2010/2011 Domestic Build Cork

Bowery Bum

Hi All
I'm a newbie today (long time viewer, first time poster!)

We've just agreed to buy a site (subject to planning) a few miles from Cork city - hence I hope to use the significant experience you all have & hopefully share back my learnings with you on the way!!

We've just started looking for an Architect. I've been told that their prices have come down a lot. How much can I expect to pay for an "all in" service - pre-planning, planning, detailed drawings, tender, build & sign off. I've been given various numbers from friends ranging from €15-€25k + VAT for their fee.
I've also been told that the large firms are now competing against the smaller practices for domestic projects as the larger jobs have dried up. Is it better to use the services of a large practice (i.e. do the best people work in the bigger practices, do they have access to better/cheaper materials / contractors etc) if you can get them at a competitive price or does the smaller practive tend to have more experience of the domestic project.

I'll try to keep this going through the project if there is any interest and if I still have the will to live !!:eek:
Thanks

rayjdav

Bowery Bum wrote: »

Is it better to use the services of a large practice (i.e. do the best people work in the bigger practices, do they have access to better/cheaper materials / contractors etc) if you can get them at a competitive price or does the smaller practive tend to have more experience of the domestic project.

This is definitely NOT true. A lot of the good architects are out on their own and have been successful. A lot of times you will find also that the smaller practice can and will afford you more time on your project, especially now.

Your quotes will also obviously depend on what you are building and to what final spec. A lot of factors to be considered in the quote. Compare like for like though..

Bowery Bum

Thanks RayjDav

I'm hoping to build 3500 sq ft, traditional design (2 storey with some attic conversion) with contemporary features, high energy efficiency and very good fit out inside.

Any ideas of likely fees ?
Thanks again

ECO_Mental

Hi,

Just sent in my planning application 3 weeks ago in cork and used one of the large arch firms there and got a very competitive price and I know about two years ago they wouldn't have entertained me and if they did they would have charged me an arm and a leg.

my fees were €4k +VAT to get me to planning although I would say you could get cheaper. But I was very happy with what I got for that, 3d models (internal and external), Photoshop pictures with my house inserted and the planning drawings.

Site survey was additional to this but I had that done already for another reason but I would say you could get that done €500-700 all depends on the size of your site. Oh don't forget the new EPA regs for septic tanks that can cost you another €500-700 hundred easily.

Best of luck

Poor Uncle Tom

Pre-planning and planning application, €3,000 - €4,000,
detailed drawings, tender and contracts €2,000 - €3,500,
supervise build & sign off stages and final certification €3,000 - €4,000.

I would say the above would be good value.

Bowery Bum

Thanks everyone

Got first quote this evening from a reputable firm. €15K + Vat for an all in service which included planning alterations etc. Not bad - I wonder how much this would have cost during the boom time!

ECO - what size house are you building & do you have a budget? I am hoping to spend 450k all in (fully kitted out!) for the 3,500 sq ft. This budget would be exclusive of arch fees, council fees etc and the site is serviced for everything. It would include 3000 sq ft over 2 floors & 500sq ft in the attic (making the cost per sq ft cheaper I hope), high spec windows, HRV, Solar, massive insulation, high spec flooring, bathrooms, kitchen etc. Some people have told me that this should be achievable (€150sq ft) but one or two architects have told me the number is closer to €200 - I just can't believe that in this market??

Leadership

For a 2500 sqft house in Cork we looking like we are comming in at €120 per sqft with 2nd fix to go. The build is high spec and sounds similar to yours but includes all fees. This may go up as not all invoices are in but only a max of 10k I estimate.

This includes attic conversion (plastered, velux balcony), a €30k kitchen, basic landscaping (level site, prep for patio area, and 100 meters drainage pipes layed in garden), 109 sq meters of marble flooring, solar, high spec stoves (one with boiler) and 500l thermal store, solar, concrete floors & stairs), solid wood floors (walnut & beech) , painted walls & cellings, quality bath room fittings (including €3k bath), ICF build, oak doors, scandinavian high efficiency windows, high spec electrical (hdmi/scart in walls, wired for suround sound in two rooms, 5 zone multi room audio, cellings wired for projector, stairs lined with recess lighting, recessed lighting around the large balcony area & €400 of LED GU10's for recessed lighting)

Most of the fittings will be sourced in Ireland with only the windows comming from Norway. We didnt use an architect to supervise the build , would have saved approx 4 months build time if we had but saved €20k overall.

We bought most of the fittings from one shop so got a great deal from them so all our floors, kitchen fittings, kitchen utilities and bathroom goods came from one source.

Bowery Bum

Leadership

Sounds very like the type of spec that we would be looking for. A few questions:
1. From reading your post it looks like the attic conversion is not included in the 2500sq ft - so you have got extra floor space that brings down your cost per sq ft ?
2. Are you close to the city or more rural - your fees seem very cheap. I have factored €15k+Vat for Arch, €20k for council fees and then the usual for solicitors etc.
3. Did you look at the HRV systems & why did you decide against ?
4. Did you get a contractor / self build or a combination? We're looking at getting a contractor to get to second fix but to manage kitchen/ utility/ bathrooms/ floors/ painting ourselves. I was assuming I would be getting the entertainment systems, cabling etc all done separately as the builders may not be strong in this area?
5. Could you PM me your "one stop shop" for the kitchen, floors, tiling etc & ideas of quality & cost of the items (tell me to fe*k off if I'm being too nosy!!)

Thanks a mill

Leadership

1. Attic conversion is outside the 2500sqft so would bring the cost down, its approx 400 sqft

2. Build is close to Fermoy and semi-rural being 200 meters from a village. Council fees were €14k, solictor €2k, Engineer €3k (includes perculation test), Arcitect (drawings only) €1k

3. We have HRV, sorry forgot to mention which cost €3k for parts and €1k for fitting. Decided against any fancy heating source like geo or wood pellet as the cost is silly. Using a high efficientcy oil condencing boiler but most heat will come from stove and Thermal store as we have a good supply of wood. Didnt go for underfloor heating as from talking to 12 new build owners who installed it say its cost them a fortune to heat.

4. We use a building contractor (great!) to get us to 2nd fix builders finish (high spec), they will fit all bathware. They supplied basic electrics and we negociated with electrician for extras. Kitchen/floors is our respocibility.

5. PM on the way for supplier

Bowery Bum

Thanks Leadership for this and the PM

Bings your cost per sq ft down to ~ €103 if my maths are right - fantastic for such a great finish !!

Happy to hear your thoughts regarding Geo-thermal - likewise I have not been able to get anybody (who has Geo-thermal) to recommend them. The HRV sounds like a no brainer to me - but surprised to hear about the underfloor heating!! How does the HRV work out in practice - is it noisy (noise travelling on the ducts), did you get the house pretty airtight ?

Anyone else got some experience on the underfloor (I had been planning to put it into the living areas.

Council charges are really expensive - my site is fully serviced, roads and paths in etc & they will still be charging approx €20k - because the site is within a certain distance of the Cork Midleton train line !!!

Leadership

The HRV was only switched on yesterday and its silent, only time you can hear it is when its on boost and even then its quiet. We do have a system where the inlet and outlet both go through a baffled manifold and each pipe is routed through this manifold. This does reduce the sound as well as stops sound travelling from room as with some systems you can hear sounds in other rooms that travel through the ducting.

Point to note for U/F heating the highest costs we found out came when the house is heated by a combination of ufh and rads for both Geo and oil.

JuniorB

Bowery
Do a search here for underfloor heating and you'll get some threads with all the pros and cons - cost is not the only factor i.e. a lot of modern kitchens have big glazing sections so there is no suitable location for rads.

Best of luck with the build - that's some budget you've got!

ECO_Mental

My house is around 2600 sqr ft but thats including the garage. Its connected to the house and will end up as a large storage room. I didn't see the need in going any bigger only two kids so that should be plenty

I am working to the magic €100/sqr ft so around the €260k give or take I hope to build it for, I think thats achievable in this market Although I do have a couple of things that might push it higher namely copper roofing and a big curved wall. But its swings and roundabouts as the shape is straight forward I have no dormer windows etc. I have gotten back prices budget prices already and it working out so far. I intend to project manage it myself and let it out in packages.

Keep on trucking
EM

Bowery Bum

I've only got two kids as well so maybe we're mad with the size we're building !!

We've now got a few more quotes from architects - all within a pretty comparable prce range. It's hard to know what to base your decison on. At the end of the day with architects there must be an element of gut feel involved...

ECO_Mental

I talked to five Archs at the time I only went to guys with web sites so I could see their work to get an idea what they were about and what work they have done. I then called them up and meet them or talked to them over the phone you soon get an idea what they are about and it will all come down to a gut feeling and are they on the same wavelength as you.

With my arch I saw a house on their web site that I really liked and luckily enough it was his house so I knew he was thinking what I was thinking. So it was a no brainer