HIV / Hepatitis in Gardai

Delancey

Below taken from RTE website today - are the judges comments aimed at perceived ' inflated ' compensation claims I wonder ?



Gardaí need better education about diseases

Tuesday, 15 June 2010 19:42
A High Court judge has ruled that there is a lack of knowledge among members of An Garda Síochána about how HIV, Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C are transmitted.

Ms Justice Mary Irvine has said gardaí appearing before her, seeking compensation for being put at risk of these diseases had a significantly inflated view as to their potential risk of catching the diseases.
The Judge said this was notwithstanding the education programme available to them.
Ms Justice Irvine made her comments in a judgment on three test cases relating to so called 'fear of disease' claims.

In each case the garda was bitten or spat on and had been afraid of contracting HIV or Hepatitis B or C.
Judge Irvine ruled that the gardaí suffered a recognisable psychiatric condition due to a fear they might contract a virus as a result of a malicious assault.
The judge said the court had heard the risk of being killed driving was very much greater than the risk of contracting HIV or Hepatitis C after an assault.
The three gardaí were each awarded compensation by Ms Justice Irvine of €6,000, €7000 and €15,000.
However, Judge Mary Irvine said that if accurate information and adequate reassurance could be provided to gardaí as to the true nature of the diseases, the Minister for Justice should not be faced with claims for compensation based on a fear of contracting them.
Ms Justice Irvine also found that the knowledge of GPs in relation to Hepatitis B and C and HIV may still be significantly less than that of specialist consultants.
She said that in some instances unnecessary testing for the viruses was carried out in circumstances where the garda's risk of contracting them was zero.
In another case she said one of the gardaí was unnecessarily advised not to participate in contact sports.
Ms Justice Mary Irvine urged solicitors to consider that the health and welfare of gardaí may become compromised in the pursuit of evidence necessary to claim compensation.

Tango November.

I think there should be a course for each ES because at RTC's the could be blood and with people working around cars and even in the cars and things can pass quickly...!

I was doing a CFR course last saturday and there as a small bit about HIV and Hepatitis.

Tango Alpha 51

Tango,
There is especially in the ambulance service. That's why we're all vacinated against Hep B etc. My colleagues in AGS are as well. Thats why we wear gloves to prevent the spread of same. Hygiene & Infection control is very important amongst ourselves & AGS. Even in the vols of which you are a member your taught to glove up before dealing with someone.

Tango November.

I had feeling about ye been vacinated against Hep B etc. But is there any vacintions for the fire service who would usualy be in the car with the csulty at an RTC ?

Tango November.

Tango November. wrote: »

I had feeling about ye been vacinated against Hep B etc. But is there any vacintions for the fire service who would usualy be in the car with the csulty at an RTC ?

I'm guessing that there is. My mother, who is not a member of any ES but works for the council, has had them.

Also, I wonder how the judge would feel if they were at risk of coming into contact with somebody who was infected? Not much risk 10 feet away up on the bench.

Paulzx

DFB get vaccinations against Hep A and Hep B as well as tetnus.


I'd like to invite Judge Irvine to go and pick a random junkie from the streets of Dublin. Then allow said junkie to spit/vomit/bleed into her eyes.

I would then like her to tell me truthfully that she has no worries about being infected with any disease.

The reality is that irrespective of statistics anyone that is exposed to this situation faces 6-12 months of huge uncertainty. During this time they will be unable to have unprotected sex with their partner due to the fear of the unknown.

Huge pressure will be put on relationships and the life cost hugely outweighs any form of monetry compensation.

I know collegues that have been through this scenario. The psychological effect was huge. They neither sought or received compensation.

Feck your 15 grand Justice Irvine and put yourself in the place of the affected people.

Zambia

+ 1

A junkie bit me on the hand once. That was a long 6 months and I tend not to stress over these things.

However what I would like to see is the amount paid out being deducted form the offender. Even if its €5 a week till the debt is paid.

MagicSean

It's the biggest fear I have in the job. I can recover from a beating but not from hiv.

celticbest

If somebody knowingly has an infection of some kind and attacks anyone there should be a mandatory life sentence even if the infection is not passed on as the intent was there.

johnnyskeleton

Garda compensation cases are not assessed on the same basis as ordinary personal injuries cases, they are unofficially a way of recognising the risks of the job. As such, the compensation for Gardai probably wouldn't be affected by a training course.

That said, whatever about being bitten (which, if it breaks the skin could transmit HIV/Hep C) being spat on is a bit ridiculous. After all, how do you know that someone with HIV/Hep C hasn't spat in your sandwich, or on the coins you handle just before you eat the sandwich.

IMO, the standard should have been more similar to general legal principles - compensation should only be awarded where there was a reasonable aprehension of the risk.

foreign wrote: »

Also, I wonder how the judge would feel if they were at risk of coming into contact with somebody who was infected? Not much risk 10 feet away up on the bench.

1) judges were lawyers before they became judges, and junkies can attack their lawyers just as easily as they can attack gardai

2) despite reservations about the reality of the fear, she nevertheless granted compensation

3) if a junkie stabs you with a needle you could reasonably believe that there is a risk of contracting HIV. If a junkie spits on you, it is not reasonable to believe you might get aids from that.

johnnyskeleton

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That said, whatever about being bitten (which, if it breaks the skin could transmit HIV/Hep C) being spat on is a bit ridiculous. After all, how do you know that someone with HIV/Hep C hasn't spat in your sandwich, or on the coins you handle just before you eat the sandwich.

Would you have a sandwich made up for you by somebody who is an obvious junkie?

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

if a junkie stabs you with a needle you could reasonably believe that there is a risk of contracting HIV. If a junkie spits on you, it is not reasonable to believe you might get aids from that.

I'll get an infected junkie to spit in your eyes / mouth and then you can tell me how apprehensive you feel then.

Sitric

If someone spat at me i'd be disgusted but not that worried. If someone came at me with a needle I would consider my life to be in danger. I think the judge's point was that the fear of infection was real in these cases but it was irrational fear.

johnnyskeleton

foreign wrote: »

Would you have a sandwich made up for you by somebody who is an obvious junkie?

You wouldn't know who is involved in food processing along the way or in the kitchen of a quality establishment, and junkies are not the only people who carry these viruses.

foreign wrote: »

I'll get an infected junkie to spit in your eyes / mouth and then you can tell me how apprehensive you feel then.

Please don't. But even still, there is no risk of contracting HIV from saliva, and little chance of contracting Hep C from it. That's not to say it isn't disgusting, but it is not a great cause for alarm either.

Sitric wrote: »

If someone spat at me i'd be disgusted but not that worried. If someone came at me with a needle I would consider my life to be in danger. I think the judge's point was that the fear of infection was real in these cases but it was irrational fear.

Exactly, which is noteworthy because in ordinary negligence claims compensation is only available where the fear was rational and reasonable (Fletcher v Commissioner for Public Works [2003] 1 IR 465).

Turner

Many junkies when they do decide to spit at Gardai or Prison officers plan their attack.

It is not uncommon for them to suck blood from their toothless decaying infected gangrenous gums to spit at their intended targets.

If most people were to suck their gums nothing would come out, junkies know they can get blood from their gums by sucking hard.

They normally do this when handcuffed as it its their only method of attack.

Its not like somebody from a Colgate add spitting in your face. Trust me when it happens it is truly disgusting!!

johnnyskeleton

Chief--- wrote: »

Many junkies when they do decide to spit at Gardai or Prison officers plan their attack.

It is not uncommon for them to suck blood from their toothless decaying infected gangrenous gums to spit at their intended targets.

If most people were to suck their gums nothing would come out, junkies know they can get blood from their gums by sucking hard.

They normally do this when handcuffed as it its their only method of attack.

Its not like somebody from a Colgate add spitting in your face. Trust me when it happens it is truly disgusting!!

Is that what happened in those cases? The newspaper suggests that it was just spit. If it was, it makes the judge's words seem strange.

Turner

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Is that what happened in those cases? The newspaper suggests that it was just spit. If it was, it makes the judge's words seem strange.

Im not sure, thats just my experiences where ive been spat at.

Anyway im sure the people concerned didnt take samples off their face and get it analysed.

People working in the private sector in labs have the following in case of eye contamination.


I wonder if the Gardai will ever introduce these into custody areas?? Hah :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Chief---

Chief--- wrote: »

Im not sure, thats just my experiences where ive been spat at.

Anyway im sure the people concerned didnt take samples off their face and get it analysed.

People working in the private sector in labs have the following in case of eye contamination.


I wonder if the Gardai will ever introduce these into custody areas?? Hah :rolleyes::rolleyes:

We're lucky to have the gel to wash our hands!

Delancey

Chief--- wrote: »

Im not sure, thats just my experiences where ive been spat at.

Anyway im sure the people concerned didnt take samples off their face and get it analysed.

People working in the private sector in labs have the following in case of eye contamination.


I wonder if the Gardai will ever introduce these into custody areas?? Hah :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not trying to sound clever or anything but would Garda mangement even know of the existence of such a device unless it was actually brought to their attention ? I have to admit I have never known about these washers - they look to be a great idea.

Hooch

foreign wrote: »

We're lucky to have the gel to wash our hands!

Ye have gel in Dublin:eek::eek::eek:

We still use spuds cut in half!!!

deadwood

foreign wrote: »

We're lucky to have the gel to wash our hands!

It's for washing? That might explain a few things.

dermot_sheehan

the judgement in question

Martini88

Does anybody know if you can join AGS if you have chronic Hep B? Surely its the same as being immunized against it and you haven't the fear of catching it from junkies?

kub

Paulzx wrote: »

DFB get vaccinations against Hep A and Hep B as well as tetnus.


I'd like to invite Judge Irvine to go and pick a random junkie from the streets of Dublin. Then allow said junkie to spit/vomit/bleed into her eyes.

I would then like her to tell me truthfully that she has no worries about being infected with any disease.


With total respect to the judges in this country of ours, I realise they have responsible jobs.
I have a feeling though that the vast majority of them live in a differnet society to the rest of us.
I mean do any of you guys know of a time whereby a Judge, requested or has actually gotten into the back of a squad car to witness at first hand the crap you guys have to put up with.
Now if any of them have then they have my respect, other than that, they might as well be in fairyland.

johnnyskeleton

kub wrote: »

Paulzx wrote: »

DFB get vaccinations against Hep A and Hep B as well as tetnus.


I'd like to invite Judge Irvine to go and pick a random junkie from the streets of Dublin. Then allow said junkie to spit/vomit/bleed into her eyes.

I would then like her to tell me truthfully that she has no worries about being infected with any disease.

With total respect to the judges in this country of ours, I realise they have responsible jobs.
I have a feeling though that the vast majority of them live in a differnet society to the rest of us.
I mean do any of you guys know of a time whereby a Judge, requested or has actually gotten into the back of a squad car to witness at first hand the crap you guys have to put up with.
Now if any of them have then they have my respect, other than that, they might as well be in fairyland.

All judges were lawyers beforehand, and many will have been criminal lawyers. So they go down into the cells or into the prison vans, be attacked, be threatened, be spat on etc.

Undoubtedly to a far lesser extent than gardai will have to put up with as they will never be kicking down doors and so forth, but still, I find the view that is common among those who have no experience of the criminal justice system whatsoever that judges are divorced from the reality of it is slightly ridiculous at best.

Delancey

Martini88 wrote: »

Does anybody know if you can join AGS if you have chronic Hep B? Surely its the same as being immunized against it and you haven't the fear of catching it from junkies?

I doubt very much that anyone could join the Gardai with such a serious condition.
While its true that they couldn't catch it as they already have it the health implications are significant and I just can't see someone being passed as fit in these circumstances.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on this.