How it should have ended (may contain spoilers)

GAAman

Ok well not specifically, i had an idea how about we post how we would have changed the ending/done it differently. It can be little details or big ones i will get the ball rolling

The only thing i would change about the finale would be for locke, after all the shít he has been through he deserved to have helen there in the chapel i would have loved to have seen that.

How about you?

Oh and before anyone says it, lets just leave out the "i would have had a good ending/explain what the island was/ etc etc" stuff yeah? It doesnt add to anything tbh

DonkeyStyle \o/

What's done is done GAAman.

Mr.Nice Guy

I would have liked time travel to have played a part and for the Pilot episode to tie in with the ending. I thought for a long time prior to Season 6 that this would happen.

I liked the idea that in Season 1 Jack and Locke had been sent back, either from the future or an alternate timeline, to do something important and that when they encountered the Monster in the early part of Season 1, it had wiped their memories.

Then Season 6 would end with both men having to go back (obviously this theory hit trouble when Locke got killed but I thought maybe an alternate Locke would go instead)

Mainly I just wanted a WTF moment to satisfy rather than Jack putting a plug in the sink for an unexplained reason and all the other stuff that followed.

GAAman

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

What's done is done GAAman.

Tis just a bit of fun ds, why not give it a try?

blue_steel

Was looking for Time Travel to play a bigger role. Always had an image of Sayid and Locke on board the original sailing of The Black Rock for some reason.
And a headf**k of an ending that would literally force you to go back and start watching the show all over again (like Through The Looking Glass multipied by six seasons).

Dymo

I would of loved if when Hurley was talking to Ben at the end, Ben said you were a great Number 1 then he said that Aaron will also make a great number one, implying that Aaron took over from Hurley and would of solved another mystery of Aaron.

Too much for the writers to come up with.

DonkeyStyle \o/

GAAman wrote: »

Tis just a bit of fun ds, why not give it a try?

No, I'll be waiting in the chapel when ever you're ready to let go and just accept that Lost ended extremely badly.

Well, ok then.
I'd have removed the entire afterlife section of season 6... at the start of season 6 it should have jumped to the airplane (really, not in the afterlife), but they still crash, but this time on a different island... which sets us up nicely for seasons 7 though 12... the survivors recall nothing about the ridiculous bullshít island they were on before and Lost goes back to being good again... it would have been the best twist of all time, but they blew it.

FredBloggs

I agree with Blue Steel there should have been a WTF moment that would cause you to go back to the beginning and look at all 6 seasons.
What Blue Steel and Mr Nice Guy suggest is a lot better than what the writers came up with. Yes the end was a great episode but it didn't result in you saying "So that's what was going on all along."
Jack and Locke being from the future or Sayid etc from the past would have been a real mindblower. And as I repeatedly have posted not every mystery had to be explained but there should have been some rationale to everything whereby you could go back and have a good guess as to why something might have happened

cooker3

blue_steel wrote: »

And a headf**k of an ending that would literally force you to go back and start watching the show all over again (like Through The Looking Glass multipied by six seasons).

See, this is exactly what I didn't want. I guess you could argue that afterlife reveal did that but that was only the sideways, I'm ok with that as it was a 1 season conceit. The main thing is the main story ended "naturally"

The season 3 ending worked for 2 main reasons, first was the wtf element and secondly it opened up so many avenues that the storyline could go down. You can't do the latter for the shows finale as it's all about tying up everything. The wtf feeling is nice but it's kind of cheap way to end a show after 6 years and I much prefer to just have a resolution of every character.

Mr.Nice Guy

cooker3 wrote: »

The season 3 ending worked for 2 main reasons, first was the wtf element and secondly it opened up so many avenues that the storyline could go down. You can't do the latter for the shows finale as it's all about tying up everything. The wtf feeling is nice but it's kind of cheap way to end a show after 6 years and I much prefer to just have a resolution of every character.

But they failed to tie up everything imo. In the finale they didn't even bother. They went down the road of sentimentality and hoped the viewers would try and fill in the blanks for the mysteries. I would say they tried to pass off character resolution as more important than the mystery resolution when in reality, most of us over the years were counting on both.

Some sort of focus on the mystery element would have been good but the manner in which they handled the finale with the light, the drinking of the wine etc. All of that was rubbish in my view and does not make me want to watch the series back.

I recall Emerson saying he wanted a final episode that would make him and fans want to watch the series back again. For me anyway, it failed on that front. A WTF moment could have inspired me to want to watch it back.

I guess it comes down to how satisfying fans found the final season. I found it the weakest one.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

They went down the road of sentimentality and hoped the viewers would try and fill in the blanks for the mysteries.

Yeah I see it similarly, a total cop-out... invent something new to resolve and resolve only that part... "no, forget all the other stuff we said... look at this cute bunny rabbit"
I can't bring myself to watch the finale a second time, but I'm pretty sure there was slow motion hugging involved... which I totally called on another thread. :pac:

GAAman

Dymo wrote: »

I would of loved if when Hurley was talking to Ben at the end, Ben said you were a great Number 1 then he said that Aaron will also make a great number one, implying that Aaron took over from Hurley and would of solved another mystery of Aaron.

Too much for the writers to come up with.

Dont forget the season 6 dvd/blu ray will have 11 minutes of epilogue based on hurley and ben on the island, it might be a possibility

And lads this was meant to be a lighthearted type thread lets try keep it that way yeah?

tok9

blue_steel wrote: »

And a headf**k of an ending that would literally force you to go back and start watching the show all over again (like Through The Looking Glass multipied by six seasons).

I think it's a bit much to have expected such a twist and really the example you gave isn't great. Through the Looking class is a brilliant episode with a massive WTF in it but it was introduced in the episode.

The End did have a WTF moment and it was actually introduced at the beginning of the season. Fair enough if you didn't like it.

As for changing something.. I would have preferred if Locke had a longer "remembering" scene

Something I would have definitely changed in the season would be the script for explaining the whispers. Explanation perfect but the scene was pretty poor.

Johnmb

I wouldn't have bothered with the flash-sideways. Instead, I'd have had flash-backs to tell the story of Jacob and the MIB rather than dedicating an episode to it, and I'd have told Richard's story via them, not given him a full episode. I wouldn't have explained much more about the island, just about the characters involved, why they couldn't kill each other, etc, how MIB came up with the loophole, etc.

cooker3

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

But they failed to tie up everything imo. In the finale they didn't even bother. They went down the road of sentimentality and hoped the viewers would try and fill in the blanks for the mysteries. I would say they tried to pass off character resolution as more important than the mystery resolution when in reality, most of us over the years were counting on both.

Some sort of focus on the mystery element would have been good but the manner in which they handled the finale with the light, the drinking of the wine etc. All of that was rubbish in my view and does not make me want to watch the series back.

I recall Emerson saying he wanted a final episode that would make him and fans want to watch the series back again. For me anyway, it failed on that front. A WTF moment could have inspired me to want to watch it back.

I guess it comes down to how satisfying fans found the final season. I found it the weakest one.

Well personally I don't judge the finale on how much it wants me to go back and re-watch the show; I just want it to tie up the story, to me a wtf element is not a story tie up, or at least I can't really think of a good one.
I remember that interview with Emerson and he also said he wanted a wtf ending, I just think he is wrong on this.

I don't regard the finale as perfect or a perfect tie up of the overall show, epilogue aside, but I think it's a lot better than any wtf ending I can think off.

blue_steel

But if it's a question of an ending that ties up the show being superior to a wtf ending then they failed. The finale didn't come close to tying anything up as Mr Nice Guy outlined above. If they were going to leave so much unanswered I think they might as well have went out on another mystery. On another note I would have liked to have seen the real John Locke somehow brought back. They could have brought his body to the temple, brought him back to life and have a Locke vs Unlocke showdown :pac:

cooker3

blue_steel wrote: »

But if it's a question of an ending that ties up the show being superior to a wtf ending then they failed. The finale didn't come close to tying anything up as Mr Nice Guy outlined above. If they were going to leave so much unanswered I think they might as well have went out on another mystery. On another note I would have liked to have seen the real John Locke somehow brought back. They could have brought his body to the temple, brought him back to life and have a Locke vs Unlocke showdown :pac:

Well I disagree that the ending didn't come close to tying anything up. a lot got tied up, not everything I would have hoped for but far more than some give it credit for imo.

blue_steel

cooker3 wrote: »

Well I disagree that the ending didn't come close to tying anything up. a lot got tied up, not everything I would have hoped for but far more than some give it credit for imo.

What exactly did the finale tie up apart from the flashsideways?

DonkeyStyle \o/

blue_steel wrote: »

What exactly did the finale tie up apart from the flashsideways?

Uhuh, and a flash-sideways that had bugger-all to do with anything we saw in the previous 5 seasons at that.
It was a total bait & switch... we all thought this was an alternate reality created by the detonation of Jughead, but no, turns out it was the afterlife after they all died at some unknown point in the future... so the resolution to the flash sideways is as irrelevant and meaningless as the flash sideways itself.
An ending they could have just wedged in at any point in the series and it wouldn't have made any difference to anything and made just as much sense.

tok9

A bit harsh to say it wasn't relevant in the show at all. Faith and religion are 2 massive themes in the show.

Also the fact we saw the characters past, present , future and afterlife seems quite fitting to me.

I've actually been thinking of the episode where Eko dies. When he dies we see Eko remembering when Himself and Yemi were kids. This could have been his afterlife

cooker3

blue_steel wrote: »

What exactly did the finale tie up apart from the flashsideways?

The Characters story arcs.

blue_steel

cooker3 wrote: »

The Characters story arcs.

So that puts the writing on a par with Greys Anatomy. As long as we all felt warm and fuzzy inside afterwards who cares about 5 season worth of plot making no sense whatsoever.

cooker3

blue_steel wrote: »

So that puts the writing on a par with Greys Anatomy. As long as we all felt warm and fuzzy inside afterwards who cares about 5 season worth of plot making no sense whatsoever.

Well I think any show should tie up the main characters story arcs, never watched Greys Anatomy but good for it if it achieved it.

As for the rest I disagree with it but whatever as I said to Jimbling in a separate thread I wouldn't care if I was the only person in the world to like the ending. All I care about is that I like it.

Sad Professor

Well, maybe I'm alone here, but I didn't think there was anything warm and fuzzy about the how the show ended. Maybe if they had all stayed in the Sideways world at the end. But they didn't. They "left". And since I don't believe in God or the afterlife (nor did I hear any mention of either in the finale) my interpretation is that "leaving" and "moving on" simply means dying. I don't take the Sideways world literally in the same way that I don't take Frodo sailing away to the Grey Havens literally either. Sometimes fictional mediums like film (and television) can move beyond simple realism to show you something a bit more abstract but which touches on deeper and bigger ideas.

As for the various sub-plots that weren't resolved, I don't the blame the finale for not resolving them. Most of them were things that should have be resolved several seasons ago (Walt), while others simply weren't that interesting in the first place (the Others' pregnancy issues) or became so convoluted (Widmore) that the writers were probably wise to leave them hanging. It wasn't the job of the finale to justify every twist and turn the show made. Lost was a great show, but it wasn't perfect. The finale did what it needed to do and did it brilliantly imo. I understand that it didn't work for many people, but, like cooker said, I'm just happy it worked for me.

blue_steel

Sad Professor wrote: »

Well, maybe I'm alone here, but I didn't think there was anything warm and fuzzy about the how the show ended. Maybe if they had all stayed in the Sideways world at the end. But they didn't. They "left". And since I don't believe in God or the afterlife (nor did I hear any mention of either in the finale) my interpretation is that "leaving" and "moving on" simply means dying. I don't take the Sideways world literally in the same way that I don't take Frodo sailing away to the Grey Havens literally either. Sometimes fictional mediums like film (and television) can move beyond simple realism to show you something a bit more abstract but which touches on deeper and bigger ideas.

As for the various sub-plots that weren't resolved, I don't the blame the finale for not resolving them. Most of them were things that should have be resolved several seasons ago (Walt), while others simply weren't that interesting in the first place (the Others' pregnancy issues) or became so convoluted (Widmore) that the writers were probably wise to leave them hanging. It wasn't the job of the finale to justify every twist and turn the show made. Lost was a great show, but it wasn't perfect. The finale did what it needed to do and did it brilliantly imo. I understand that it didn't work for many people, but, like cooker said, I'm just happy it worked for me.

Fair enough I've gone off topic in so much as I don't blame the finale for the shortfalls but season 6 in general. My issue isn't even so much with the unanswered questions but rather the niggling doubt they engender that the writers ever had a coherent plan.
Of course by writing the final dialogue between Jack and Christian in their usual oblique way the writers tried to make the finale all things to all people. But I have to disagree with your interpretation of it. Surely by showing the Losties in any manner of afterlife (the sideways) the writers were implicitly stating that moving on wasn't simply dying. After all what’s the point of going through purgatory if you just die at the end of it? I also think the clunkily religious stained glass window, as well as Michael and Ben's absence from the church, was a massive pointer that the Losties were going on to some form of afterlife reserved for the penitent.
But it's all academic because I bet that Cuse and Lindelof come out at some point down the road and say in their faux intellectual way that the viewer can interpret those scenes in whatever way suits them.

Sad Professor

Of course by writing the final dialogue between Jack and Christian in their usual oblique way the writers tried to make the finale all things to all people.

I actually think they said too much in that scene. It's my one significant criticism of the finale. All the stuff about "dead" and being dead should have been left out of the Jack/Christian scene imo. The writers were obviously at pains to provide some clarification, however, the mention of "dead" has been the source of too much misinterpretation imo. The implications would have been clear without it.

But I have to disagree with your interpretation of it. Surely by showing the Losties in any manner of afterlife (the sideways) the writers were implicitly stating that moving on wasn't simply dying. After all what’s the point of going through purgatory if you just die at the end of it?

But I don't think it is purgatory or the afterlife. They only die once.

I also think the clunkily religious stained glass window, as well as Michael and Ben's absence from the church, was a massive pointer that the Losties were going on to some form of afterlife reserved for the penitent.

I don't take that from it at all. There's no mention or suggestion of God or any higher power. No mention of rules preventing Ben or Michael from leaving. They can't leave because they aren't ready to let go. It's like Bill Pullman in Lost Highway, trapped in a loop - no one is keeping him there except himself because he refuses to remember what he did.

blue_steel

Sad Professor wrote: »

But I don't think it is purgatory or the afterlife. They only die once.

Sorry I'm struggling to understand what you mean. For example, Jack dies on the island in 2007. No God, no afterlife, he's dead. So what exactly is his sideways story? Some existential nanosecond as he dies that only happened in his own mind? In that case then the sideways isn't a shared experience between the Losties but something that only Jack is aware of. If there is no sideways purgatory then the ending makes no sense.

I don't take that from it at all. There's no mention or suggestion of God or any higher power.

FROM WIKIPEDIA: Jack makes his way into the back door of the church. He finds himself inside a small chapel with various religious artefacts, and a stained glass window with six symbols of different faiths - Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism and Taoism.

They were practically hitting us over the head with God.

No mention of rules preventing Ben or Michael from leaving.

Not rules but purgatory is the process of purification for the souls of those who die but aren't yet ready for Heaven. And Ben does say "I have some things I still need to work out. I think I'll stay here a while." Open to interpretation again but that's how I'd read it.

Sad Professor

blue_steel wrote: »

Sorry I'm struggling to understand what you mean. For example, Jack dies on the island in 2007. No God, no afterlife, he's dead. So what exactly is his sideways story? Some existential nanosecond as he dies that only happened in his own mind? In that case then the sideways isn't a shared experience between the Losties but something that only Jack is aware of. If there is no sideways purgatory then the ending makes no sense.

Why does it have to be purgatory though? Maybe it's just a shared dream that they all experience on the threshold of death. The word purgatory implies so many other things which aren't present in the Sideways. I know a lot of people are using the word very broadly to mean "The In-Between", but even that implies an afterlife which there's no actual evidence of in the episode either. Christian doesn't say they are going anywhere, he just says they are "moving on", which is pretty vague. And a white light can mean all sorts of things, like peace and silence and nothingness.

FROM WIKIPEDIA: Jack makes his way into the back door of the church. He finds himself inside a small chapel with various religious artefacts, and a stained glass window with six symbols of different faiths - Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism and Taoism.

They were practically hitting us over the head with God.

I wouldn't read too much into the religious symbols. They are just symbols. It's arguable whether Buddhists and Taoist even believe in God. They had numerous opportunities to imply or show God, or invoke deus ex machina. It would have been so easy to make the island God, or to have John Locke return as an angel. But they didn't. Contrast this with how BSG ended.

jv2000

Well believe it or not but I was happy with the ending. It didn't tie up everything but Lost wouldn't be Lost if it didn't leave something to confuse you.

The only thing I was disappointed with was that the dog wasn't with them in the final scene...... I guess all dogs don't go to heaven! :eek:

Okay I was also a bit disappointed that Mr Eko didn't make an appearance

shezmagic

Johnmb wrote: »

I wouldn't have bothered with the flash-sideways. Instead, I'd have had flash-backs to tell the story of Jacob and the MIB rather than dedicating an episode to it, and I'd have told Richard's story via them, not given him a full episode. I wouldn't have explained much more about the island, just about the characters involved, why they couldn't kill each other, etc, how MIB came up with the loophole, etc.

Agree with a lot of this.

I would have kept the flash-sideways though but given it far less screen time. There was no need to give us 20-odd minutes per episode during Season 6 showing us random scenes of Sawyer going on a date with Charlotte, Kate having her hand-cuffs removed at a roadside garage, etc. Then with the footage time you save you could devote instead to your idea of flashbacks to tell the island backstory in chronological form, showing far more of the Jacob and MiB, the nature of the island rules and their interaction with the various cultures and civilizations that resided there over the millenia.

For instance after LA X, you could have Island real-time + Island flash-backs for one episode followed by Island real-time + flash sideways for the next and repeat throughout the season. The mythology fans get more of their answers, nobody has an idea what is going on in the sideways until 'The End' and we are emotionally engaged with events on the island. You finish up the flash-back scenes 3 or 4 episodes from the finish and proceed as they did.

I thought 'The End' itself was near perfect. Although I maybe would have left out the slow-mo hugging scenes in the church and finished with Jack simply walking out and seeing everybody there as a group for a moment ot two and then cut back to the final scenes on the island where he stumbles through the bamboo forest.



*

Linguo

Sad Professor wrote: »

don't take the Sideways world literally in the same way that I don't take Frodo sailing away to the Grey Havens literally either. Sometimes fictional mediums like film (and television) can move beyond simple realism to show you something a bit more abstract but which touches on deeper and bigger ideas.

Frodo did sail away though to the Grey Havens:D

Sad Professor

Linguo wrote: »

Frodo did sail away though to the Grey Havens:D

Well, actually I got that wrong, he sails AWAY from the Grey Havens. But, yeah, literally that's all that happens. However, I've always taken it as a metaphor for death. Frodo is dying, so he leaves to find peace in another land. The scenes of goodbye and a ship sailing off are far more powerful than if he had just died in his bed or on the slopes of Mount Doom.

Of course, Tolkienites would passionately dispute this as they take terrible offence at the slightest suggestion of allegory in LOTR.

Linguo

Sad Professor wrote: »

Well, actually I got that wrong, he sails AWAY from the Grey Havens. But, yeah, literally that's all that happens. However, I've always taken it as a metaphor for death. Frodo is dying, so he leaves to find peace in another land. The scenes of goodbye and a ship sailing off are far more powerful than if he had just died in his bed or on the slopes of Mount Doom.

Of course, Tolkienites would passionately dispute this as they take terrible offence at the slightest suggestion of allegory in LOTR.

Well I wouldn't and I adore the books! Anyway this is getting off topic:D

cooker3

At least Lost only had 1 ending!