24mb broadband..I think the line rental is thru them also? My friend is organising ordering it so I'm not sure

valor

"since you won't be able to put the supplied modem/router into bridge mode, so it will still be a router. "

Does this mean that when I connect the Magnet modem/router to the Draytek Dual wan router, it wont work?

sorry for spamming all the questions, appreciate the help

Knasher

It shouldn't make a difference for your purposes. The reason that jor el mentioned it is because you can get routers that can do the pppoe encapsulation instead of the DSL modem that magnet provide. Which should lead to lower pings or overcome some of the shortcomings of cheaper, vendor supplied modems. Again not something you really need to worry about, us tekkies just prefer to control as much of the equipment as possible.

Unbundling (or LLU(Local Loop Unbundling)) refers to when the ISP uses their own equipment in the exchange, allowing them to provided much faster speeds than Eircom. Essentially they are providing the backhaul rather than relaying through more of Eircoms network. Again nothing for you to worry about, unfortunately they still need to pay line rental to Eircom as they are still using a part of the Eircom network. So while you pay it to Magnet, they essential then just pass it onto Eircom.

jor el

valor wrote: »

I will have 2 net connections, UPC and Magnet, and I want to use the above mentioned router to act as a fail safe, so if my main connection goes down, it seamlessly moves me into the other without me even knowing

Wall ==-> magnet modem, UPc modem ==> above router ==> my pc

does that setup work?

Now I understand, but no, I don't think it will work. Magnet won't let you put your own modem to their line, so you can't use the ADSL modem built into the Draytek router. You can put the UPC cable modem on the secondary WAN interface, but your primary DSL interface is the problem.

If Magnet will give you the settings you need, then you will be able to do this, but I don't think that's something they will do.

Question though, this seems very expensive for a home setup. If your plan is to use either or both to run some sort of server off of, then forget it. Neither ISP will allow this, and when they figure out what you're doing, they'll disconnect you. The upload speeds on these home broadband connections are not good enough to sustain a server on either.

Having a backup does seem over kill. I had BT for 3 years with only 1 outage for a few hours. Had Smart then for 15 months without a single outage. Have had UPC now for 6 months, no outages at all. You should question whether you need this at all.

watty

It does seem overkill

If the magnet router allows an IP for DMZ, then put THAT IP as Static WAN IP in 2nd port of Draytek. Don't plug anytheing else into Magnet router. [EDIT: If the Draytek doesn't have 2 x RJ45 WAN ports, it's no good for this]

Then whatever X is on 192.168.x.y of Magnet router LAN addresses pick a different value for X on your Draytek LAN (say 192.168.4.1 for router) and then all LAN addresses start 192.168.4.---

UPC modem goes on other WAN port.

DMZ isn't bridging as such, but it's the next best thing as you don't then have to configure port forwarding on the Magnet Router.

Knasher

Nicely spotted by jor el, the draytek router seems to have a rj11 and rj45 port for the dual wans, so you need an ISP that doesn't mind you using your own equipment.

valor

Its to ensure stability to play online poker so I never disconnect. It may seem like overkill, but disconnecting can be very costly so I think it'll be worth it - If I can get it to work!

I asked the seller on ebay if the fact that the ISP wont let you modify the modem/router you supply and he said

"If you connect that modem/router to the WAN2 port on the draytek 2820 then it wont matter at all - traffic will just route through it anyway."

I dont see why I cant simply connect the modem Magnet supply via a cable into the WAN2 port on the router? What would happen then?

Thanks again for replies

20goto10

valor wrote: »

I dont see why I cant simply connect the modem Magnet supply via a cable into the WAN2 port on the router? What would happen then?

Thanks again for replies

Thats how I have my router setup. Magnet will not allow you to replace the modem so it is your only option.

valor wrote: »

If your plan is to use either or both to run some sort of server off of, then forget it. Neither ISP will allow this, and when they figure out what you're doing, they'll disconnect you.

Why would they disconnect you? It's not against any terms and conditions. The upload bandwidth is there to be used for whatever purpose you want (except illegal activity of course). I have a home server setup with Magnet and they are aware of it because when I was signing up I questioned them as to how I could set it up if they have me restricted to their modem. This is when they told I could plug the modem into a router. They also gave me a 1mb upload bandwidth.

Knasher

The problem is that the cable modem must be connected to the wan 2 port, as the outputs on a cable modem are rj45 and usb (and I'm assuming that you won't be able to use the usb port, but it might be worth looking into). Similarly you need to use the magnet modem and that outputs rj45 and I'd imagine USB as well. So your problem is that you need a router with two rj45 ports but you only have one. It is most likely possible to get a similar product with two rj45 wan ports rather than a rj11 and a rj45.

As you are only going to be using the second internet connection for backup I really do think you would be better off using a 3G connection as the secondary line. Its very doubtful that you would be sending a whole lot of data over that connection in a given month, and it would be cheaper than the line rental alone compared to a DSL line.

EDIT: Actually scratch that, I had a read through the product description and it mandates that you can either use the USB port or the ethernet port, but not both. So 3G could never act as a backup for cable on that router.

jor el

valor wrote: »

I dont see why I cant simply connect the modem Magnet supply via a cable into the WAN2 port on the router? What would happen then?

Where would you connect the cable modem?

You could use it as watty stated earlier, if it's possible. You should also contact Magnet tech-support about using your own modem, and see what they say.

As for how you want to use this, I'm not sure but when the router switches from one WAN interface to the other, would all your sessions not disconnect? If so, you would have to reconnect to continue playing. I think that without ISP support, this is what would happen.

watty

You lose all connections & Sessions swtiching between ISPs.

valor

I dont think I do lose connections ...I've contacted smoe of the sites I play at who say that the process should be relatively seamless even when changing IPs''..if i lag a few seconds during the changeover, its better than completely losing my connection?

I dont really understand what Watty stated earlier haha, can it be explained easier?


This has multiple RJ45 ports http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Draytek-Vigor-2920-Dual-WAN-Router-Firewall-and-QoS-/350363131842?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5193451fc2

Is it a better choice?

valor

jor el wrote: »

Where would you connect the cable modem?

.

I dont really understand the difference between the 2 ports, or what is the difference between a WAN and WAN2 port, and so on

Knasher

In first one you posted the first WAN port was a RJ11 (which is the standard phone line port used in Ireland among other countries), the second WAN port is an RJ45 which is used for ethernet. Both the UPC and Magnet modems must be used, and as they both output RJ45 you require a router with two RJ45 ports.

The second router you posted should be more suitable for your purposes, people are just hesitant in recommending it to you as its an expensive route, especially as you will be tied to a year long lease for both lines and its quite possible that it won't work as you intend.

Thats another reason to go with a 3G connection BTW, if you go with PAYG you won't be stuck in a contract if it doesn't work out, and your only out of pocket the price of the modem and router.

valor

OK so it looks like the second one is the way forward..

I understand people are hesitant to recommend me something that might not be the right thing, but you guys definitely know better than I ;-)

I'm getting 2 connections either way, so getting stuck into a contract isn't an issue, dont worry about the cost...I gamble alot, I'm willing to gamble here


So the fact that I cant edit the settings on the Magnet modem/router wont be a factor when I am connecting it via RJ45?

Another question : if the Magnet router/modem is connecetd to the Draytek, and I am using the Draytek using a lan cable, can other people still connect to the MAgnet one wirelessly? Ie, can they BOTH then be used for connecting to the internet ? Kind of irrelevant question, because I'll be buying the Wirelss version so ther people ie my roommate or visitors can use it wirelessly, just interested

jor el

valor wrote: »

So the fact that I cant edit the settings on the Magnet modem/router wont be a factor when I am connecting it via RJ45?

Should be OK.

valor wrote: »

Another question : if the Magnet router/modem is connecetd to the Draytek, and I am using the Draytek using a lan cable, can other people still connect to the MAgnet one wirelessly? Ie, can they BOTH then be used for connecting to the internet ? Kind of irrelevant question, because I'll be buying the Wirelss version so ther people ie my roommate or visitors can use it wirelessly, just interested

Others will still be able to connect directly to the Magnet modem, this should not be any problem at all. You shouldn't need the wireless Draytec in that case, unless you want everyone to have uninterrupted broadband.

valor

An ebay seller that I am in contact with then said

"If your ISP refuses to give you your ADSL username and password then you wont be able to enter it onto the Draytek 2820, so consequently it wont work.

Instead you would have to use a Draytek 2920 - with your ISP's modems connected to each WAN port.
This will give you the connectivity and failover solution you want, but ideally it would be better if the ISP provided the username and password to you."


This whole thing is pretty confusing

Are any of you guys networking professionals that do freelance stuff and can definitevely tell me what router I will need / provide support if I run into any problems?

Knasher

That's pretty much the jist of what we have been saying, the 2820 requires that you don't use the magnet modem, which isn't an option for you. So you're must use the 2920 which allows you to use two modems at once. Additionally if you require wireless the 2920 version you linked to doesn't have it, but the same seller also has a 2920n which has 802.11n wireless.

valor

EH, Yeah, I dunno what I meant by pasting that

on the 2920, it says it has 4 RJ5 ports, and then WAN1 and WAN2. So I would be using 2 of the RJ45 ports rather than the WAn1/WAn2 ports?


Another seller said

"This is because load balancing only works betweel WAN1 and WAN2 ports, not WAN and LAN. Bridging is when you set up the adsl router to act as a modem only. I know this can be done with the older Thomson routers provided by O2. There is a lot of info on bridging routers on the net. Bridging will set up one of the LAN ports as a modem bypass which can be connected directly to WAN 1 or 2 on a 2930 device. The WAN ip address from the ISP will then be picked up by the Vigor not the ISP router."

Which leads me to believe it wouldn't work?

Grand_Izer

On my DrayTek 2820n, there's four RJ45 ports for LAN access plus a fifth RJ45 port which is dedicated to the WAN2 port. My UPC modem connects to this WAN2 port (in gateway mode).

From the look of the 2920, you'd connect your first modem to the WAN1 port and a second modem to the WAN2 port (both set to gateway mode). This would still leave you with four RJ4 ports for LAN access.

valor

BUt my whole problem si that I cant connect to the WAN1 port with the magnet modem then, right?

What does "in gateway mode" mean?

Thanks