Redevelopment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh

Deedsie

Hi, I was hoping we could set up a thread for information, articles and pictures of the redevelopment project, similar to the one for Landsdowne Road. The Páirc is in bad need of redevelopment. I cant wait till its done.

BluntGuy

This was meant to go ahead with the whole Cork Docklands regeneration as far as I remember. I think that's been effectively scrapped.

However, this scheme for which the figures I've seen range from €30-50 million, might just be doable.

Is there any place more information can be sourced?

Deedsie

I could find very little information, that showed the plans? It is a shame it wont be a municipal stadium. The Irish teams could and should play occasionally in Cork.

Zubeneschamali

Green light for Pairc Ui Chaoimh overhaul as city agrees land sale

Son of Stupido

GAA website is saying 60,000 so there is a conflict.

From doing a bit of searching, It appears that they are proposing to build a two-tier main stand (c.20,000 seats) with all the facilities for the players etc and converting the rest of the arena to seats. This would bring capacity up to c. 50,000 IFAIK. If they were to put an extra tier on the other side it would be 60,000, perhaps the original plan talked about a few years ago

I can't find any drawings or a planning application, so if anyone has a link it would be good!

Typewriter

Bully tactics by the GAA to build an unnecessary second all weather pitch bang smack in the middle of the former showgrounds will result in a divided and very compromised public park in the docklands.

The whole south docklands plan will have to be reassessed, you cant build (or sell) all those hi-rise apts without sufficient green space. Hopefully this won't get past planning as the land is zoned for public recreational use (not closed off private gaa only) and it will impact on the EIS put forward for the docklands regeneration. I really hope the former owners of the showgrounds site take legal action as this land was CPO'd for the park not the Páirc.



Good thread on this here,

Idiot thread from the idiot forum PROC thread here ...but contains this fantastic post by mire

I think the CB are going about this the wrong way. By linking the redevelopment of Pairc Ui Caoimh and the Centre of Excellence together they risk both projects which do not necessarily need to be delivered on the same site. In fact, I am of the opinion that the GAA and the City would be better served in having these elements in different locations. I think it is absolutely essential to have the Pairc redeveloped on the existing site, as it is an absolutely fantastic location for a stadium, close to the city centre, facing the river, and at the edge of the future redeveloped docklands.

A redeveloped stadium, with associated uses [hotel, museum, bar/restaurants, cultural uses] will actually complement the Docklands Strategy including the objective to deliver a much needed Regional Scale park. The positioning of the training pitch however, is disastrous in terms of the impact on the planned park and will not be consistent with the objective to deliver public amenities in that location. Its location and layout means that it completely severs the overall area and creates a barrier right in the centre of the site.

I really hope the Cb don't try to blackmail the city council and throw the baby out with the bathwater on this. i have a bad feeling that the City Council's real concerns over the impact of the training pitch etc are going to be twisted around in order to push an unsatisfactory solution here that nobody should be happy with. I am also concerned about the lack of detail on the CB's plans for the redevelopment of the stadium - will it be a piecemeal half-baked job with no coherent overall design? Because, although the Pairc is currently in a shocking state, its biggest attraction as a venue is the fact that its a single structure with a single design ethos and has a cracking atmosphere as a result. this will be destroyed if all we get are four amateur-standard new stands are constructed independently [semple's biggest disadvantage is that it looks like it was built by four seperate local builders].

We shouldn't accept anything less than the best for this site. that goes for both GAA people and the general public. this reliance on stuff about what's good for the gaa is good for cork is just neanderthal. the general public should not lose out on a planned amenity because the CB simply decide to insist on a training pitch. similarly, the gaa public should not lose out on a top class stadium because the CB decide to embark on a route that favours political gesturing and power-plays rather than competent delivery of high quality sports facilities.

However, my gut feeling is that the Cork CB prefers to go down the route of Evening Echo front page politics, rolling out the Cork Mafia and will try to bully their way to a bad solution. In my opinion, this will ultimately fail [regardless of what Cork City council vote on next week] because even if the CB get their hands on the additional land required, it makes the planning and legal process much much more challenging. It is highly unlikely, for instance, that An Bord Pleanala will accept the undermining of the City Development Plan objectives, by effectively privatising a large chunk of centrally located land designated for public amenities - [cork has one of the lowest levels of green space in any western european city so this park is a huge project, bigger than a single trainig pitch]. Even if the City Council are forced to amend those specific land designations, the project may be refused on strategic grounds.

Apologies for long post - I am just sick of going to the Pairc walking through puddles and weeds, using those toilets, looking at the state of the place - and when an opportunity comes along to sort it out, the CB look like they are going to do it completely arseways.....

pajoguy

Deedsie wrote: »

I could find very little information, that showed the plans? It is a shame it wont be a municipal stadium. The Irish teams could and should play occasionally in Cork.

Since the field will be GAA size it will obviously fit a soccer/rugby pitch ala croke park. Athletics track would be a disaster for atmosphere for all other sports. So it probably be a rule 42 issue again. You might see munster taking there big games there.

Pete_Cavan

One all weather pitch is not going to be enough for a centre of excellence. Carlow GAA have got approval to develop their centre of excellence, which will include three full sized pitches (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/jobs-boost-as-carlow-gaa-plan-for-future-2182038.html).

Cork has one of the largest GAA playing populations in the country and are competitive in football, hurling, ladies football and camogie so in order to keep developing players for these teams they will not more than one pitch (the main Pairc Ui Chaoimh pitch wont be used for training in order to maintain the surface). Im sure the county board is well aware one pitch will not suffice and are only looking for this as a warm up pitch.

I can guarantee that if that all weather pitch is build in a few years Cork county board will look to develop a much bigger centre of excellence on a green field site outside the city claiming they have out grown the one at Pairc Ui Chaoimh, even though there will be no increase in playing numbers.

Redeveloping the stadium is a great idea and it should be developed as a tourist attraction, perhaps with a Cork GAA museum or something like that. A public park would be a great amenity to have beside it. Just on the issue of playing soccer/rugby here, Im sure the GAA would be more than happy to let them use it, at the right price of course.

invinciblePRSTV

I would like to see a municipal stadium developed on the site for use for by all the major team sports & concerts, but seeing as it's the CCB involved then it'll be a cold day in hell before they consider that. Plus it shows the gombeen nature of the Citys councillors who passed the plans.

BluntGuy

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/councillors-may-face-legal-action-over-gaa-vote-123311.html

Latest I could find on this.

Utterly ridiculous that the citizens of Cork City will have to lose out on a planned public park facility to facilitate the greed and sectional interest of the GAA. We do not need another 60,000 GAA stadium (especially given my doubts that this won't just be a half-assed piecemeal mess). A 40,000 all-purpose, top-class stadium would be a far better use of the site.

munchkin_utd

only have to roll in with the views here that the stadium in Cork should not be GAA only, and im coming from a GAA point of view that big f*ck off stadium projects should NOT be sucking all the cash out of the association when the cash should be instead flowing into promoting and building up grassroots GAA in the urban areas.

On the other hand, theres not really anything to argue about.
The FAI will never host a soccer game with 60000 spectators outside of Landsdowne cos their share of that stadium has to be paid for and the season ticket holders kept happy.
The IRFU are the same but different. For big rugby games and friendlys they have Landsdowne road to use for free and season ticket holders (who are paying big cash in advance) to keep happy. Not to mention that they have players wages in 4 provincial teams to pay so the more cash the better. Why rent a stadium in Cork when they have their own one lying empty in Dublin?
And for smaller games that season ticket holders wouldnt mind missing, they OWN Thomond park that is a tidy modern 25000 seater arena.
Plus, if Munster Rugby (who are simply a division of the IRFU) have a game too big for Thomond, then Landsdowne will be always be the venue seeing as Munster (aka IRFU) own it.

So to be honest.
Even if the GAA were to go mad and offered the FAI or IRFU to come in as partners they wouldnt.
They are already tied to the 2 new stadiums in Dublin and Limerick and thats the reality of the matter.

Deedsie

munchkin_utd wrote: »

only have to roll in with the views here that the stadium in Cork should not be GAA only, and im coming from a GAA point of view that big f*ck off stadium projects should NOT be sucking all the cash out of the association when the cash should be instead flowing into promoting and building up grassroots GAA in the urban areas.

On the other hand, theres not really anything to argue about.
The FAI will never host a soccer game with 60000 spectators outside of Landsdowne cos their share of that stadium has to be paid for and the season ticket holders kept happy.
The IRFU are the same but different. For big rugby games and friendlys they have Landsdowne road to use for free and season ticket holders (who are paying big cash in advance) to keep happy. Not to mention that they have players wages in 4 provincial teams to pay so the more cash the better. Why rent a stadium in Cork when they have their own one lying empty in Dublin?
And for smaller games that season ticket holders wouldnt mind missing, they OWN Thomond park that is a tidy modern 25000 seater arena.
Plus, if Munster Rugby (who are simply a division of the IRFU) have a game too big for Thomond, then Landsdowne will be always be the venue seeing as Munster (aka IRFU) own it.

So to be honest.
Even if the GAA were to go mad and offered the FAI or IRFU to come in as partners they wouldnt.
They are already tied to the 2 new stadiums in Dublin and Limerick and thats the reality of the matter.

It would be great PR if they at least approached the IRFU and the FAI on the matter. I'm a GAA supporter first and foremost, I think the best way to get a foothold in the urban areas is to be in some way accommodating to other sports.

BluntGuy

Deedsie wrote: »

It would be great PR if they at least approached the IRFU and the FAI on the matter. I'm a GAA supporter first and foremost, I think the best way to get a foothold in the urban areas is to be in some way accommodating to other sports.

It's about fairness too.

The GAA were offered other reasonable alternatives to accomodate their demand such as relocating the training pitch to another location which would've worked just as well. They weren't open for negociation. They weren't open to listen to suggestions of "foreign games". They wanted everything and gave nothing in return. I think that is what bothers me the most about this. That kind of attitude is terrible for the GAA and terrible for everyone who has an interest in sport. We are a small country and we need to make the best use of our facilities possible. Yes, it probably wouldn't get THAT many major rugby and soccer matches, but what about for local use? Not to mention 60,000 IS far too big regardless. Where is the demand magically going to come from. Look how "full" Croker is on most match days. A smaller, tighter revamp with less capacity but better quality facilities would be a much better use than the half-assed one I fear they may end up doing.

I want to be excited about this proposal, and when I first heard about it, I was intrigued. Looking into it more and seeing the bullying tactics that have been used to get it leaves me ashamed. And seeing how people can so easily get behind these bully boy tactics (not on this forum of course) and vehemently attack people who offer a different view offers a stark reminder that politicians aren't the only cause of our problems in this country.

Jayuu

While not commenting on the specifics of this project I'm not really in favour of combined GAA, FAI and IRFU stadia. The length of the GAA pitch is much longer compared to the other two. What that means is that football and rugby games are far less enjoyable to fans if they end up at one end of the ground.

I attended a number of Ireland football qualifying matches in Croke Park and was in the far end of the ground (Nally Stand??) for most of them. It was the most frustrating thing. When play was at the far end of the pitch you couldn't really see anything at all. I would have been far better to stay at home.

Deedsie

Has there been any progress on this?

dowlingm

The CCB won't be happy until not only they've bulldozed the Council into their whims for the Pairc but also been given for no bobs Musgrave Park and Turners Cross.

No, Frank, we haven't forgotten your grab of Flower Lodge. My old man played on it when young and he said it was the best playing surface in Cork.

AugustusMinimus

dowlingm wrote: »

The CCB won't be happy until not only they've bulldozed the Council into their whims for the Pairc but also been given for no bobs Musgrave Park and Turners Cross.

No, Frank, we haven't forgotten your grab of Flower Lodge. My old man played on it when young and he said it was the best playing surface in Cork.

It wasn't the GAA's fault that soccer clubs in Cork kept going bankrupt.

Did the GAA force the Ancient Order of Hibernians to sell them the ground ?

Am I missing something here ?

AugustusMinimus

Pair Ui Chaoimh needs serious restructuring. The spacing for leg room on each step of the stadium needs to be completely changed. There simply isn't enough room as it is.

With the new seats that were installed, you are literally kneeing people in the back of the head who are in front of you.