Answered Required

NoseyMike2010

Does anyone have answers for the allatched papers?

mazthespark

not written out im afraid just did phase 6 at christmas tho so it would still be fairly fresh. dont u have any notes on it?

NoseyMike2010

I have no notes ..... I have a degree in Engineering but am seriously thinking of becoming an electrician. I am trying to gather some of the notes/ exams and having a look through them over the summer .... since I have loads of time!!!!!! Any help would be awesome.

mazthespark

well the whitfield books would be a good start to give u an idea majority of course is based on them neway. and you can buy them most places

NoseyMike2010

I'll start looking into that .... Do you still have a copy of your notes? Is it difficult to get copies of the differerent Phase material??

mazthespark

i do ya but generally there given out by lecturers to students so a lot of it is hand written etc.

NoseyMike2010

Any chance of getting it scanned? Please.

mazthespark

theres 4 lever arch folders and thats only half of it ha! where abouts are u in the country?

NoseyMike2010

Yikkeeeeeeees Thats alot. If you had a big office printer it you could feed it into it! If not guess it would take ages.

I'm based around the Kerry area. Is there much information about PLC, Control and automation systems?

mazthespark

ah rite based in galway myself. theres very little really the course is very outdated in my view. if thats the side ur interested in dit run courses in that side of thing and some colleges do a automation type course also think sligo it do one called mechatronics.

NoseyMike2010

Don't think i could face going back to Uni again .... mainly because I have no money. Was going to try learn it myself and see where it takes me!!

mazthespark

well some of them are distance learning so u work in ur own time and just attend the odd lecture or practical. was looking into them myself im recently qualified but have a huge interest in that area of it

NoseyMike2010

Can I ask .... Are you a qualified Electrician or have you been to Uni? If I were to do the electrician apprenticeship how long would it take ( i have a degree!)

mazthespark

qualified spark. took 4 years. i dont think a uni degree helps you but i know being qualified allows you to skip first year in elec. engineering and similar courses

NoseyMike2010

4 years ... ummm. But at least I'd have work. I must look into it.

Is any of your course material available online to download???

2011

1st PDF

Q 1:

Truth table:

S1 S2 S3 K1
0 0 0 0
0 0 1 0
0 1 0 0
0 1 1 0
1 0 0 0
1 0 1 0
1 1 0 0
1 1 1 1

AND logic: In other words you only get an output if S1 AND S2 AND S3 are closed.



Q 2:
Pressure Transmitter
Temperature Transmitter
Switch

Q 3:

If a device was connected to the first input of a PLC the terminal would be marked "X0". When refering to this in the PLC code it would be identified as "X0" in the code. That way the PLC "knows" which input the programmer wants to refer to.

The first output would be "Y0". The same applies as above.

The PLC will scan all of the I/O to establish their status, solve the logic of the programme and the switch the outputs accordingly.

mazthespark

u need work as an electrician for the four years too its done in phases. not really available online but check out fas.ie for details on apprenticeships.

NoseyMike2010

Thanks 2011 :D:D Keep up the good work.

I will study your answers tomorrow when I am fresher!!!

NoseyMike2010

Mazethespark ..... I will look into this. If you do manage to find a scanner I would be grateful for a copy of some of the notes to get me up and running.

:):):)

glic83

NoseyMike2010 most sparks get qualified and then if they want to get more qualifications,they decide to go back and get a degree or do night courses in certain aera's ie plc's or testing etc etc,why are you thinking of going back to do a trade,what was your degree in electrial engineering or electronic engineering?surely there is area's of your course that you enjoyed more than others,would it not be better to be looking into developing your skills in these area's

2011

Glic83, what I am seeing is the opposite. For example Engineers that have a degree in mechanical engineering working in automation. This seems to happen quite a bit nowadays either because engineers find a particular area more interesting or because there is employment in one field and not in another. Within a some departments such as process there is quite a bit of overlap and cross training. That is what I am seeing anyway.

pavb2

I agree with above post it is unusual but not unheard of to get a degree and then do an apprenticeship.

My advice would be to specialise in PLC's,Robotics,energy management or motor control as specialists in these areas (pre boom) were more sought after than say domestic electricians especially in process control.

I admired electricians who could fault find and programme PLC's in fairness their role was nearer software engineer than electrician.

Even now there are still a lot of factories/plants with fairly hi tech equipment that needs looking after.

2011

Pavb2,

to be honest I misunderstood what noseymike was saying. I thought he was talking of changing from working in 1 type of engineering role to another. I agree 100% with your post.

I think being a qualified electrician is great and will always stand to you. But if I was an engineer and that is not a qualified electrician I would not be interested in serving my time. Especially now when so many experienced electricians are out of work, what is the point? Serving your time is not easy, I should know!

If you are going to go back to education I would suggest that you do a masters or study a different aspect of engineering in a area that there is employment in that interests you. That is my view anyway, each to their own I guess.

NoseyMike2010

Pav2b/2011,
Its the hands on experience that I am lacking. Thats why i was thinking of training to become an electrician.

I would like to get into PLC's and automation side of things. I was hoping to get a copy of the these from an electrician but no look so far. Can anyone answer the questions I have attached and send them to me.

glic83

to be honest the plc stuff is only in phase 6 and its only really a basic introduction into it,i would be looking doing a plc course in 1 of the I.T's and go from there

NoseyMike2010

Can I get a copy of Phase 6 off you guys. The PLC section is all I need. I really want to learn the logic side of things and work from there.

2011

I would agree with glic, the PLC stuff covered during an apprenticship is only really designed to give an appreciation of PLC, nothing more.

NoseyMike2010

Oh .. Ok. Thanks 2011. Do you recommend any books I can start off on. Remember your talking to a person with very little knowlegde of PLC's, Cabinet design, Ladder logic ... etc etc. I got a copy of the 2 attachments from another guy .... not sure if they are Uni tests or from some other course. i would like to be able to do these.

mazthespark

i also have an interest in the whole automation side and before i even went to Phase 6 i looked over a few things to get me going. found this site very useful.
http://www.plcs.net/

theres a tutorial on the basics on it

the main thing we used do in fas was convert schematic diagrams into ladder diagrams all plc and automation was very basic indeed so if that was ur main reason for doin apprenticeship id pass. try get in with a instrumentation crowd maybe mite be best for practical automation experience

m.j.w

Hi, dont know if this is any help but you can get all the notes from phase 2 of the apprenticeship from here

http://www.ecollege.ie/site/liu/html/Electricalnotes.html

Ive just finsihed phase 2 in fas, obviously the lecturer will give you other notes to take down but these are the notes that they hand out to you. Everything is there. Hope this helps

pieface_ie

Q6=
Branch 2 20ohms/200v = 10amps, Total Impedence=20ohms, phase angle = -90degrees


Branch 1 Total impedence= square root of 16squared + 12squared =20ohms,
20ohms/200v= 10amps, power factor = Resistor/Total Impedence= 16r/20ohms= 0.8, phase angle= cosign teta 0.8= +36.86degrees

Drawing your diagram with above figures.

Q7= #1 meter - The current coil is placed in series with phase R and the voltage terminal is connected to phase S
#2 meter - The current coil is placed in series with phase T and again the voltage terminal is connect to phase S

Wattmeter #1+#2 = Total power.


If you need any help you dont be afraid to drop me an email,you have my address.

Cheers

2011

Pav2b/2011,
Its the hands on experience that I am lacking. Thats why i was thinking of training to become an electrician.

I would like to get into PLC's and automation side of things. I was hoping to get a copy of the these from an electrician but no look so far. Can anyone answer the questions I have attached and send them to me.

Normally the individual that builds the PLC panel is not the same person that programme it. On projects that I have been involved in recently one company builds the PLC cabinets, another company (the E & I contracor) installs them and connects the field wiring and another company programmes them.

I think you need to decide which of those three areas you would like the best. I would think the latter. Each of the three contractors has to have some understanding of the other two to make it all work.

Keep us posted as to how you get on. It should be interesting. Good luck with whatever you decide.

NoseyMike2010

I am going to start learning ladder logic and try implementing this to real systems. I must try and get some sort of simulator on the net to practice on.

I would like to know how to build the cabinets and descide what would go into them. This would be my 2nd option.

I will keep you guys posted .... and I am sure I will have loads of questions to be asking. Thanks for all the help though. Much appreciated.

Inbox

Hi,I'm having trouble answering the truth table Q1 on paper 3 that is in the opening post.

Can anyone explain the theory of it,Cant figure it out even looking through my phase 6 notes

pieface_ie

S1 & S2 are both connected to a AND gate meaning both switches must be true or “on” to get a output which I have called C1 in the drawing.


S3 is connected to a OR gate meaning that it will accept the output from the AND gate or it will accept the input from switch S3. Basically meaning there’s two options available and it will accept either of them to power K1.


Hope this makes sense.

Stoner

NoseyMike2010, what did you do the degree in?

Inbox

Cheers thanks for your help,think I've got it under control now.

pavb2

Had a brief exposure to plc's many years ago Siemans,AllenBradley,Mitsubishi but the most simple one I found for training was the GE fanuc, the logic seemed to replicate more easily switches and components in the field and was more drag drop programming rather than entering lines of text.

Hope this helps

NoseyMike2010

Stoner wrote: »

NoseyMike2010, what did you do the degree in?

Electronic Engineering