Are Germans Open?

Fuinseog

I lived in dublin for a while and went along to a german speaking group at the illac centre in the library, but people seemed stand offish.

a while later i went along to the austrian irish society and found out what it is meant by a geschlossene Gesellschaft.

are germans (german speakers) more distant than the Irish and if so warum?

John C

When one first meets Germans they tend to be reserved and distant. It takes them much longer than Irish people to become familiar.
Stand offish or aloof is not the best description.

This is the initial experience of many Irish and British people here in Germany. However after some time a new person is no longer a stranger. He goes to local pubs, joins clubs and the ice is broken.

Your situation is not equivalent. You are in Dublin hoping to learn German with a native speaker.
There are many Germans living in Ireland. For example in Clonakilty a German girl lives in a townland of 80 persons.

You could try networking. Ask neighbours, relatives, people in clubs do they know any Germans. You know more people than you think; your doctor, dentist, solicitor, bank staff, club mates, siblings and parents can network on your behalf. Chances are that they know a German person who'd like company, get to know Dublin.
But you have to ask them. "Do you know any German person?"

After some time Germans talk familiarly. It does take longer than in Ireland.

Imposter

It depends - If you are going there as someone who wants to improve their german then I can understand their standoffishness. People are probably at these gatherings to catch up with people from their home country and to speak the language but having people there with non-fluent german makes it seem like a free language school

I've often seen the same here in Austria and sometimes I am also a bit standoffish when it comes to a stranger wanting to interrupt my evening out with friends in order to speak to a native speaker for a few hours.

I'm sure there are probably other groups that exist exactly for the purpose of those wanting to learn german and those native speakers that are ok with meeting with such a group - it might even be the same people

Fuinseog

Imposter wrote: »

It depends - If you are going there as someone who wants to improve their german then I can understand their standoffishness. People are probably at these gatherings to catch up with people from their home country and to speak the language but having people there with non-fluent german makes it seem like a free language school

I've often seen the same here in Austria and sometimes I am also a bit standoffish when it comes to a stranger wanting to interrupt my evening out with friends in order to speak to a native speaker for a few hours.

I'm sure there are probably other groups that exist exactly for the purpose of those wanting to learn german and those native speakers that are ok with meeting with such a group - it might even be the same people

I supose its the same if we are in a pub and if a German or austrain is in the group we have to speak slower, clearer and use less slang and explain everything.

EGAR

I would be very slow before I'd call someone a friend. I have lots of acquaintances but very few friends but the few I have I can rely on no matter what. That is more important to me than having alot of *friends* and no one to rely on .

I am friendly to everyone but I am not over-enthusiastic if someone would try to carry on a conversation with me just for the sake of talking.

I am not the right person to talk to if you want to talk about the weather, the price of hay and silage or what your neighbours have been up to .

I can't speak for other Germans, of course.

Frisian

I can't speak for other Germans, of course.

And you most certainly don't. Unfortunately.

Fuinseog

EGAR wrote: »

I would be very slow before I'd call someone a friend. I have lots of acquaintances but very few friends but the few I have I can rely on no matter what. That is more important to me than having alot of *friends* and no one to rely on .

I am friendly to everyone but I am not over-enthusiastic if someone would try to carry on a conversation with me just for the sake of talking.

I am not the right person to talk to if you want to talk about the weather, the price of hay and silage or what your neighbours have been up to .

I can't speak for other Germans, of course.

true, the irish are superficial by comparison, and with Germans zou generally know where you stand, but something I miss about Ireland when I am abroad is going in to a pub in Germany or Austria and not being able to talk to people because they are in their own groups.

prinz

Yes and no. It has it's benefits as EGAR noted, you'll quickly know who your real friends are as opposed to here in Ireland, where it's not so easy to tell.

On the other hand it can be difficult to meet new Germans sometimes. I remember watching the Euro 2008 final wearing my German jersey in a pub in Dublin, was the only person in there supporting Germany (or so I thought) anyhow this girl approaches me and asks me if I'd like to sit with her bf as he was German (she was Danish) I asked her why he didn't ask me himself and she said he didn't think it 'proper' to intrude on someone else or to be so forward with a stranger...., like I cared . At least there was two of us shouting on die Nationalmannschaft.:D If that was two Irish people in a German/wherever pub abroad they would be chatting to each other in no time, especially if watching Ireland/wearing jerseys etc. It was odd to think that if I had been German that two Germans would sit 15 feet from each other in a pub in Dublin during the final of a major sporting tournament and not even acknowledge each other due to being 'reserved'.

Although when she found out I wasn't German she told me not to bother. I think she wasn't too impressed with the bf.

EGAR

Fuinseog wrote: »

when I am abroad is going in to a pub in Germany or Austria and not being able to talk to people because they are in their own groups.

Lol, I had to smile at that, Fuinseog. I live near a small village in the West of Ireland and the very first time I went into one of the pubs in the village people were pointing at me. No one spoke to me all night, no one returned my greetings and I felt right out of place.

In hindsight it was like something out of *Father Ted* but it really upset me at the time. It was 15 years ago... they have stopped pointing at me in the meantime .

peasant

At the end of the day it boils down to "Sie" and "Du".

Von Kindesbeinen an wird dir beigebracht dass du hoeflich zu sein hast. Fremde werden mit "Sie" und mit Distanz angesprochen ...oder am besten gleich gar nicht

Ein Gespraech mit Leuten mit denen man per Sie ist laeuft immer eine Ecke formeller und steifer ab als wenn man per Du mit den gleichen Leuten verkehrt. Das ist ein Verhaltensmuster das ziemlich tief sitzt.

Kommen nun wildfremde Leute auf einen zugestuerzt und sprechen einen gleich mit Vornamen und "du" (or rather "you") an, so ist der Durchschnittsdeutsche erstmal perplex und eher reserviert.
Ein Gespraech auf deutsch mit "Du" will so leicht nicht von der Zunge und auch auf englisch ist der vertrauliche Vorname (anstatt Mr.) beinahe einen Schritt zu weit.

Andererseits, ist das "Du" erstmal etabliert, so fallen im deutschen die ganzen Hoeflichkeitsfloskeln weg und man redekt direkt auf den Punkt und zur Sache ...schliesslich ist man per Du und somit unter Freunden.

Und da zeigen sich dannn auf einmal die englischsprachigen Gegenueber brueskiert ...die Deutschen sind ja "so rude" und gar nicht "polite"


Well ...make up yer feckin' minds, will ya?

Fuinseog

EGAR wrote: »

Lol, I had to smile at that, Fuinseog. I live near a small village in the West of Ireland and the very first time I went into one of the pubs in the village people were pointing at me. No one spoke to me all night, no one returned my greetings and I felt right out of place.

In hindsight it was like something out of *Father Ted* but it really upset me at the time. It was 15 years ago... they have stopped pointing at me in the meantime .

a small village is a small village no matter where you are. there are villages in ireland where they do not talk to strangers, i.e anyone not born and raised in the village, whether they be Irish or Johnny foreigner.in the city they generally do talk to you, although in certain pubs the converstation stops once you open the door.

Fuinseog

peasant wrote: »

At the end of the day it boils down to "Sie" and "Du".

Von Kindesbeinen an wird dir beigebracht dass du hoeflich zu sein hast. Fremde werden mit "Sie" und mit Distanz angesprochen ...oder am besten gleich gar nicht

Ein Gespraech mit Leuten mit denen man per Sie ist laeuft immer eine Ecke formeller und steifer ab als wenn man per Du mit den gleichen Leuten verkehrt. Das ist ein Verhaltensmuster das ziemlich tief sitzt.

Kommen nun wildfremde Leute auf einen zugestuerzt und sprechen einen gleich mit Vornamen und "du" (or rather "you") an, so ist der Durchschnittsdeutsche erstmal perplex und eher reserviert.
Ein Gespraech auf deutsch mit "Du" will so leicht nicht von der Zunge und auch auf englisch ist der vertrauliche Vorname (anstatt Mr.) beinahe einen Schritt zu weit.

Andererseits, ist das "Du" erstmal etabliert, so fallen im deutschen die ganzen Hoeflichkeitsfloskeln weg und man redekt direkt auf den Punkt und zur Sache ...schliesslich ist man per Du und somit unter Freunden.

Und da zeigen sich dannn auf einmal die englischsprachigen Gegenueber brueskiert ...die Deutschen sind ja "so rude" und gar nicht "polite"


Well ...make up yer feckin' minds, will ya?

auf dem Lande ist man automatisch per du.

im englischen reden wir einander mit den Vornamen an, sind aber nicht unbedingt per Du.

Die Deutschen sind direkt und das stört uns. wir reden mehr um den hiessen Brei.

Die Deutschen machen den Eindrück unhöflich zu sein, in dem sie nicht viel reden. öfters liegt es an eine mangelhaftes English. beispielesweise wenn ich ein Bier bestellen will sag ich nicht einfach BEER. das wirkt unhöflich und Befehlsmäßig vor.

EGAR

See? There you go, not so much different from Germany after all .

peasant

Fuinseog wrote: »

Die Deutschen machen den Eindrück unhöflich zu sein, in dem sie nicht viel reden. öfters liegt es an eine mangelhaftes English. beispielesweise wenn ich ein Bier bestellen will sag ich nicht einfach BEER. das wirkt unhöflich und Befehlsmäßig vor.

Fuer "wheneveryoureready" gibt es kein deutsches Aequivalent, das muss der arme Deutsche erstmal lernen und verstehen bevor es ihm ueber die Lippen kommt

EGAR

Around here it's "whatsyerfancy"...

Fuinseog

peasant wrote: »

Fuer "wheneveryoureready" gibt es kein deutsches Aequivalent, das muss der arme Deutsche erstmal lernen und verstehen bevor es ihm ueber die Lippen kommt

in manche Kulturen macht es keinen Unterschied. bei uns schon. can I have a beer (Oops Name muss man auch nennen) please kann man schon schaffen. je höflicher man ist, desto schneller man serviert wird. wirkt besser als 50 cent Trinkgeld

Fuinseog

EGAR wrote: »

Around here it's "whatsyerfancy"...

I must admit in a small German village they do not quite speak Book German, so you cannot expect Oxford or Schulenglisch in these parts.

EGAR

I know I think it's funny.