Smart Meter Rollout

Heroditas

The CER released a paper on Friday outlining the Smart Meter rollout - in terms of strategic objectives and also functionality.

The reason I'm posting this is because the CER are welcoming replies from the general public so it's a great opportunity for people to have a read through what is being proposed and to give their own opinions.

The link for the paper and overview is HERE

I've read through some of it and it's fairly comprehensive.
I'd think the EU Electricity Directive stating that states that find the feasibility studies are positive must have customers installed with intelligent meters by 2020 is quite a challenging target.

Macha

It looks quite good.

They should scrap the In-home displays - too much embodied energy etc and just do it through a web application.

Plus demand management capabilities should be incorporated into any device that's rolled out. The consumer response to the data being made available is only about a 10-20% reduction in usage.

And standardisation of data, data management systems etc is absolutely key so we don't build ourselves into a cul-de-sac.

Heroditas

taconnol wrote: »

They should scrap the In-home displays - too much embodied energy etc and just do it through a web application.

Certainly, most of the supply companies have their own web applications, e.g. ESB with "Energy Extra" for their business customers.
However, a key part of the trial is to examine if behaviour will be affected by implementing these in-home displays. It's also important for time-of-use tariffs.
People are not as inclined to log on to look at their energy usage but if it's on a display in front of them, they will pay more heed.

taconnol wrote: »

Plus demand management capabilities should be incorporated into any device that's rolled out. The consumer response to the data being made available is only about a 10-20% reduction in usage.

"ONLY" 10-20%? That's a colossal figure.
The smart meter trial will be a resounding success if even a 10% reduction is achieved within the various control groups.
Even if they manage to flatten the peak load, it will be a good start.

Macha

Heroditas wrote: »

Certainly, most of the supply companies have their own web applications, e.g. ESB with "Energy Extra" for their business customers.
However, a key part of the trial is to examine if behaviour will be affected by implementing these in-home displays. It's also important for time-of-use tariffs.
People are not as inclined to log on to look at their energy usage but if it's on a display in front of them, they will pay more heed.

True, but I just can't imagine people going over to stare at their IHD at regular intervals during the day. Maybe at the beginning but I'm sure the novelty will wear off.

It would be much better to have demand management programming features built in so the consumer can say "OK, if the price/kwh goes above Xc then leave the dish washer to come on later etc. Then you don't have to worry about people manually checking it and the whole thing can be automated and left to web applications.

Heroditas wrote: »

"ONLY" 10-20%? That's a colossal figure.
The smart meter trial will be a resounding success if even a 10% reduction is achieved within the various control groups.
Even if they manage to flatten the peak load, it will be a good start.

Yes, I suppose it's not bad but in terms of the potential demand reduction and management of smart meters, I don't think it's very big.

For example, CoolPower have a type of smart meter called EMMA that can almost completely level out the entire load of a single dwelling unit over 24 hours. Imagine the enormous savings in generation construction that could be saved if demand management could be properly incorporated into smart meters.

So it's not just about overall demand reduction, it's also about load levelling, which will be much better served by automated demand management than humans looking at a LCD - in my opinion.

Heroditas

taconnol wrote: »

It would be much better to have demand management programming features built in so the consumer can say "OK, if the price/kwh goes above Xc then leave the dish washer to come on later etc. Then you don't have to worry about people manually checking it and the whole thing can be automated and left to web applications.

For example, CoolPower have a type of smart meter called EMMA that can almost completely level out the entire load of a single dwelling unit over 24 hours. Imagine the enormous savings in generation construction that could be saved if demand management could be properly incorporated into smart meters.

I think these two points go together.
A fully integrated household system like this would be great, i.e. one that controls the appliances for you by looking at the cost/time of day.

Certainly I'd prefer that to the prospect of the supply company sending signals to my home switching off the dishwasher or tumble dryer when they're already operating.

Ultimately, that would be the aim - remote control of the large energy users in the home while the householder can also sell back to the grid if they have their own micro-generating facility

Macha

Heroditas wrote: »

I think these two points go together.
A fully integrated household system like this would be great, i.e. one that controls the appliances for you by looking at the cost/time of day.

Yeah it would be good if you could set up such a system for all your utilities - gas, electricity water, etc.

Heroditas wrote: »

Certainly I'd prefer that to the prospect of the supply company sending signals to my home switching off the dishwasher or tumble dryer when they're already operating.

Oh yes, I don't think energy suppliers should be able to do that: people should be able to have their appliances on whenever they want - but this way they pay the extra costs of using electricity during times peak demand. It's basically creating a more accurate pricing signal for consumers that better reflects the generation costs.

Heroditas wrote: »

Ultimately, that would be the aim - remote control of the large energy users in the home while the householder can also sell back to the grid if they have their own micro-generating facility

Yep or microstorage via an electric vehicle.

Macha

For anyone interested in an overview of the Smart Grid concept, you could do worse than watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFBN8KbpCdU

Cookie_Monster

Will these meters allow for a "plug and play" type feed in. Say if I put PV on the roof or a small turbine, etc can you simply plug it in and go, or will there still be a more complex setup and feed in infrastructure needed?

Macha

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Will these meters allow for a "plug and play" type feed in. Say if I put PV on the roof or a small turbine, etc can you simply plug it in and go, or will there still be a more complex setup and feed in infrastructure needed?

Erm..here you get into techy territory that I'm not 100% familiar with.

What is intended is to set up a Home Area Network where each relevant appliance (ie demanding electricity (fridge/oven/dishwasher) or offering electricity (wind turbine/PV) would be integrated into the network, I assume using some sort of wireless technology. Then the data from these applicances can be fed into a CPU that will then optimise the demand and supply of electricity in whatever way the occupant wants it to be

For example, you might want electricity from your PV to be used up first before you take energy off the grid or you might want to only turn on the washing machine when electricity costs go below a certain level, etc.

banshee_bones

From recently interviewing someone at CER for my Msc thesis, what I got from this scheme was that it was largely to raise awareness of how much people are using and at what times of day and to help change the behavioural aspects behind it? With people being charged extra between 4pm and 6pm it seems they want to help shift away from excess demand between these hours. Also said that this would only be rolled out nationally if the trial proved cost effective.

Personally I think it would be a good scheme to bring in as alot of people arent aware that a) they are being charged more between 4pm and 6pm and b) how much they use and where they can decrease un-necessary usage.

Heroditas

banshee_bones wrote: »

Personally I think it would be a good scheme to bring in as alot of people arent aware that a) they are being charged more between 4pm and 6pm

Domestic users technically aren't charged more for using between 5pm and 7pm though (peak is 5-7, not 4-6) because they are, at the moment, shielded from this cost.
Domestic users are typically on a 24hr or a day/night tariff.

Commercial users suffer most from the peak hours through the winter peak demand charges.

Of course, the cost of generating electricity varies throughout the day but for all intents and purposes, people will not pay a kWh price based on the hourly cost.
Large users can get a contract drawn up based on their "profile" of usage.
However, that is something completely different and I'd rather not go into it at 11:30 on a Thursday night!

Cookie_Monster

Heroditas wrote: »

Commercial users suffer most from the peak hours through the winter peak demand charges.

while that maybe true commercial user pay a lot less anyway than domestic anyway don't they?

Large scale industrial sites pay a fraction of the cost of domestic per unit.

Heroditas

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

while that maybe true commercial user pay a lot less anyway than domestic anyway don't they?

Large scale industrial sites pay a fraction of the cost of domestic per unit.

Indeed they do!
Lump in the TUOS and DUOS charges, capacity payments, electricity tax, operator charges as well and their AUP is still less than domestic users