The Limerick Crisis

Orizio

Considering the players won't go back, Justin won't go, the clubs won't fix it and the County Board won't give in is it fair to say the absolutely only way to save us from one and a half years (and possibly more) of watching the Limerick hurlers get hammered and in the process demean the Munster Championship is if every single hurler in Limerick refuses to play under Justin?

Browney7

A bit drastic and to be honest a lot of lads on the team now will have a certain loyalty to Justin since he has shown faith in them.

Croke park need to bang some heads together I think and force everyone to sit around the table because their is a distrust between the players and the board.

It's gone beyond a joke now to be fair. This is a problem for the GAA not just Limerick hurling. What is Mickey Ned doing differently with the footballers that Lucey, Razor and James Ryan will play football for him God only knows.

Orizio

Croker doesn't want to go anywhere near it, and as far as I can tell they did little to nothing last year with the Cork impasse.

A complete player boycott really is the only way by this stage.

Browney7

But how long can Croke park sit idly by?? I reckon the dispute cost the Munster council anywhere up to €500000 today. They need mediation or maybe even to be extreme about it the LRC or some labour body like that to pass judgement on the issue.

Put all the facts out in the air. Tell the players they have been under achieving for years and to stop looking for a scapegoat and to tell JMC to improve his management techniques and to tell the County board (to put it mildly) cop the f**k on because this is doing untold damage to Limerick and is destroying the county that I've supported all my life.

It's probably even creating bad blood between fellas of the same club at this stage.

ShamoBuc

I do not think Croke park will step in, although they should. The limerick people have tried to sort it out, but the idea of that team playing for the next 18 months cannot put a smile on any player or fan from any county, let alone limerick.
If everyone involved got around a table, behind closed doors, and said their piece, cleared the air somewhat, then that would at least be a start. The first step on a long journey is sometimes the hardest one.

Amazotheamazing

Getting rid of Justin won't change the fact that even the strongest squad we have are nowhere near All Ireland contenders. There needs to be full reform of Limerick hurling, imo. We have, iirc, the fourth highest number of senior hurlers in Ireland, after Cork, Tipp and Galway but we have a shockingly low percentage of top class ones.

Orizio

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Getting rid of Justin won't change the fact that even the strongest squad we have are nowhere near All Ireland contenders. There needs to be full reform of Limerick hurling, imo. We have, iirc, the fourth highest number of senior hurlers in Ireland, after Cork, Tipp and Galway but we have a shockingly low percentage of top class ones.

Yes, but at least a proper squad would make games competitive and not drag the Munster Championship into disrespute.

Amazotheamazing

Orizio wrote: »

Yes, but at least a proper squad would make games competitive and not drag the Munster Championship into disrespute.

As a Limerick fan, I'm far more concerned about the long term future of Limerick hurling that about your enjoyment of the Munster Championship. I'd happily sell the next five years of the Munster Championship into disrepute if I thought we would have an All Ireland winning panel at the end of it.

I think it's time for all parties to look at the last 40 years of Limerick hurling (or even further since the team of the early 1970's was more a one-off than anything else, success-wise) and ask where we want to be for the next forty. No doubt it's conceivable we could pox an All Ireland or two in the next 40 years, but does anyone really think we'll enjoy a period of Kilkenny-esque dominance going along as we currently have been?

For a hurling county with the fourth highest number of players, our record is pathetic, dismal and deeply disturbing. If this current crisis gets rid of a lot of dead wood (admittedly more on the County Board's side of things) then it's a good thing.

Orizio

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

As a Limerick fan, I'm far more concerned about the long term future of Limerick hurling that about your enjoyment of the Munster Championship

Completely missing the point - the Munster Hurling Championship is supposed to be the crown jewel in the GAA's crown, and Limerick's performance today makes an absolute mockery of this. Something's are more important then parochial loyalties - the well-being of the GAA is a prime example. If Limerick put out their reserves next year led by Justin McCarthy then they should be kicked out of the Munster Championship for dragging the competition into disrepute - simple as.

Amazotheamazing

Orizio wrote: »

Completely missing the point - the Munster Hurling Championship is supposed to be the crown jewel in the GAA's crown, and Limerick's performance today makes an absolute mockery of this. Something's are more important then parochial loyalties - the well-being of the GAA is a prime example. If Limerick put out their reserves next year led by Justin McCarthy then they should be kicked out of the Munster Championship for dragging the competition into disrepute - simple as.

Hardly missing the point, we just have different priorities. You, being a Cork fan, want to see Cork win a good Munster Championship, Me, being a Limerick fan, want what's best for Limerick hurling, regardless of it's impact on the immediate Munster Championship.

If you think the well being of hurling is served by kicking Limerick (regardless of who they field) out of the Championship then I don't think we'll ever agree. The well being of hurling would be best served by finding out why counties like Limerick and Galway continue to underachieve in All Irelands. Knee-jerk responses like expelling Limerick from the Munster Championship wouldn't do any long term good, imo.

Orizio

The well-being of the Munster Championship is served by a competitive Limerick side, which isn't what we saw today. Limerick GAA has failed to solve a pretty straight forward problem due purely to pride and stuborness - even the gombeens that run Cork GAA comprised by the end. If kicking them out of the Munster Championship, and imo they are little better then the Kerry hurlers who are currently ostracised in Munster Hurling, helps them make sense then so be it.

aidan24326

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The well being of hurling would be best served by finding out why counties like Limerick and Galway continue to underachieve in All Irelands

As a Galwayman I can certainly identify with how much Galway have underachieved at senior level over the last number of years. However, Galway hurling in gneral is in a healthy state. Consistently good underage teams year after year, one of the best club championships in the country, and currently a highly talented if still somewhat unconvincing senior panel.

Basically I'm saying it's a poor comparison. Limerick hurling is on its knees. Is Justin McCarthy any good? I've never really rated him to be honest. Then again, the Limerick first-team players aren't that great either. So who is really to blame here? Personally I think McCarthy should do the decent thing and back away from it. He's on a hiding to nothing. He's just being belligerent imo. Whatever about the merits of the players, if I was a Limerick supporter I'd be saying go away Justin, you were never any good now pack your bags and be off with you.

rebel girl 15

aidan24326 wrote: »

As a Galwayman I can certainly identify with how much Galway have underachieved at senior level over the last number of years. However, Galway hurling in gneral is in a healthy state. Consistently good underage teams year after year, one of the best club championships in the country, and currently a highly talented if still somewhat unconvincing senior panel.

Limerick missed the boat badly around 2002 - three All Ireland under 21 titles during those years, but wasn't built on. Galway had fierce problems in the relationship between the CB and the senior management, and despite having one of the fiercest club championships, couldn't reproduce that fierceness on the senior inter county team - whereas now they are more together as a group, and they have built on the 2007 under 21 team.

As regards the current situation, a complete player boycott in Limerick will never happen; there will always be fellas willing to play despite what is going on. Throwing them out of the Munster championship won't do any good either - it would provide a cover for the CB to leave those players go out and represent the county at a lower competition. If they keep getting hammered off the pitch every game, the CB and players may soon get sick of it. Croke Park can't step in really, the CB and the delegates backed Justin a number of times - and they'd have to be asked in, but obviously the majority of the delegates are satisfied with Justin

Justin needs to step aside, but I don't see that happening - even if he did go, I don't think it will heal the rifts, it may be a start but thats all. The CB have a huge amount to answer for! The manner that he dropped the players at the start of it was ridiculous; he showed how inept his man management skills are and I feel sorry for the rifts it is causing in clubs down there at the moment

wonka

Well according to the 'authority' sitting in the stand behind me yesterday - who claimed to know Justin very well - he's mad for the $$$, and as long as thats there, he'll never leave. He needs to step aside urgently....to limit the damage already been done. The only reason i went yesterday was the fact i got a free ticket. For people paying 30 euro for that meaningless game is a pure rip off. Great intermediate match though....

yahoo_moe

Orizio, can't support you on this at all - you're trying to perpetuate the high standard of the Munster championship at the expense of all else.

Forget about whether or not Limerick have better players available, and why they may not be playing - you essentially want to kick them out for not being very good. If Clare and Waterford slide in the next few years, will you reduce the competition to just a Cork v Tipp final every year? :rolleyes:

This is exactly why the provincial championships are a sham nowadays - Galway and Antrim in Leinster while Westmeath, etc. are excluded, an Ulster Championship that can't give anyone bar Antrim a place in the AI series and a Munster Championship that prides itself on being a bastion of tradition just because 3 teams have a chance of winning it (but next week's Christy Ring finalists aren't involved).

rebel girl 15

Spotted this on the RTE website

Two-time All-Ireland winning manager Ger Loughnane thinks Justin McCarthy should quit as Limerick boss following their defeat by Cork in the Munster hurling semi-final.

Cork ran out winners by 2-19 to 0-12 but the Rebels were never in danger and eased up towards the end to record a facile victory.

Limerick are missing as many as 30 players due to a dispute between the 2009 panel and the management team led by former Waterford boss McCarthy.

Loughnane made his comments on The Sunday Game: 'People I've spoken to are disgusted with what has gone on, even though they are not from Limerick. The Munster Championship is sacred to many people and to see only 13,000 at a game between those great rivals Limerick and Cork is terrible.

'Everyone is saying the solution lies with the Limerick County Board but I don't think they are going to solve this. The Limerick County Board is made up of genuine people. They are not devious but they are the kind of fellas you would put in charge of a Junior B team. You would not put them near a senior team.

'They are honest people but they don't have the ability to solve this.

'The solution has to come from the outside and it's the GAA that has to solve this. Only a higher authority can sort this out and that higher authority is Croke Park. Christy Cooney and Páraic Duffy have a huge responsibility to get everyone around a table and to sort this out very quickly.

'There is a big danger that Justin McCarthy will be there for the next two years and that will bring about the total destruction (of Limerick hurling). The Limerick team tried very hard, they are honest guys, but they are way below the standard.

'Number one is Justin has to go. Put Stephen McDonagh, Ciaran Carey, TJ Ryan and great fellas like that in charge of the team and they would revive the spirit of Limerick.'

yahoo_moe

Saw that alright.

An article about what a random poster here, or Ray D'Arcy, or anyone else in the country for that matter, thinks would be about as helpful if you ask me though.

I reckon if Loughnane wasn't an RTE pundit, that article wouldn't be considered news.

Orizio

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Orizio, can't support you on this at all - you're trying to perpetuate the high standard of the Munster championship at the expense of all else.

...except that the well-being of both Limerick GAA and the Munster Championship lies in Limerick putting out a competitive team. I'm for putting both first, unlike the LCB.

deisedude

I thought Limerick acquitted themselves well enough yesterday but lets face it Cork never got out of second gear. In the league teams were pulling up against them which is the ultimate insult. Dublin were the only team to go full out against them and they won by a cricket score and Dublin have gone backwards this year. There arent enough strong hurling counties as it is and Limerick county board seem to be doing their best to kill off hurling in Limerick. What youngster in Limerick would want to play hurling seeing what is going on with the Seniors? The rubgy lads in Limerick must be laughing their asses off at this seeing their biggest competitor shooting itself in the foot like this

limklad

Personally I think Limerick Hurling should be demoted to the Nicky Rackard Cup rather than than insulting the Munster and All Ireland championship. The GAA can demote Limerick for poor performance. Wait a minute Limerick hurling can get their without any help from outsiders with the two year plan. Mayo Hurling could beat us today.

It was a poor display by Cork Hurling, they barely got out of First gear and they did not have to with the poor standard of the Limerick Team that turn up yesterday.

eroo

Calls for Limerick to be booted out of the Championship are ridiculous. If Cork's silly situations had continued and a panel of players no where near ready for inter county were put out, nobody would have called for them to be booted.

This comes down to the fact that the Limerick hurling team of 09 never achieved anything significant at senior level. Yes, the way Justin axed them was wrong.. he should admit this publicly. However, the 09 panel need to come out and admit it's time to let a new panel in. Let members of the 09 panel back simply to guide the younger players, rather than question Justin.

Orizio

eroo wrote: »

Calls for Limerick to be booted out of the Championship are ridiculous. If Cork's silly situations had continued and a panel of players no where near ready for inter county were put out, nobody would have called for them to be booted.

Of course there would have been and justifiably so.

CiaranMT

Orizio wrote: »

Of course there would have been and justifiably so.

No there wouldn't have been. Don't try to convince us you Corkonians are down on our level in terms of self-importance

teednab-el

limklad wrote: »

It was a poor display by Cork Hurling, they barely got out of First gear and they did not have to with the poor standard of the Limerick Team that turn up yesterday.

We did enough and a win is a win. There was no point in Cork hammering Limerick yesterday as it would have done nothing for the players. At the same time its good to keep other teams guessing on how good/bad this Cork team is. They have played both good and bad games. Not peaking too early is a key to success.

yahoo_moe

Orizio wrote: »

...except that the well-being of both Limerick GAA and the Munster Championship lies in Limerick putting out a competitive team.

This is where we differ - Limerick have bigger fish to fry than this year's Munster Championship.

As does the GAA generally in terms of player power issues, etc. Each individual situation that crops up (Cork x3, Clare, Waterford, Limerick, etc.) contributes to what will be considered the precedent next time around - remember, the manager in charge (and by extension, his current squad) has been ratified 3 times by those running Limerick GAA so it's clear what precedent they want to be there.

Zinc1

Could Limerick drop in to the christy ring cup next year...???

As far as i make out the winning of Kerry and Westmeath will be promoted to the Liam McCarty cup .

Hopefully Limerick Can It would be funny

ShamoBuc

Zinc1 wrote: »

Could Limerick drop in to the christy ring cup next year...???

As far as i make out the winning of Kerry and Westmeath will be promoted to the Liam McCarty cup .

Hopefully Limerick Can It would be funny

Why would that be funny?

Zinc1

cos kerry would be their instead of limerick in munster :cool:

would give cork a better game

ShamoBuc

Yeah, still don't think that's funny though. It would be a preferable situation for all Munster teams to be able to compete at a competitive level! That is what makes the Munster Championship different from the others

Zinc1

limerick will be back aslong as they don't get relegated:eek:

Shannonsider

Will a team actually be relegated? Considering what happend between Wexford & Clare last year

adrian522

Theres no relegation this year as far as I know..which is silly but anyway.

grenache

The top brass in the GAA need to step in, and quickly. They seem totally ambiguous to the damage that is being done to hurling in Limerick, they actually don't seem to care. Neither do the LCB by not getting the management and players around a very large table and thrashing it out. Ultimately it comes down to JMC, really don't think he has any option but to go. I supported him originally but him staying put is damaging Limerick hurling in the long term.

Gav Celt

Orizio wrote: »

Completely missing the point - the Munster Hurling Championship is supposed to be the crown jewel in the GAA's crown, and Limerick's performance today makes an absolute mockery of this. Something's are more important then parochial loyalties - the well-being of the GAA is a prime example. If Limerick put out their reserves next year led by Justin McCarthy then they should be kicked out of the Munster Championship for dragging the competition into disrepute - simple as.

ya and limerick were being led by a corkman at the time,we wud be a better team if we were managed by a limerick man like eamonn cregan or richie bennis

Fentdog84

I cant believe a proud man hurling man like Justin McCarthy with all those years of experience in the game is naive enough to put himself through this public humiliation. He should just swallow his pride & walk away because its unfair on Limerick hurling supporters whats going on. The GAA are like the Fianna Fail Government taking absolutely no resposibility to the crisis and pretending its not happening. At the end of the day its the players who have to go out on the pitch and put their bodies on the line and if they are not happy at how they are being coached the manager should go, not them. Instead they are being treated like noisy schoolkids.. players are adults too..