Service history rant!

Stevie Dakota

I've helped 2 friends source cars recently. A 2008 CRV and 2007 Zafira, both from main dealers and in both cases the was NO service history with either car, no receipts, stamps, nothing. A bit of detective work by myself tracked down that there were indeed serviced, but I am astounded that main dealers are offering such shoddy service historied cars. Part 2 of my rant is aimed at bloody Irish car owners which buy new cars and then don't keep any track of what was done and where, araraghghghgh!!!!

Alun

On many occasions when getting my car serviced at a main dealer (Ford), despite having left the service book in plain view on the passenger seat, I still had to go back in afterwards and get them to stamp it. No apology, and a rather "OK, I suppose we'll do it if we really must" kind of attitude.

langdang

I've seen a main dealer say " eh we don't really do that" with a bemused look on their face, as if the customer was a little bit simple. I don't get it - why?

BrianD3

You're right. I regularly nag relatives about keeping service records for their cars. If i didn't tell them they'd likely throw out or lose the receipts. And because dealers rarely stamp service books IME, the owner then has no record of the servicing.

In general people are really sloppy when it comes to their cars not just when it comes to keeping service records. Handbooks, keys, jacks, even spare wheels are often missing on relatively new vehicles.

cantdecide

The idea of bothering to do something that might benefit someone besides themselves in the future is just too much to bear.

Also the attitude of 'I put petrol in- isn't that enough?'.

snowman707

my mechanic showed me a ford focus with fsh with a limerick main ford dealer

70k miles on clock he reckoned the rear brake drums were never taken off and also it did not see too many new air filters,

ianobrien

None of my cars have a Full Main Dealer Service History, as once they are out of warranty, I service them at home. They have a full history however, as I keep the receipts for the consumables, and write on them at what mileage they were fitted. I stuff the receipts into the handbook then (or if the handbook is full, into a specific file at home). We have one exception mind......

I know that some might run from the cars if I try to sell them, but I'm not paying main dealers to get an appretenance to change the oil. I'll use a OE filter, Castrol Oil, have a good proper look at everything and save 50 quid as well.

cantdecide

LIGHTNING wrote: »

...their is no records for the last two years.

...and funnily enough it had only covered 5k???

Anan1

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I had a look at a 5 Series that was advertised with FSH, I get their and they last 30k their was no sign of any stamps or receipts. The chaps response was "oh its been serviced". No mate you car doesnt have FSH as their is no records for the last two years.

In my experience, Irish sellers have to be baby-talked through the service history to make sure it's complete. You literally have to make them read out the dates/mileages of the stamps in the book.

Gurgle

Where does this notion come from that a 'service history' is worth something?

When buying a car, the only relevance is what condition its in. Who cares whether some back-office clerk in a dealership spends his days slamming an ink-stamp onto an endless series of service books?

At best, it confirms that the car visited a garage on the given dates. Doesn't mean the car was looked after, maintained or even serviced properly. And they're the genuine books.

Its just a distraction for noveau tyre-kickers to flick through and say 'hmmm' at.

cantdecide

ianobrien wrote: »

None of my cars have a Full Main Dealer Service History, as once they are out of warranty, I service them at home. They have a full history however, as I keep the receipts for the consumables, and write on them at what mileage they were fitted. I stuff the receipts into the handbook then (or if the handbook is full, into a specific file at home). We have one exception mind......

I know that some might run from the cars if I try to sell them, but I'm not paying main dealers to get an appretenance to change the oil. I'll use a OE filter, Castrol Oil, have a good proper look at everything and save 50 quid as well.

Now I'm selling a car on that I bought from you. I'm trying you convince a complete stranger that another complete stranger didn't forge this 'history'.

Most cars in this country don't matter but if I were looking at any kind of upmarket car with ad-hock history, I'd give it a miss no matter how compelling it was.

An oil service is cheap after all and despite the old chestnuts, main dealer serviced cars are at least as well serviced as indies or DIYers.

PS, I've just bought a car with 206k miles and no history and it's a dinger.

Anan1

Gurgle wrote: »

Where does this notion come from that a 'service history' is worth something?

When buying a car, the only relevance is what condition its in. Who cares whether some back-office clerk in a dealership spends his days slamming an ink-stamp onto an endless series of service books?

At best, it confirms that the car visited a garage on the given dates. Doesn't mean the car was looked after, maintained or even serviced properly. And they're the genuine books.

Its just a distraction for noveau tyre-kickers to flick through and say 'hmmm' at.

It proves that the car got oil/belts/parts replaced at specified times, as per the manufacturers recommendations. It also gives a pretty good indication of the accuracy of the recorded mileage. That's where I, at any rate, get the notion that it's worth something.

Gurgle

Anan1 wrote: »

It proves that the car got oil/belts/parts replaced at specified times, as per the manufacturers recommendations. It also gives a pretty good indication of the accuracy of the recorded mileage. That's where I, at any rate, get the notion that it's worth something.

Thats assuming you believe a 'document' provided by the person trying to sell you the car. You're also trusting that their mechanic never pads out the bills.

Never mind fake books, lets say the timing belt snapped and the engine was mangled & rebuilt. Is that going to be mentioned in there?

The car could have been smashed to within an inch of its book value and rebuilt with a liberal smttering of parts from the scrapyard, will this be mentioned?

cantdecide

Gurgle wrote: »

Thats assuming you believe a 'document' provided by the person trying to sell you the car. You're also trusting that their mechanic never pads out the bills.

Never mind fake books, lets say the timing belt snapped and the engine was mangled & rebuilt. Is that going to be mentioned in there?

The car could have been smashed to within an inch of its book value and rebuilt with a liberal smttering of parts from the scrapyard, will this be mentioned?

FSH should only supplement your own feelings, instincts and further diligence.

Anan1

Gurgle wrote: »

Thats assuming you believe a 'document' provided by the person trying to sell you the car. You're also trusting that their mechanic never pads out the bills.

True, but you can check out the reputation of the service agent and draw your own conclusions.

Gurgle wrote: »

Never mind fake books, lets say the timing belt snapped and the engine was mangled & rebuilt. Is that going to be mentioned in there?

I'd certainly mention it, if done properly it's a top end rebuild at least.

Gurgle wrote: »

The car could have been smashed to within an inch of its book value and rebuilt with a liberal smttering of parts from the scrapyard, will this be mentioned?

A main dealer is very unlikely to do this.

djimi

From my experience FSH means nothing other than the car has been serviced by a main dealer. Up until last year every car I owned has been serviced by a friend of mine, who changed everything there was to be changed at every service and did a far better job of my cars than a main dealer would have done (he worked for a main dealer but serviced cars in his spare time). I can guarantee you that any car he looked after would be in as good, if not better, nick than had it gotten a FSH from a main dealer to back it up.

Most people I know are not willing to pay the prices of main dealers when it comes to servicing their cars, and instead will go to a local mechanic who will charge less. For this reason just because a car has little or no service history does not mean a whole lot in terms of its condition.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

From my experience FSH means nothing other than the car has been serviced by a main dealer. Up until last year every car I owned has been serviced by a friend of mine, who changed everything there was to be changed at every service and did a far better job of my cars than a main dealer would have done (he worked for a main dealer but serviced cars in his spare time). I can guarantee you that any car he looked after would be in as good, if not better, nick than had it gotten a FSH from a main dealer to back it up.

Most people I know are not willing to pay the prices of main dealers when it comes to servicing their cars, and instead will go to a local mechanic who will charge less. For this reason just because a car has little or no service history does not mean a whole lot in terms of its condition.

Why wouldn't work done by a local mechanic form part of a service history?

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Why wouldn't work done by a local mechanic form part of a service history?

I was always under the impression that only services done by main dealers were considered to be part of a the service history? Maybe I got that totally wrong...

Stevie Dakota

djimi wrote: »

I was always under the impression that only services done by main dealers were considered to be part of a the service history? Maybe I got that totally wrong...

Not so, there are 3 types -
SH - Means not complete
FSH - Complete
then main dealer
FBMWSH - Full BMW (for example) Service History

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

I was always under the impression that only services done by main dealers were considered to be part of a the service history? Maybe I got that totally wrong...

Nope, a service history is simply documentation showing what was done to the car and when. Depending on context, a bundle of invoices from a reputable independent can be worth more than a row of stamps from a main dealer.

djimi

Oh, fair enough. I may start keeping that sort of thing so! Im not sure why but I always thought it was just main dealers who could stamp the service history, or at least theres was the only stamp that matters.

ianobrien

cantdecide wrote: »

Now I'm selling a car on that I bought from you. I'm trying you convince a complete stranger that another complete stranger didn't forge this 'history'.

The recepts for the parts would have the dates on them, and if you want to check, you can take them to the main dealer to check if they are genuine. The recepits are a history, not a main dealer history

How do you know that a stamped book is a full Main Dealer history. The stamps can be bought on ebay, and the receipts printed at home.

cantdecide wrote: »

An oil service is cheap after all and despite the old chestnuts, main dealer serviced cars are at least as well serviced as indies or DIYers.

Like the car that a friend bought from a Main Dealer (no names will be given) that had a "Full Main Dealer History" (all from the dealer that sold it) and also serviced it before sale (and stamping the book). I had a look at it (as you do when a friend gets a new motor) and I noticed the oil filter was filty, old oil in the engine and the air filter was black. Main dealer service - No, I'd rather a good indy that I's trust, or I'll do it myself.

Main Dealer History is useful for warranty claims. I'd trust a marque specialist over the main dealer (especially for something exotic) and a good indy values his word-of-mouth reputation more.

cantdecide wrote: »

Now I'm selling a car on that I bought from you.

I generally get rid of cars when they have well north of 100K miles on the clock (usually around the 130k to 150k miles mark). Even if you put very little mileage on it, getting a car with that mileage and a history is very rare indeed.

cantdecide wrote: »

PS, I've just bought a car with 206k miles and no history and it's a dinger.

Well wear my friend.

nogoodnamesleft

My own car had a full service history main dealer from the UK. When I 1st serviced my car a few items that appeared to have been over looked included pollen filer and air filter. So much so I had to get the hoover to clean out the airbox of debris and dry leaves it was a genuine low mileage car also 40k. So I wouldnt put my emphasis on main dealer history. I have also seen items have been charged to the customer when in fact they were not in fact replaced.

I would put more emphasis on a car that has been looked after by an enthuasist with documented service history.

One thing about servicing your own vehicle is that you know things have been changed (piece of mind) as well as good quality parts have been used.

Regards my own service history I keep the receipts and invoices for parts to prove what has been done. Invoices have been made out in my name and if a potential buyer down the line wants to verify they can look at the invoices as well as the list of previous owners to see if they match.

The majority of local Mechanics obviously dont specialse in marques so they can be rough and ready wont have the correct spec oil that the majority of new cars require or have diagnostic equipment readily available.

REXER

Alun wrote: »

On many occasions when getting my car serviced at a main dealer (Ford), despite having left the service book in plain view on the passenger seat, I still had to go back in afterwards and get them to stamp it. No apology, and a rather "OK, I suppose we'll do it if we really must" kind of attitude.

It seems strange to me that anyone would hand over cash to the workshop without ensuring that the documentation was done?

A case of the jobs not finished until the paperwork is done!

GTE

Gurgle wrote: »

Where does this notion come from that a 'service history' is worth something?

Well, its intention is to tell prospective buyers that it was serviced properly.
If its a main dealer stamp, for me its a sign that all quality standards were met but its not difficult to keep the print out you get after a service so Id want to see both. If its an indy dealer I will want to examine the documents to see what was done with the car and with what.

The point you may be moving towards is that nowadays its lost its credibility because of the coyboy factor that everyone seems to have to deal with but there are things like oil, bushes and any number of things that a clean interior and a straight body can hide in terms of the impression you get from the car.

You could see the best VW diesel possible and the wrong oil still could have been used from day one and you would have a pig of troubles to deal with that you didnt know about.

Although it can be argued well that service history's are losing their credibility they are still an essential must have when buying used. At least you can do some research yourself from it.

buckshotbrolan

ianobrien wrote: »

None of my cars have a Full Main Dealer Service History, as once they are out of warranty, I service them at home. They have a full history however, as I keep the receipts for the consumables, and write on them at what mileage they were fitted. I stuff the receipts into the handbook then (or if the handbook is full, into a specific file at home). We have one exception mind......

I know that some might run from the cars if I try to sell them, but I'm not paying main dealers to get an appretenance to change the oil. I'll use a OE filter, Castrol Oil, have a good proper look at everything and save 50 quid as well.

Main dealer service is a joke! I've been taking my pickup to the dealer to keep up the service history and she allways comes back with problems, I asked the young lad who had just finished servicing my baby when i should have the transmission oil and diff oil changed, reply'd; oh the oil is for life! So happy to hand over 350 euro.
I do service the wifes car myself and never had a problem with it plus I have piece of mind that it is done right. Now im selling my pickup and no one cares about the service history! Only the price it is going for.

Guy:Incognito

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

I've helped 2 friends source cars recently. A 2008 CRV and 2007 Zafira, both from main dealers and in both cases the was NO service history with either car, no receipts, stamps, nothing. A bit of detective work by myself tracked down that there were indeed serviced, but I am astounded that main dealers are offering such shoddy service historied cars. Part 2 of my rant is aimed at bloody Irish car owners which buy new cars and then don't keep any track of what was done and where, araraghghghgh!!!!

I'd put a lot of blame on the shoulders of buyers. Why are they not insisting on FSH's? Theres plenty of 2nd hand cars around . There should be no need to buy a car without a history and if people stopped buyign them unless they had them, more and more cars would have a proper verifiable history.

djimi wrote: »

Up until last year every car I owned has been serviced by a friend of mine, who changed everything there was to be changed at every service and did a far better job of my cars than a main dealer would have done (he worked for a main dealer but serviced cars in his spare time). tion.

Is that not saying that your friend is slacking off when not doing cash jobs for himself?

Alun

REXER wrote: »

It seems strange to me that anyone would hand over cash to the workshop without ensuring that the documentation was done?

A case of the jobs not finished until the paperwork is done!

The first time it happened, I had just arrived on these shores from "the continent" where you don't have to ensure that it's done, it's just done, every time without asking, so I naively assumed they would do it here too, especially seeing as I'd gone to the trouble of getting the book out of the glove box for them.