Gun safety, best practices!

McGilla

Hi all, I saw a thread where an airsoft player, has had trouble with the Gardai and had a gun confiscated.

I think it would be good for the Airsofters on boards to have a thread on best practice regarding transport & storage of equipment. And also what to do about lost or stolen equipment.

I know there are a lot of very experienced and very knowledgeable players here, who don't mind sharing that knowledge.

It will be in the best interest of the sport and for all, to do our best to cooperate with the Gardai, and to ensure best practices are followed.

So let the lectures begin!

(also poster please include gun case info, what, where, how much!)

Witcher

McGilla wrote: »

Hi all, I saw a thread where an airsoft player, has had trouble with the Gardai and had a gun confiscated.

I think it would be good for the Airsofters on boards to have a thread on best practice regarding transport & storage of equipment. And also what to do about lost or stolen equipment.

I know there are a lot of very experienced and very knowledgeable players here, who don't mind sharing that knowledge.

It will be in the best interest of the sport and for all, to do our best to cooperate with the Gardai, and to ensure best practices are followed.

So let the lectures begin!

(also poster please include gun case info, what, where, how much!)

In a case, unloaded and out of sight, it's common sense really

The gun was seized by the guards in the other thread because it was just lying in the car uncased by the sounds of it.

Captain Chaos

All this very basic stuff is covered in the airsoft FAQ thread sticky which no one reads.

It's very simple. You keep all airsoft devices out of sight of the general public. That includes gardens or back garden unless they are blocked from view. If you have to transport a device keep it in a suitable gun case or carrier bag. You should only be transporting them to skirmishes or an airsoft store. Otherwise they should not be on your person out in public or in your car, van or otherwise.

Rhinocharge

Best pratice is store the RIF in a gun bag or lockable case.
Always transport the RIFs, with the magazines out, batteries disconeccted & no green gas ( propane ) or CO2 within.
Transport same in the trunk of the car.
Do not leave on the back seat in public view & it's advisable not to wrap it in plastic bags.

Use common sense.

Puding

as previously said all common sense really

only carry your rifs when traveling to and from a skirmish or event, do not keep them in your vehicle at all time

store your rifs in gun bags or a case do not use bin bags or a hold all or tennis cases as i've seen in the past, although for example a tennis bag seems like a good cheap option it also can look as if your trying to hid something

travel with magazines and battery's out of your rifs

ideally travel with rifs in bag/case in boot but if not possible as long as there in the bags/case the back seat is not the end of the world as there still out of sight

ideally do not travel in camo

keep webbing and equipment in bags as well, traveling with a fully kitten cirus vest on your back seat is just going to cause trouble

McGilla

Cheers for the replies so far!

With all respect lads, it’s all good to say "Common Sense", but the problem is sense isn’t that common.

I know it’s spelling it out, but there are a lot of kids taking up airsofting and being such a fast growing sport, teaching people the basics is crucial to keep the sport in a healthy light!

Puding

McGilla wrote: »

Cheers for the replies so far!

With all respect lads, it’s all good to say "Common Sense", but the problem is sense isn’t that common.

I know it’s spelling it out, but there are a lot of kids taking up airsofting and being such a fast growing sport, teaching people the basics is crucial to keep the sport in a healthy light!

have to agree common sense is not that common, a lot of that comes down to site and players teaching new players the right and wrongs as in reality very few airsoft in Ireland use boards

personally i;ve lost count of the number of times i've talked to people about the way they transport there rifs

Captain Chaos

Puding wrote: »

personally i;ve lost count of the number of times i've talked to people about the way they transport there rifs

I have been guilty of that myself at the start. I knew back then that you had to have all devices secured properly but there were times where I have brought devices to stores for repairs or mods in sports/gym bags, the AEGs and GBBs partly stripped down and unloaded of course. I didn't have any carry cases or bags that could fit rifles at the time though. I'd never consider black bin liners though, just the idea of that is plain wrong in my eyes.

MagicIRL

I keep my AEGs (The two I have anyway) in a Guitar bag. It does the job because the only time they're ever outside is when A: being put into the boot of the car or B: being taken out of the boot at the site/at home.

J.D.R

Oh, and big tip. Keep away from scangers:D

Private Snafu

Blay wrote: »

In a case, unloaded and out of sight, it's common sense really

The gun was seized by the guards in the other thread because it was just lying in the car uncased by the sounds of it.

Just to clarify the GBB in question is constantly kept in a locked hardcase... Why it was in the car I don't know (the pleasure of not living at home )
Tbh as much as a gob****e as my brother is, he's not stupid, whenever we head to a game both of us (and everyone else should really) check that their aeg's are safe and clear, mags and batteries are out and RIF's in a case.

I have had the unfortunate experience of being pulled by Garda going to a skirmish, luckily had my Red Barn members card... Saved me a lot of hassle. It really does depend on what Garda stops you and why.

andy_g

J.D.R wrote: »

Oh, and big tip. Keep away from scangers

And that would be gun safety how exactly?

gungun

"Aw mon giv uz dat bag der mon"
"No sir, you will not have this bag"
Awwww giv uz it awr oil dew ya"

Staying away from scangers isn't something you should have on a check list/ write on your hand before going out, it's generally something you try to do all the time

McGilla

andy_g wrote: »

And that would be gun safety how exactly?

I think it was a joke, you remember jokes don't ya?

Beez

Airsoft - Serious business...

J.D.R

Apologies for confuision. I have added a smiley to show my intent at some lighthearted humour

McGilla

J.D.R wrote: »

Apologies for confuision. I have added a smiley to show my intent at some lighthearted humour

Smileys make everything fun!!!

andy_g

Jokes what are they? all i know is :mad: Anger!!!!!

horgan_p

I have a simple rule of thumb - treat it as if its real.
Its the rule for the guards , so its the rule for me.

At an airsoft site -

1) always assume an aeg is loaded - even if it isnt , it is. even then , if you think the safetys on - it isnt.
2) always point the aeg to the floor , why ? cause of rule number 1.
3) never point an aeg in a safe zone , why ? cause of rule number 1.
4) never look down the barrel of an aeg ( you laugh , but i've seen donkeys do it) , why ? (you should be able to guess the rest)


when transporting the aeg

again - treat it as if its real.

spend the money , buy a proper case. fine to keep it in a guitar / cello / diggerydoo case , but life gets even more awkward if a guard asks you to open it. the question now becomes "why were you hiding it in a cello case ?" - you're now willfully concealing the aeg.

If its in a gun style bag then the guard already has a clue as to whats inside.
Always explain to the guard - before unleashing your ak / m16 / whatever- that its a fake.
Transport the aeg - as mentioned above - in whats called an inert state i.e. in such a condition as it cant be fired straight out of the bag - no battery , no mag , no bbs , no gas.

Hand the guard the aeg as if it were a real gun - i.e. offer him the butt of the gun - dont point it at him.Its about showing the guard you arent a lunatic and can responsibly carry and take care of realistic imitation firearms. that first word "realistic " is the key.

Store the aeg in an inert state also , just in case someone picks it up and hasnt read rule number 1 above.


Sorry for the doc style post.

Frank the Manc

Re: Propper cases, stay well clear of the the "alumininium flight cases".

You might feel like agent 47 with one but they are pure junk and wont protect your guns in a fall/crush/etc.

Buy a moulded RS case, the likes of Plano - Budget but very effective or Pelican - Expensive but you get what you pay for.

Also keep you finger out the trigger guard until youre ready to fire, see so many clowns pick up a gun and instinctly put their finger on the trigger, you mightn't be used to handling real guns but when/if you do transition to them those bad habits will carry over and you will end up puttin a neat little hole where there wasnt one before.

Treat them as if they were real and you shouldnt have too much trouble with them, from a safety point of view anyways.

se conman

Use common sense .If you see someone that does not have common sense , loan them some of yours as it is all of our interest to keep the sport safe and in a good light.Airsoft gear should only be visible on three occasions.
1 In the shop when you buy it.
2 In your home.
3 On site.

TheDoc

Mr H. pretty much said everything worth saying.

Transport
Have your equipment stowed away in a gunbag or locked base.
Have it stored in your boot and out of site.
If you want to be extra safety consious keep mags unloaded and batteries unplugged, youve plenty of time before the games begin.

In the event you do get stopped dont panic. The authorities at this stage should know whats what, but you can always get an awkward guard etc making things awkward. Keep a cool head, dont impose yourself by flashing iaa cards and the like, found previously this just annoys them and you just seem over zealous. Keep it cool and answer questions as they are asked. You've nothing to hide so dont act like it.

On site
Keep your mags out of your gun in the safe zone. You have to be a spa to let it go off, but it just gives everyone piece of mind and keeps marshalls happy.

If you need a dry fire make sure you do it with muzzle into your bag, or make your way out of the safezone and clear your chamber.

When a game is over just pop your mag out and clear the chamber.

Keep your muzzle pointed to the ground incase you do find out your a wally.

If a marshall gives you instructions just do what they say, it makes everyones life easier. No matter how ridiculous it is.

Leave your ego at the door, it doesnt matter if your trained military, an armed guard or a xbox fanatic, everyones an airsofter on the field. Gets me up is the blokes who think they are Rambo re-incarnate and dont need to follow safety rules cause they know better : / Sets a **** example for new or younger players.

Plus its usually them that ****s up.

fisherclark

J.D.R wrote: »

Oh, and big tip. Keep away from scangers:D

and kids!!

my brother put his gun down to head out and get some air with the rest of us, his being the more impressive gun and longer(size matters!!), one of the kids picked it up but didnt think it would be as heavy as it was and let the gun drop causing €100 wort of damage, but we didnt find out it was the kid till after.

lesson learned, out of sight, out of mind.

fisherclark

Ps. thats safety of the gun.

An eye is replacable but an AEG is for life.!!

lux-et-veritas

Puding wrote: »

ideally do not travel in camo

bu***r thats pretty much how i dress most of the time (i love my flecktarn)....

seriously though fair play for this tread, its said that to make someone properly understand something you have to tell them at least 3 times. so to echo what horgan_p and some others have said:
when ever transporting, handleing or opperating any RIF.
TREAT IT AS IF IT IS REAL
TREAT IT AS IF IT IS REAL
TREAT IT AS IF IT IS REAL

that way, no one looses an eye, no one gets arrested/stuff confiscated and no one (lets all pray there is NEVER a first time) gets shot by a trigger happy armed responce officer.

Drachnien

se conman wrote: »

Airsoft gear should only be visible on three occasions.

2 In your home.

you should actually be careful with this one, main thing is to watch the windows, you never know who will glance in, it may be your home but it would still be "in public sight".
Just somthing to remember that no one seems to mention.

amurph0

TheDoc wrote: »

Leave your ego at the door, it doesnt matter if your trained military, an armed guard or a xbox fanatic, everyones an airsofter on the field. Gets me up is the blokes who think they are Rambo re-incarnate and dont need to follow safety rules cause they know better : / Sets a **** example for new or younger players.

Plus its usually them that ****s up.

Actually it seems to me that the actual trained military types act properly safe, follow the rules and use the proper battle drills and so on that they were trained with, rather then go off rambo-ing on their own and dis-regarding the bang-bang rule, etc. But if they are in a group they do seem to separate from the non-professional group and go off in their own gang.

For me i've mostly seen some non-professional types who think their bad ass and try to re-inact things they've seen in films and games, who don't bother being safe with their AEG and dis-regard the bang-bang rule altogether, as well as not working as part of a team and trying to order other people to do things.

Just felt that i should point that out, but it may be off topic, sorry

TheDoc

amurph0 wrote: »

Actually it seems to me that the actual trained military types act properly safe, follow the rules and use the proper battle drills and so on that they were trained with, rather then go off rambo-ing on their own and dis-regarding the bang-bang rule, etc. But if they are in a group they do seem to separate from the non-professional group and go off in their own gang.

For me i've mostly seen some non-professional types who think their bad ass and try to re-inact things they've seen in films and games, who don't bother being safe with their AEG and dis-regard the bang-bang rule altogether, as well as not working as part of a team and trying to order other people to do things.

Just felt that i should point that out, but it may be off topic, sorry

Fair point, everyone has different experiences.

I find that 95% of the stuff I do is from some sort of film or TV series, and 100% of the time I look awesome doing it

I also disregard the bang bang rule, cause its just too annoying most of the time, sure if im to inches behind someone ill give them the shout, or in some circumstances give them the option, but the way i see it used most of the time is outragous, so its safer just shooting

Also, calling it the bang bang rule makes it sound like something that some players may mis-interpret causing severe physical and mental confusion

SNAKEDOC

everyone who plays airsoft reenacts their fv scenes on the field of play. most people also rather give orders than recieve them in my experience. everyone wants to be the chief. also a lot of people are the gun tooting type who pull guns out of all sorts of places. there has been some posts here with the perfect answer as regards safety such as treat it as if it is real and loaded. good advice. with regards to transport abs plastic cases that can be locked are good. buy a pad lock in the two euro shop and lock that bitch up. gardai will be a bit more forgiving if the see you with a case locked up and also i see guys packing all accessories together. i kee bb's seperate from the airsot rifle and also the battery is somwhere else in my bags too. the mags have their own pouch and my pistol is the same so if stopped nothing looks like i can pull it to bare in a second it would take me ten minutes to pull out the kit and load it up. guys stopped with a full loaded mag and an airsoft rifle lying in a flimsy gun bag ready for use is asking for trouble gardai can argue that it can be used in public too easy

sliabh

amurph0 wrote: »

Actually it seems to me that the actual trained military types act properly safe, follow the rules and use the proper battle drills and so on that they were trained with

You can always tell the noobs on a site by the fact they go arund with their finger on the trigger ALL the time, even walking back to the safe zone.

Growler!!!

amurph0 wrote: »

Actually it seems to me that the actual trained military types act properly safe, follow the rules and use the proper battle drills and so on that they were trained with, rather then go off rambo-ing on their own and dis-regarding the bang-bang rule, etc. But if they are in a group they do seem to separate from the non-professional group and go off in their own gang.

Ha ha, Have you played in the indoor site in the Marina?
There's group of lads from the barracks who play regularly. They are known for sending a lad running into the offices at the back. When he gets riddled he calls "HIT" then proceeds to walk out saying "Yep, Theres 3 guys in that room":D. Then does the same thing into the next room:mad: - Never saw that in TM201........

sealgaire

They are not guns, they are toys

Witcher

sealgaire wrote: »

They are not guns, they are toys

They are Realistic Imitation Firearms and should be treated as if they are real steel firearms, it's better to be safe than sorry.

sealgaire

If they are so dangerous then they should be controlled or licenced

Witcher

sealgaire wrote: »

If they are so dangerous then they should be controlled or licenced

It's not about danger it's about what the public perceive them to be if they are seen in public, most people don't know about airsoft and seeing one being throw into the boot of a car with no case on it would look dodgy to the average person we have to account for that and take proper precautions.

Inari

The thing about them being 'Toys' is valid to their use, but not to their transit. They look real, and the general public won't differentiate between Replica and Real, they won't take that risk.

I was reading a review of an Airsoft Famas - he took pictures of the replica to include in the review, and his mother brought them to get developed. Next thing the guy hears is the Emergancy Response Unit knocking at his door, asking why he owns a nato-round firing assault rifle. It was all sorted out in the end, but it's key to remember that they look real so accounting for public perception is a nice safety precaution.

Puding

there no longer 'toys', the law know classes them as RIFS ( Replica imitation firearms or realistic imitation firearms depending on where you read but both the same thing ) and in public a rif is treated as a real firearm that is why how there transported is so important

the danger lies where people just see them as toys and without risk, it is where people get lazy and accidents happen

amurph0

Growler!!! wrote: »

Ha ha, Have you played in the indoor site in the Marina?
There's group of lads from the barracks who play regularly. They are known for sending a lad running into the offices at the back. When he gets riddled he calls "HIT" then proceeds to walk out saying "Yep, Theres 3 guys in that room":D. Then does the same thing into the next room:mad: - Never saw that in TM201........

The guys i play with are foreign military. :P

Growler!!! wrote: »

Never saw that in TM201........

Who says it isn't? And who say's it's not? TM201 is restricted and shouldn't be discussed on a public forum. I'm not sayin it's in there, but i'm not saying it isn't either because i'm not allowed say and neither are you! :P

shhhhhhhhhh........!

SNAKEDOC

Puding wrote: »

there no longer 'toys', the law know classes them as RIFS ( Replica imitation firearms or realistic imitation firearms depending on where you read but both the same thing ) and in public a rif is treated as a real firearm that is why how there transported is so important

the danger lies where people just see them as toys and without risk, it is where people get lazy and accidents happen

they are actually toys until used in a manner which shows the toy to be a real weapon. obviously using on a site is ok but running into a bank all tooled up with ak in tow is attemting to show the "toy" as a "real weapon". two seperate things. it is only an imitation firearm when used improperly in open view of the public. for use on an airsoft site they are toys. the term imitation firearm is used if gardai get involved when an incident happens and the public are put in fear of their lives cus they think a nut is running around with a real gun.

Puding

since last Christmas there rifs, does not matter if there on skirmish site or under your bed, that is there classification know, if it can be mistaken as a real firearm by the layman on the street it has the RIF classification in basic terms

that is why the new laws on imports, 'when' enforced will govern the importation of RIFS, if something was only classified as a rif once it had been used in public as you say that would make no sense as the importation laws would not actually control anything

we used to be toy because tbh we became legal by accident a loop hole as they say, with the new bill we obtained legal recognition and the definition of a RIF, the definition of RIF is defined by look not by use