help appreciated!!

moonpurple

if a senior clinical psychologist also has the title Dr
would that look like a medical doctor who then studied psychology without choosing to take the bigger psychiatry road

also in general what are the usual qualifications of a senior clinical psychologist?

thanks in advance

r3nu4l

A psychologist with a 'Dr' title most likely has a PhD. It may be that they actually have a medical degree but usually it means they have a PhD in Psychology. If in doubt check their credentials.

I do know someone with a PhD in History who works as a counsellor these days and uses the Dr title on her business cards, without making reference to the fact that it's in History. That's misrepresentation in my view.

MysticalSoul

My brother who has a Phd in Chemical Engineering explained the difference between Dr and Doctor to me once. According to him medical doctors have adopted the use of Dr incorrectly, as Dr is reserved really for those who have obtained the initials by virtue of PhD, whereas a medical doctor is doctor by profession as opposed to Dr, unless they have undertaken a PhD.

r3nu4l

MysticalSoul wrote: »

My brother who has a Phd in Chemical Engineering explained the difference between Dr and Doctor to me once. According to him medical doctors have adopted the use of Dr incorrectly, as Dr is reserved really for those who have obtained the initials by virtue of PhD, whereas a medical doctor is doctor by profession as opposed to Dr, unless they have undertaken a PhD.

Your brother has it more or less right there. The title Dr was originally adopted and awarded as an honourary title to represent the level of learning and time required to gain the medical degree but quickly evolved into a 'standard' title. Sure even dentists are at it now

In the case of the original poster, it's very likely that the psychologist in question has a PhD as most people who get a degree in Psychology usually need a post-graduate qualification of some sort to progress their career.

hotspur

Most clinical psychologists in this country don't have PhDs as such as their doctorate is a professional one as opposed to be a purely research one. I know it varies in, say, America. A senior clinical psychologist will have a degree in psychology and a professional doctorate in clinical psychology, though it's possible they have a masters in clinical psychology in some places.

Also I agree with you r3nu4l, that is misrepresentation in my book too.

Odysseus

r3nu4l wrote: »

A psychologist with a 'Dr' title most likely has a PhD. It may be that they actually have a medical degree but usually it means they have a PhD in Psychology. If in doubt check their credentials.

I do know someone with a PhD in History who works as a counsellor these days and uses the Dr title on her business cards, without making reference to the fact that it's in History. That's misrepresentation in my view.

Spot on, but without checking up on individual professional organisations, I believe I correct in stating that all counselling and psychotherapy bodies would take a dim view of it. I have just been sorting out my memberships for this year and both state that the therapist should not misrepresent their qualifications in an area. However, in such a case it may be more difficult to prove.

The person is of course entitle to use their title, but the could just merely claim that they state this to individual clients as the start of treatment.

It's a tad off topic, but some of the stuff that goes on is terrible. A fellow counsellor and myself where asked to speak about recent papers we had done at one of our sector meeting. Both of us did so, 10 min each max, I recieved a certificate of attendance from our training unit today, naming both myself and the other therapist as part of our CPD:eek: Utter madness and misrepresentation, I taking the weekend to think about how I am going to address this.

Gibs

It's very unlikely that someone who trained in Ireland and is working in Ireland with the title Dr who is a senior clinical psychologist is a medical doctor who went down the road of psychology rather than psychiatry, as per the original query from the op. (As an aside, I would also question the notion that psychiatry is a "bigger road" :rolleyes:)

The vast majority of senior clinical psychologists with the title Dr before their name in Ireland have completed the professional doctorate training available in UCD, Trinity, NUIG (Galway), UL (Limerick) or QUB (Belfast). These courses generally take the form of 3 years spent working in a number of different clinical settings under the close supervision of a senior clinical psychologist.

The clinical settings usually include those that treat children, adults, people with disabilites and some other specialist variations on these. The 3 year training also involves conducting a major piece of research and several other smaller pieces of research, several essays and other pieces of written work that demonstrate acquisition of expertise and understanding of relevant topics. There is also usually a didactic element involved in the training where the trainees attend lectures and workshops on a regular basis, often in a 'block' format to learn about how to work effectively with people as a clinical psychologist.

The doctorate they obtain is different from a PhD in psychology and varies in what it is called (Some call it a 'Doctor of Clinical Psychology' - D.Clin.Psych, whereas others call it a 'Doctor of Psychological Science' D.Psych.Sc.

Except in unusual or historical cases (e.g. grandfathering rules), having a PhD in Psychology does not necessarily qualify you to work as a (senior) clinical psychologist and in fact many people who undertake the professional clinical psychology courses mentioned above (i.e. the D.Clin.Psych or D.Psych.Sc) already have PhD qualifications in psychology, usually on foot of a major piece of research they have already conducted.

Also, some people may have obtained what is known as a 'top-up' doctorate at some point in their career. These are people who qualified in clinical psychology before it was a 3 year professional doctorate degree. Some may have obtained an M.Psych.Sc. or an M.A. in clinical psychology, or even a B.A. or a H.Dip.Psych (in the good old frontier days of psychology in Ireland!!) and then subsequently added to their qualification and converted it to a doctorate by taking on a piece of clinically relevant research. Several universities in the U.K. have facilitated this kind of thing over the years.

There may be some exceptions to the above that I am not aware of, but it's probably likely that the person you are referring to has a basic degree in psychology, possibly a master's degree and probably a professional doctorate degree in clinical psychology from one of the courses mentioned above.

These parameters of course may not apply to someone who trained in another country where qualifications are obtained differently. For example, in the USA, you can be clinical psychologist with a PhD or a Psy.D. The basic difference is that the PhD person has done more in-depth research and in America there is a sort of pecking order within the profession with PhD clinical psychologists probably feeling a bit superior to Psy.D clinical psychologists (though I know several Psy.D clinicians who would challenge that ).

You could consider asking the person about their qualifications to get clarity. I would imagine most professionally qualified clinical psychologists would be delighted to explain their credentials and would be glad of the chance to allay any concerns you might have. It allows them to establish some credibility and perhaps separate themselves from other people who have not gone through a rigorous training. It's probably also likely to be a welcome change from the 'helpful' comments of their own family and friends who have spent years reminding them that they are not 'real' doctors

Odysseus

Gibs wrote: »

It's very unlikely that someone who trained in Ireland and is working in Ireland with the title Dr who is a senior clinical psychologist is a medical doctor who went down the road of psychology rather than psychiatry, as per the original query from the op. (As an aside, I would also question the notion that psychiatry is a "bigger road" :rolleyes:)


There may be some exceptions to the above that I am not aware of, but it's probably likely that the person you are referring to has a basic degree in psychology, possibly a master's degree and probably a professional doctorate degree in clinical psychology from one of the courses mentioned above.

Interesting as usual Gibs, just on the parts above. I know they are very rare but as you said you get the odd one. I know one lady who trained as a GP, but now works as a counsellor in a community based addiction facility. Clearly in these cases the person is very involved in their work.

Whatever about working as senior psychologist in whatever type of facility, dropping from a medical professional's fee to working in a small community project as a counsellor is a big drop. Though its a tad more common in the psychoanaltic area, I would know a few people who originally trained as psychiatrists who no longer under take any medical procedures, they just work as psychoanalysts.

Cinful

hotspur wrote: »

I know it varies in, say, America. A senior clinical psychologist will have a degree in psychology and a professional doctorate in clinical psychology, though it's possible they have a masters in clinical psychology in some places.

America has variations.
Examples (not exhaustive):
MD = Medical Doctor
PhD = in Psychology (may have a theoretical, empirical, or practice focus)
PsyD= Doctor of Psychology (typically practice focus)
EdD = Doctor of Education (can have Ed Psych/Counseling emphasis)

**A practice focus may or may not be in clinical; e.g., it could be in organizational behavior.

America also has accreditation standards for universities that award doctorates in all fields, as well as those recognized by APA. Not all programs are APA, and there are unaccredited degree mills no matter the discipline that award worthless degrees.

Your best bet is to check the credentials.

FasttimesNY

thanks for the info...


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