new sxs ... irish made!

harmoniums

As some of you know I collect guns with Irish provenance.
I just picked up a circa WW1 trulock bros shotgun (for a song!)
12 gauge 2 1/2 chambers nice blueing and case hardening.
I'd call it field grade
Tell me if you know anythign about the maker

juice1304

thats a lovely gun you got there.

tac foley

Well they had been around for a good while- THIS is from the 1884 Thoms Dublin trade directory...

Gun Makers.
Calderwood & Son, 14 Earl'street, north
Harris, George, 67 Bride street
Kavanagh,'William, and Son, 12 Dame street
McKenna, John, 5 Crampton quay
Orr, James, Bray
O'Sullivan, Wm. A. 11 Russell place
Parkinson, John, 17 Arran quay
Rigby, John, and Co. 24 Suffolk street
Trulock and Harris, 9 Dawson street
Trulock, Brothers, 13 Parliament'street
Weekos, Charles, and Co. 27 Essex quay
Wilson, James F. 92 Capel street

They also operated from a different address at some time, as retailers for Tranter's Revolvers - here is that address - Trulock Brothers. 11 Essex Bridge, Dublin.

They were still making shotguns in 1920, and seem to have been instrumental in the invetion or development of an interchangeable choke system - the so-called Trulock Choke.

Hope this helps some.

---

jwshooter

trulock and harris in dublin also made shotguns ,i used one of them when i started out S/S of course .

pedroeibar1

I’ve sometimes wondered about the relationship between Trulock Bros, Trulock & Son and Trulock & Harris.
A firm named Trulock & Son were in Dawson Street from the early 1800’s. In 1862 they changed their name to Trulock & Harris and also were the firm that bought Rigby’s business when he moved to London in the 1860’s.
The current Trulock & Harris in the UK has nothing to do with the old firm, they just use the name.
Anybody know the connection (s)?
Tnx
P.

murphyc106

harmoniums wrote: »

As some of you know I collect guns with Irish provenance.
I just picked up a circa WW1 trulock bros shotgun (for a song!)
12 gauge 2 1/2 chambers nice blueing and case hardening.
I'd call it field grade
Tell me if you know anythign about the maker

William Trulock reportedly established his firm in 1814 in Britain Street, Dublin, Ireland. He may have previously lived and worked in London, but this has not been confirmed. An address at 11 Essex Bridge has been recorded but dates are unknown.
At some time, probably around 1820, the firm became Trulock & Son, and they moved to 9 Dawson Street.
In about 1840 William Trulock's son-in-law became a partner in the firm, and it was re-named Trulock & Harriss. It is almost certain that William Trulock had died and that his son of the same name and ? Harris inherited the business.
In about 1855 Samuel, Richard and William Trulock (sons of William (II)?) took over the firm and renamed it Trulock Brothers.
In 1863 the brothers together with John Gibson patented a drop-down barrel action.
In 1867 the brothers patented their "Lockfast" action (No. 1904) (see Dougall who also patented a "Lockfast" action).
From about 1875 to 1885 John Forrestall Smythe was Manager of the firm, he left to buy the business of Francis Brebner in Darlington.
In 1892 the firm took over the Dublin business of J Rigby & Son, soon after this date they moved to 13 Parliament Square, Dublin.
By 1900 it appears some of the the Trulock brothers had left or died, and Harriss' son and ? Richardson had become a partners, the name of the firm becoming Trulock, Harriss & Richardson.
In 1909 a shop was opened in London at 22 Bury Street, St James's. In 1911 the firm became a limited liability company, moving to 4 Pickering Place, St James's Street. In 1916 the company was put into liquidation and the business was taken over by a new firm named H Trulock Harriss. It was not recorded as trading after 1918.
Other InfoThe firm sold cartridges under their own name and under the names "Tru-iss" around the time they were located at Pickering Place.

Double Barrel

Not 100% sure how all this connects up but I have a feeling it does, there are some leaps of faith :

Thomas Truelock 1720 -1798, October 25
Gunmaker and Sherriff to Lord Mayor of Dublin, Henry Hart (1774/5)
Alderman of Dublin (Elected August 6, 1792)


Thomas Truelock 1741 1830, Gunmaker
College Green, Dublin (1762-71), Old Church Street, Dublin (1787), Barrack Street, Dublin (1789-1821), 22 Suffolk Street, Dublin (1796), Dame Street, Dublin

Willliam Trulock's gunmaking business was called 'William Truelock & Son', Upon his death, it was taken over by his wife Elizabeth. After several years the name was changed and the business became known as 'E. Truelock and Son' (1843),
William left the sum of £1,384 to his wife, Elizabeth. George Trulock took over the business in 1853.

Joseph Harriss married Elizabeth Trulock in 1846 and went into partnership with his brother-in-law George Trulock. The business, formerly known as 'E. Trulock and Son', became henceforth known as 'Trulock and Harriss'.
Then, in 1898, Richardson, a gunmaker from Cork joined and the company became known as 'Trulock Harriss and Richardson'.

Double Barrel

harmoniums,

Nice gun, looks to be in great condition, do you shoot it ?. Any chance of a few photos of the barrel flats and the water table.

Double Barrel

A very nice restocked true sidelock ejector for sale.



http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/090403131659001

Grizzly 45

Wonder where it's "sister" [no2] is??:(

rowa

nice gun harmoniums , i wonder though was it actually made in dublin or is it a birmingham made gun sold unfinished to a company like trulock for final finish, name engraving etc, does it have any proof marks ? was there even an irish proof house operational in ireland back then ?
the history of irish gunmaking doesn't seem to be well recorded at all , for instance i never knew stephen grant the london maker served his apprenticeship with kavanagh of dublin before going to london to work with boss and co.

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/100619111229000
http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/100628145320009

Double Barrel

No proof house in Ireland, the Birmingham gun quarter & London had proof houses.
It was a common practice for a gunmaker to source actions, locks barrels etc. and do the fit, finish and stocking in house. They all did it to some degree except maybe Boss.

The Gun Trade

It should be understood by any student of the gun trade, mid 19th century to mid 20th century, that the trade was not organized quite as the public thought.

With the exception of one or two of the most prestigious gun makers, guns were generally not 'made' by their vendors but by a host of small, highly skilled, anonymous gunmakers based principally in London and Birmingham. These largely unsung tradesmen could produce everything from a striker to a complete gun and supply the parts in any state from a rough forging to a fully finished gun complete with the vendors name and serial number. Furthermore, although some of the gun trade did specialize in a style or quality of gun, many could produce a product to any level of finish.

The secret behind this fantastic level of flexibility was that most individuals specialised in one skill or another, be it barrel work, actioning, stocking, engraving or whatever, and the gun passed from tradesman to tradesman having the various procedures undertaken by a whole series of experts.

The result was that virtually any gun in any bore, style and quality could be ordered within the trade. http://www.jblanchdatabase.co.uk/technical.htm

rowa

does anyone know anything about gunmaker george hinton of taunton ? i recently bought a boxlock by him , one of a pair .

Double Barrel

Rowa

Hinton was a retailer and Charles Hellis absorbed Hinton. http://www.hellis.com/history.html

rowa

yes i seen that double barrel , though hinton was a maker in his own right too , the name s.wright and sons is often seen in connection with hellis , hinton and churchills , as far as i can find out he and his business were still going in the 70's long after a lot of the other makers had folded , he operated in 98 bath street birmingham , which is slap bang in the heart of the gun quarter. i think he made the guns for a lot of other makers,

Double Barrel

Rowa
Wright is one of many unsung "outworkers" for the lads with connections and fancy addresses.
Douglas Tate who is a gunsmith wrote a very interesting book on the Brummie gun trade: Birmingham Gun Makers: A Complete Overview of the Birmingham Gun Trade and its History as Well as a Listing of Birmingham Gun Makers. I think it is out of print but check the library. Or :http://www.amazon.co.uk/Birmingham-Gunmakers-Douglas-Tate/dp/toc/1571570551

It wasn't me!

rowa wrote: »

does anyone know anything about gunmaker george hinton of taunton ? i recently bought a boxlock by him , one of a pair .

You buy that off Neil McVeigh by any chance? If so, I was very tempted by that gun myself.

finnmccool37

I'm curious - do you still own this gun? I have an opportunity to purchase one here in the States and I was looking for any information I can on this manufacturer. I am especially interested in when they changed over to smokeless production and when the serial numbers started.

Thanks.

Double Barrel

Finn,
Smokeless shotgun cartridges 1890's onward.
Serial#
John Twigg, 1755, not sure of serialisation.
Durs Egg, 1772
Joseph Manton 1781.
John Dickson 1812, J Purdey, 1814, John Rigby 1822, C Lancaster, 1826 ......
To the best of my limited knowledge they all used serial No.'s and kept record books.... except maybe Twigg.

Zenner

Double Barrel wrote: »

No proof house in Ireland, the Birmingham gun quarter & London had proof houses.
It was a common practice for a gunmaker to source actions, locks barrels etc. and do the fit, finish and stocking in house. They all did it to some degree except maybe Boss.

The Gun Trade

It should be understood by any student of the gun trade, mid 19th century to mid 20th century, that the trade was not organized quite as the public thought.

With the exception of one or two of the most prestigious gun makers, guns were generally not 'made' by their vendors but by a host of small, highly skilled, anonymous gunmakers based principally in London and Birmingham. These largely unsung tradesmen could produce everything from a striker to a complete gun and supply the parts in any state from a rough forging to a fully finished gun complete with the vendors name and serial number. Furthermore, although some of the gun trade did specialize in a style or quality of gun, many could produce a product to any level of finish.

The secret behind this fantastic level of flexibility was that most individuals specialised in one skill or another, be it barrel work, actioning, stocking, engraving or whatever, and the gun passed from tradesman to tradesman having the various procedures undertaken by a whole series of experts.

The result was that virtually any gun in any bore, style and quality could be ordered within the trade. http://www.jblanchdatabase.co.uk/technical.htm

Hi, I was reading your posts and I am finding your discussions very interesting. Its great to see that there are people who care about history and quality of workmanship in the gun trade. I was reading along your posts to see that there was a discussion/question form one of the posts on proofing houses in Dublin. Well, I have some information that might be of interest. There was one back around in the 70’s. It was based in Glasnevin at then Institute of Industrial Research and Standards (IIRS) It was set up for the purpose of new gun that was to make its way to the market. The gun in question (not sure if I got the spelling right) was called a "Finnian" It was an O/U. Not sure if this will add to any of the information out there but it might be of interest to someone. I got this information from a gunsmith that was based in Webley & Scott and who has a long history in the trade here in Ireland.

Double Barrel

Nice bit of information Zenner every bit helps.

"The Fenian by P.V. Kavanagh & Sons, 12 bore shotgun with unique self opening action."
Thanks to Mike Shepherd Guns:



W Kavanagh & Son designed a vertical barrelled (O/U) gun but they do not appear to have patented it, it is thought one or two were made for them by the Fenian Gun Co. One example bears the name P V Kavanagh & Sons

The Fenian Gun Company of Birr in Co. Offaly ceased trading in 1970. It was "purportedly owned by a British Agent " according to a debate that came up in the Irish Parliament (Dáil Éireann - Volume 269 - 21 November, 1973)
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0269/D.0269.197311210031.html

harmoniums

Double Barrel wrote: »

Nice bit of information Zenner every bit helps.

"The Fenian by P.V. Kavanagh & Sons, 12 bore shotgun with unique self opening action."
Thanks to Mike Shepherd Guns:



W Kavanagh & Son designed a vertical barrelled (O/U) gun but they do not appear to have patented it, it is thought one or two were made for them by the Fenian Gun Co. One example bears the name P V Kavanagh & Sons

The Fenian Gun Company of Birr in Co. Offaly ceased trading in 1970. It was "purportedly owned by a British Agent " according to a debate that came up in the Irish Parliament (Dáil Éireann - Volume 269 - 21 November, 1973)
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0269/D.0269.197311210031.html

I've called Mick a few times about that shotgun to see if he could sell it to me.
Last I heard the cops still had all his firearms, even though he had a court order to have them returned

Zenner

harmoniums wrote: »

I've called Mick a few times about that shotgun to see if he could sell it to me.
Last I heard the cops still had all his firearms, even though he had a court order to have them returned

That’s great information to know and a good picture. I wonder if it has an Irish Proofing mark on it ? I did also hear the barrels came in from a foundry in Belgium and there was many left in the proofing house when things folded. I must look further into the rest of the story on this as its very interesting. Its strange that he has not got them back being he has an order in place. It would be a shame to see it just sitting in a safe. I know there are many more classic guns sitting in the park that should be released.

full throttle

I have a Fenian 12 bore o/u the same as the one pictured... any queries???

FISMA

There's just something about a SxS with case coloring that makes me

Have you sussed out any locations for the museum?

Beautiful firearm!

Also, Harmoniums, do you collect any Irish Militaria? I have seen an ad for an Irish Free State Uniform for around $900. This price appears high as the uniform has been for sale for over a year since I first noticed. What does something like this go for?

Here's another Fenian for ya - Snider 1861!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=244499911

full throttle wrote: »

I have a Fenian 12 bore o/u the same as the one pictured... any queries???

Yes, where can they be gotten, how much, what's the population of these, and are they marked Fenian?

Grizzly 45

Double Barrel wrote: »

W Kavanagh & Son designed a vertical barrelled (O/U) gun but they do not appear to have patented it, it is thought one or two were made for them by the Fenian Gun Co. One example bears the name P V Kavanagh & Sons

Apprently quite a few were made and exported via the Uk[?] to Canada.
Also it has a design fault,the action bars are not properly heat treated and tend to bend after awhile.
Edit
Been asked where this info came from.
The UK Shooting Times mag runs a colum on 2nd hand guns that you might pick up.In 2010[cant remember which month] they had an article on the Fenian shotgun,and that point stuck in my mind of the article.

harmoniums

FISMA wrote: »

Yes, where can they be gotten, how much, what's the population of these, and are they marked Fenian?

I'm working on importing 2 right now, an 16 and 12 gauge

full throttle

This is my Fenian o/u shotgun
IMAG0011.jpg

this is the unique opening system
IMAG0012.jpg


IMAG0013.jpg


I MAY CONSIDER SELLING