Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Brian Cowan survives vote barely 82/77

«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    paddy wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0615/politics.html

    Looks like Fianna Fail just survived, personally I would like to see the back of them for a long time.

    Well you are not going to see the back of them , for a long time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Oh wow, thats a surprise...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    i'm lost for words at this stage we are well and truly f***ed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    This post has been deleted.
    Excellent point. As time goes on FF are increasingly looking like the lesser of two evils so to speak. I shudder at the thought of voting for them but unless the opposition get their acts together I may have to.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    With FG imploding and Eamon Gilmore smugly expecting to become the next Taoiseach, I can't say I'm too upset to see the government survive, for now.

    What to do when you have an atrocious government, but a worse opposition?[/QUOT

    any potential dictators out there ?.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    danbohan wrote: »
    With FG imploding and Eamon Gilmore smugly expecting to become the next Taoiseach, I can't say I'm too upset to see the government survive, for now.

    What to do when you have an atrocious government, but a worse opposition?

    any potential dictators out there ?.
    Hello. :D

    Haha


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    I guess that means there's 3 by elections that won't be happening anytime soon.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    A sad day for accountability and democracy.

    If nothing else, maybe it will show some of the less-savvy electorate that Cowen's "I accept responsibility" was more about appearances than sincerity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    If nothing else, maybe it will show some of the less-savvy electorate that Cowen's "I accept responsibility" was more about appearances than sincerity.

    Why?
    You can accept something and still shrug it off :D


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    peasant wrote: »
    Why?
    You can accept something and still shrug it off :D

    Hence the first sentence.

    Shallow, insincere "Acceptance" is not the same as taking responsibility and actually being held accountable.

    Ever seen a murderer "accept responsibility" and then get off scot-free without having sanctions imposed ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Smiley Burnett


    are ye all that stupid???? did ye really expect the govt to fall this evening??
    the motion of no confidence in cowen was put down for debate in order to show him up and embrass him in the dail!

    cowen was always going to win it!! this govt will last the full term unless

    1--the greens walk out
    2--ff backbenchers try to save their skins and vote against the govt on a budgetary matter

    now please cop on!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Smiley Burnett


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Excellent point. As time goes on FF are increasingly looking like the lesser of two evils so to speak. I shudder at the thought of voting for them but unless the opposition get their acts together I may have to.

    any excuse to vote for fianna fail!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    are ye all that stupid???? did ye really expect the govt to fall this evening??

    Unfortunately I have to agree.

    The only day that this might have worked was last week when FF members were dossing off.

    Once Cowen managed to delay it until today, it was a non-runner.

    Justice was never going to be done today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Unfortunately I have to agree.

    The only day that this might have worked was last week when FF members were dossing off.

    Once Cowen managed to delay it until today, it was a non-runner.

    Justice was never going to be done today.


    How was justice not done? Did someone vote twice or something? Or did people freely and fairly elected by the people vote. And the outcome was one that you disagreed with?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    How was justice not done? Did someone vote twice or something? Or did people freely and fairly elected by the people vote. And the outcome was one that you disagreed with?

    The person identified by two reports as being responsible for the current crisis stayed on as leader of the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I'm actually giving strong consideration to voting FF in the next general election. I'm not a fan of any politician at all but I have to vote for someone and to me, FF is starting to seem like the least worst option.

    The reason is that whilst they have certainly acted the maggot in the past, so too did almost everyone else. Let us not forget that FG ran the 2007 election making crazy promised like laptops for every child in secondary school or "free" GP visits for all. Then we have labour, the champions of the working man (whomever he is) with their robin hood approach to finance. SF, I'm not even going to mention.

    So yes, FF have made mistakes, bad ones but the idea that they can do nothing right is absurd. Only recently, they attempted to tackle social welfare and they are at least trying to make cuts in some areas. Let no one be under any illusion, this HAS to be done but if you look at what is coming from FG and labours, you will see nothing but lists of reasons why FF are bad and insane promises like 100k new jobs and a green/smart economy by 2020 or what have you.

    Besides look at what has happened in FG with Kenny. I don't think much of that man but he has been stabbed in the back by his own party who, motivate by their own selfish agenda of power, want him out but are claiming with a straight face that this is for Ireland.

    FF, FG, labour, SF, the Greens and the rest, they are all the same type. Never forget for a moment that politicians work in an area where honesty, loyalty and selflessness will get you no where. So when thousands of angry wrenches go to the poles to cast their anti FF votes, they should know that they are only seeing off the same people they are welcoming in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    The person identified by two reports as being responsible for the current crisis stayed on as leader of the country.


    But liam that doesn't support your statement that justice wasn't done.


    Would you prefer fg or labour to come in now and do what the Tories are doing in England at the moment. Straight away they cone in and start saying " oh it's worse than we thought" In my opinion that is a cop out and a ploy on their part to buy themselves time and cop out on election promises. And I am certain that the opposition would use that card at every opportunity if they got elected. At least with ff you don't have this. You have a party steadfastly looking for a solution to this GLOBAL crisis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Straight away they cone in and start saying " oh it's worse than we thought" In my opinion that is a cop out and a ploy on their part to buy themselves time and cop out on election promises. And I am certain that the opposition would use that card at every opportunity if they got elected. At least with ff you don't have this.

    What ?

    For starters, every time we hear about Anglo or NAMA it's "worse than we thought".

    Then, when it comes to day-to-day issues such as employment or inflation or whatever, we keep hearing "we've turned a corner" so often that we're getting dizzy.

    At least if FG or the Tories say that, they're telling the truth, instead of lying through their teeth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Look, Fianna Fail have to lose the next election - thats just a basic requirement of the view that we have a republic here, where the people hold their government to account for its failure. The "Ah shure the opposition are no better!" argument only holds so long as it is probable that the opposition can do a worse job than Fianna Fail.

    Given the state of the country, the demoralisation of the people beaten down and the confirmation of the appalling abdication of fiscal responsibility of the government over the past 10 years in the recent reports on the banking and fiscal crisis, it is no longer probable that the opposition can do a worse job than Fianna Fail. It is simply impossible. Short of inducing nuclear winter, it is hard to see how any credible alternative coalition could do a worse job than Fianna Fail.

    So hence it is not a question of voting for Fianna Fail - it is simply a question of determining who comes lower down the list of transfer preferences...barely reformed two faced Provo terrorists, utterly debased, incompetent and lying Greens, the David Begg/Jack O Connor Labour party with its public sector aristocrats, or the incompetent and corrupted rump of the Fianna Fail mafia that have driven this country into the ground.

    However, Fine Gael are at least better than the above and stand at least a 50-50 chance of doing a better job than Fianna Fail. Worst case scenario, they will do about the same. They simply cannot do worse. It is just not possible when one considers Frank Fahey is one of the financial and economic wizkids of FF.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Sand wrote: »
    Look, Fianna Fail have to lose the next election - thats just a basic requirement of the view that we have a republic here, where the people hold their government to account for its failure. The "Ah shure the opposition are no better!" argument only holds so long as it is probable that the opposition can do a worse job than Fianna Fail.


    Yes you are quite right but I as bad as FF are, FG and defiantly labour would be worse, in my opinion at least. The flip side of the "ah sure they other lot are no better" argument is the "ah sure they couldn't be any worse" argument with is equally as flawed.

    As I said in my post, vote against FF simply because they have failed is nto the way to go. I do not reward failure and I think it should be punished but I also think that voting against a party without properly reason is a folly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Why are we even bothering with these votes of no confidence?
    They just seem like a waste of time, nothing ever happens, and on we go.
    My cat would probably be a more effective leader. (don't ask why I think that, but at least she exudes an air of intelligence, if nothing else!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,778 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Sand wrote: »
    Look, Fianna Fail have to lose the next election - thats just a basic requirement of the view that we have a republic here, where the people hold their government to account for its failure. The "Ah shure the opposition are no better!" argument only holds so long as it is probable that the opposition can do a worse job than Fianna Fail.

    I would vote FF in an election tomorrow, FG and Labour are not a credible alternative at the moment, perhaps if they put forward some coherent policy instead of sitting on the fence ahead of any election, they could change my mind, but at the moment they just criticise everything and refuse to put forward any viable alternative policy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    We need a stable, competent government, which cannot come from a fractured, splintered party.

    A big +1 to that very simple requirement.

    As somebody with a histotically deep antipathy to all things Fianna Fail I too would be reluctant to contemplate an Opposition formed Government.

    As I see things,we currently have a Government which has been caught-out.

    The current cabinet represent the very worst of the "schoolboy caught with his hand in the sweet jar" ethos and each day`1s revelations about expenses,golf-trips and crazed decision making reinforces that.

    However,to speak of "getting them out" is to offer these reprobates an easy-out route,which would allow many of them to fade into the wings clutching their pension papers in their grubby little hands.

    NO,NNO,a thousand times NO !.....The way forward is for us all (The People) to demand a level of performance from these,largely medicore,public representatives.

    This CAN be achieved,but only if we,The People,shake ourselves out of our traditional political lethargy and adopt a proactive stance towards our governance....."GET AN INTEREST".

    Put your local TD`s home-page on your favorites list and check it regularly.
    If you see the muppet talking utter ballcocks,(on YOUR behalf)then e-mail him/her and give vent to YOUR opinions.

    We need to get comfortable with the reality of the Democratic process and realize that the TD represents US and THEY need to be reminded of that reality too :D

    The Recession/Depression is by now well underway and we are all well aware of the cast of characters.

    However ,calling for Seanie Fitzpatricks head on a pike or the tarring and feathering of Michael Fingleton will serve little actual purpose as long as our senior Public Representatives manage to stay in the background.

    We need to start thinking for ourselves and listening to voices of reason such as the new Governor of the Central Bank who has been speaking a lot of clearly thought-out logic in recent days.

    Get a Life-Get an Interest !!!!


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    82 + 77 = 159 add 3 bye elections = 162 anyone know where the other 4 votes belong to?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    The only thing that might bring down the government is the fact that more than one FFér looks a few spare ribs away from a heart attack...

    Our politics in Ireland is full of people incapable of bringing the kind of massive, systemic reform we would need to provide a state that actually works... One that can measure things, and take measured decisions, and implement policy well.

    A country that couldn't tell you how many schoolkids sit in prefabs, if a baby is dead or alive or give you joined-up thinking in means testing for benefits and taxation... The list goes on, of course, of the systemic failures of our state.

    Name me the political party that would bring in the kind of bread and butter management reform we need to make this country work?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭miseeire


    What has the island of saints and scholars done to deserve the politicians,the government and the voters that inhabit this island today?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    miseeire wrote: »
    What has the island of saints and scholars done to deserve the politicians,the government and the voters that inhabit this island today?

    Nothing ... for decades ...


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    I just hope the IMF are watching as something needs to be done and quickly. How much longer can the goverment carry on burying their heads in the sand and saying "it was the lehmann bro's...but we are turning a corner" i personally dont care who the next leader is but we CANNOT allow this current crop to continue and ignore the facts...FF are bankrupt both financially and morally but still they sit and do nothing.


Advertisement