"Catholic" Girlfriend

LegacyUser

Hi,
I know religion is always a touchy subject so this is a little awkward.

Basically my new girlfriend is American. She's told me she was from a big Irish catholic family in the States. What bothers me a little is what that means?

I was born and raised an Irish Roman Catholic. I'm not a very religious person, it was never forced down my throat after my confirmation and so I don't really go to mass or anything regularly but if asked I'd probably say thats what I am and not an atheist or anything else.

So I thought nothing in regards to her being from the same. However in America since they tend to do the whole Sunday school and catholic school thing it isn't really the same as here.

I know she likes to go to Mass, and I know she's been involved in some charity things and meetups and she's been involved in some Catholic Groups back home. She goes to Mass but she never really talks about it much to me, just the occasional thing if something was on. Doesn't ever discuss religion with me in that way but I guess I know she would with some of her friends as she's met some through these charity events or groups or whatever.

I know it's not the same as most Irish Catholic girls in Ireland but I kinda thought it was fine. No harm, she goes to Mass and gets involved in some charity stuff here and there and so on. I thought fair play, thats a pretty good thing. However my friends seem to view it as her being "one of those religious nuts".

I'm not sure what to think now, I don't see any harm in what she does, some of it is admirable, charity groups and all that. She's not an evangelist or something, she doesn't preach or have any extreme views, she's totally normal and good craic. None of this has ever been forced on me, infact if anything it's her own interest and doesn't care if I'm as religious as that or not, so far.

What do people think?

prinz

IrlUS wrote: »

I'm not sure what to think now, I don't see any harm in what she does, some of it is admirable, charity groups and all that. She's not an evangelist or something, she doesn't preach or have any extreme views, she's totally normal and good craic. None of this has ever been forced on me, infact if anything it's her own interest and doesn't care if I'm as religious as that or not, so far.

To hell with your friends, you seem happy enough with her and that's all that matters. They will get over it when they get to know the girl a bit better and get over their own prejudices. Enjoy! tbh I could have posted what you said about 5 years ago. We're married now and I wouldn't trade her for the world. It didn't take vast majority of friends long to see in her what I saw. There may well be a few prats who won't drop it though.

Sanjuro

Hey OP. Interesting issue, and one I had to deal with myself. I went out with a girl who was a staunch Catholic, and came from a very conservative background. Myself, I wouldn't call myself an Atheist, as I think it pigeon-holes what I think too much, but suffice to say, I don't believe in God or any religion and what not. I'm pretty 'liberal' in my views on life. Anyway, I was quite happy for her to be a Catholic. I'm not here to enforce my beliefs (or lack thereof) on anybody else.

However, she seemed to think one of the things she should be trying to do was convert me. Not in any overt manner, but she'd quite often ask me why I didn't go to mass. Would I consider going to mass. She couldn't understand why I didn't believe in religion and so on. Things came to a head when we started to get intimate. We hadn't even gone the whole nine yards when she would burst into tears and blame Catholic guilt. To me, this was a step too far, and that (as well as other issues that are irrellevant to this discussion) eventually led me to end the relationship. I'm not saying she was a fanatic. She wasn't. But our beliefs were just incompatible and encroached on our relationship.

If your girlfriend is a Catholic, and not a militant one, I don't see why it should have any affect on your relationship. She doesn't seem to force the issue upon you, so what's the harm? To be honest, I'd be more concerned with your friends' views of her. You stated yourself, you're happy in the relationship, and it's not really an issue for you. So why let your friends ruin things? Bottom line is, there's two of you in the relationship. If neither of you have a problem with what you believe, that's all that matters. Don't throw something away just because your friends inaccurately label her a religious fanatic.

Contessa Raven

IrlUS wrote: »

I don't see any harm in what she does

she's totally normal and good craic.

What do people think?

Well, tbh I think this sums it up perfectly. You don't have a problem with it so why should they? Can you not tell your friends what you've said here?

I think people hear the word religious and it gets their backs up. It makes them uncomfortable expecially people who aren't religious at all. There are extreme views on either side of the fence but non-religious people tend to forget that there are all different levels in between and the majority of the religious population sit somewhere in the middle of the two.

If I were you OP I would just see where the relationship goes. She seems like a normal person with her own personal views. Unless she's pushing you into things then I wouldn't worry about what your friends think.

CR

Ickle Magoo

So she is religious but does not shout about it or push it on to you? What's the issue then? Why do your friends think she's a religious nut if she only speaks about and does religion in her own time? If they are just using what you've told them to say that then just ignore them. Lots of couples I know have one partner more religious than the other, it sometimes takes a bit of compromise from time to time - especially when sex/living together/marriage/kids are on the cards - but in general they seem to work very well.

As long as you are comfortable and not feeling unduly coerced or preached at then just enjoy, until it starts affecting aspect of your life or your relationship then it's no different to any other interest/hobby.

Rosita

IrlUS wrote: »

Hi,
I know religion is always a touchy subject so this is a little awkward.

Basically my new girlfriend is American. She's told me she was from a big Irish catholic family in the States. What bothers me a little is what that means?

I was born and raised an Irish Roman Catholic. I'm not a very religious person, it was never forced down my throat after my confirmation and so I don't really go to mass or anything regularly but if asked I'd probably say thats what I am and not an atheist or anything else.

So I thought nothing in regards to her being from the same. However in America since they tend to do the whole Sunday school and catholic school thing it isn't really the same as here.

I know she likes to go to Mass, and I know she's been involved in some charity things and meetups and she's been involved in some Catholic Groups back home. She goes to Mass but she never really talks about it much to me, just the occasional thing if something was on. Doesn't ever discuss religion with me in that way but I guess I know she would with some of her friends as she's met some through these charity events or groups or whatever.

I know it's not the same as most Irish Catholic girls in Ireland but I kinda thought it was fine. No harm, she goes to Mass and gets involved in some charity stuff here and there and so on. I thought fair play, thats a pretty good thing. However my friends seem to view it as her being "one of those religious nuts".

I'm not sure what to think now, I don't see any harm in what she does, some of it is admirable, charity groups and all that. She's not an evangelist or something, she doesn't preach or have any extreme views, she's totally normal and good craic. None of this has ever been forced on me, infact if anything it's her own interest and doesn't care if I'm as religious as that or not, so far.

What do people think?

If she says she's from a big Irish Catholic family maybe she means just that - that she's from a big Irish Catholic family. I'm from an Irish Catholic family and I can assure you it's not a secret cult. We don't put in or out on anybody, nor did any of us to the best of my knowledge ram any religious views down anyone else's throat.

Broadly speaking I would say it means that the family is a practising Catholic family rather than the Ku Klux Klan by another name. You need to remember that the USA is one of the most heterogenous societies in the world. This is a country that has had just one Catholic President in its history. Saying you are a Catholic over there likely to be a simple matter of description.

In fact in my experience it tends to be atheists and irreligious people who ram their views down everyone's throat far more than members of an religion as by definition they tend to have quiet strong opinions having decided to opt out. Just check out the incredible interest atheists have in the religious discussions around here.

But it seems to me that you are meeting hassle more than half-way. You say - "She's not an evangelist or something, she doesn't preach or have any extreme views, she's totally normal and good craic. She goes to Mass but she never really talks about it much to me. Doesn't ever discuss religion with me in that way."

Reading these comments it's hard to see what exactly prompted you to post here. She's not exactly full-on with the religion is she? She seems like a very reasonable lady if you ask me.

fatmammycat

"Myself, I wouldn't call myself an Atheist, as I think it pigeon-holes what I think too much, but suffice to say, I don't believe in God or any religion and what not."

Hate to break it to you, but if you don't believe in god you are by default an atheist. That's all being an atheist means. Non belief in a god or gods.

OP, if you like this girl and she's nice and fun to be with why the hell would you care what any of your friends think?

Sanjuro

fatmammycat wrote: »

"Myself, I wouldn't call myself an Atheist, as I think it pigeon-holes what I think too much, but suffice to say, I don't believe in God or any religion and what not."

Hate to break it to you, but if you don't believe in god you are by default an atheist. That's all being an atheist means. Non belief in a god or gods.

Well this is neither the place for symantics nor religion, but I'll just say that my 'beliefs' don't just boil down to 'god or no god.' I'm perfectly aware of what the definition of atheist is.

Calibos

Ok then, you're agnostic with regard to a deistic non interventionist creator of the universe but atheistic with regard to all man made religions. I don't think atheist perfectly conveys my beliefs on the matter either but when most people think agnostic is just another religion never mind don't know what strong or weak atheism is, well I think while atheist doesn't exactly describe me at least it conveys a non belief in grey bearded sky daddies. I am not scared of using the word just because some religious nut jobs think it means I am a baby eating satan worshipper.

Rosita

Calibos wrote: »

Ok then, you're agnostic with regard to a deistic non interventionist creator of the universe but atheistic with regard to all man made religions. I don't think atheist perfectly conveys my beliefs on the matter either but when most people think agnostic is just another religion never mind don't know what strong or weak atheism is, well I think while atheist doesn't exactly describe me at least it conveys a non belief in grey bearded sky daddies. I am not scared of using the word just because some religious nut jobs think it means I am a baby eating satan worshipper.

Atheism is by definition a disbelief in the existence of a God or Gods. You either are one or you're not - man-made religions don't come into it.
Why complicate it?

Handsome Bob

It sounds like your friends have absolutely no valid reason to be calling your girlfriend a religious nut. She doesn't force her beliefs on you so I assume she doesn't do it to your friends. She's also contributing to society in a positive way through charity. Really, I am perplexed as to what the problem is. Your friends sound like the kind of people who think it's "hip" to insult religious people for no reason other than they believe in a god. If I was you I would tell them to get real and grow up.

Ickle Magoo

Rosita wrote: »

Atheism is by definition a disbelief in the existence of a God or Gods. You either are one or you're not - man-made religions don't come into it.
Why complicate it?

Well, just to be pedantic, no, that's not technically correct either. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a disbelief. It's not a denial of god/s existence, rather that no god/s exists to believe in. Nowadays you get everything from anti-theistic to theistic atheists so it's a pretty huge pigeon hole.

Anyway...

LZ5by5 wrote:

She doesn't force her beliefs on you so I assume she doesn't do it to your friends.

If that assumption is true then I agree it's absolutely a non-issue. Why would his friends even know she was religious? Did the OP tell them about it? It seems to be more an issue with the OP than his girlfriend or friends....

Handsome Bob

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

If that assumption is true then I agree it's absolutely a non-issue. Why would his friends even know she was religious? Did the OP tell them about it? It seems to be more an issue with the OP than his girlfriend or friends....

Very true, perhaps the OP has spoken of his unease about the whole thing to his friends and they have taken that as her being a fundamentalist.

Saint Ruth

IrlUS wrote: »

I know it's not the same as most Irish Catholic girls in Ireland but I kinda thought it was fine. No harm, she goes to Mass and gets involved in some charity stuff here and there and so on. I thought fair play, thats a pretty good thing. However my friends seem to view it as her being "one of those religious nuts".

...

What do people think?

So you don't care that she goes to church.

But you're friend seems to view this as meaning she's a "religious nut".

Is your friend going out with her? Who cares what he thinks...you don't need his approval to go out wiht someone

Saint Ruth

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's not a denial of god/s existence, rather that no god/s exists to believe in.

How is believing that "no god/s exist to believe in" different from "a denial of god/s existence"?

Ickle Magoo

Saint Ruth wrote: »

How is believing that "no god/s exist to believe in" different from "a denial of god/s existence"?

Are you in denial at the existence of unicorns or do you believe they don't actually exist? :cool:

Saint Ruth

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Are you in denial at the existence of unicorns or do you believe they don't actually exist? :cool:

Well, both.
I deny unicorns exist.
I believe that unicorns don't exist.

As they mean the same thing. That I don't believe in unicorns.

Ickle Magoo

If they mean the same thing then if you are ever in court, you use the old "I don't believe I did it" rather than denial and see how you get on.

Edited to add: Mods, sorry for going WAAAAAAAAY off topic.
Feel free to post over on A&A or pm me for further discussions on atheism and related terminology. :cool:

LegacyUser

Hey,
Thanks for all the replies. Most of it is pretty level headed and makes sense.

No, I haven't discussed this with my friends or said that I'm uneasy, i didn't really even notice it until they said it.

They found out she's religious when she'd throw a sentence into a conversation like "I met my friend X in a church group back home" or how she was helping a friend with a bible study but its usually just a comment in a bigger conversation which has nothing to do with religion or anything. Like I said. I thought absolutely nothing about it, she is religious and thats good for her, when I was in the USA I found out people like to identify themselves with their heritage so being both of Irish and Catholic heritage she was proud of it.

I think it was the mention of a church group or a bible study that sort of made my friends take notice. It's not something we've ever done growing up or would think about but its what she grew up with and made the decision not to drop it all when given the choice as an adult. She's not ultra strict in most ways.

They put a doubt in my head is all, I've gone out with girls before ignoring obvious signs that things wouldn't work for the sake of me wanting it to and didn't want it happening again if they were right. My friends aren't bad guys either but its more of the Irish culture I grew up in that when someone mentions mentions the bible or a church group you start to think "uh oh..." as Ireland has become much more relaxed about it. I think they just need o get used to it, in the US things are a bit more diverse and you have to get used to it.

Calibos

Rosita wrote: »

Atheism is by definition a disbelief in the existence of a God or Gods. You either are one or you're not - man-made religions don't come into it.
Why complicate it?

I know thats what atheism means, you know it, but most theists don't know it nor do people who are de facto atheists but who for whatever reason don't like the term because of the connotations or meaning other people think it has. Its not that they don't want to pigeon hole themselves as atheist because of the actual meaning of the word as you or I know it. They don't want to pigeon hole themselves as atheists because of what everyone else mistakenly thinks the word means.

I have no problem using the word because I don't live in the US where you can be ostracised in many communities or miss out on Job opportunities because of what those christians think atheism means. I have no problem with it because even my evangelical austrailian aunt knows that my atheism doesn't mean I am a baby eating satanist, doesn't mean I have no morals, she just 'knows' it means I have not accepted Jesus as my personal saviour and will go to oblivion when I die instead of at the right side of God basking in his glory. She might be worried about my eternal soul but she knows I am not evil and ironically she believes I am going to the same place when I die as I believe I am going, ie. Oblivion, non existance etc

prinz

IrlUS wrote: »

They found out she's religious when she'd throw a sentence into a conversation like "I met my friend X in a church group back home" or how she was helping a friend with a bible study but its usually just a comment in a bigger conversation which has nothing to do with religion or anything..

They'll get used to this. Just ignore. Tbh it's no stranger than meeting people in a pub when you think about it. I remember going with my OH to one of her bible study meetings years ago and didn't notice an overly religious aspect to it at all. They were discussing all sorts of things, murder, drugs, relationships etc etc. Things that a lot of my Irish friends wouldn't be at all comfortable sitting down without a skinful of booze and discussing over a meal, and that's their loss.

IrlUS wrote: »

They put a doubt in my head is all, I've gone out with girls before ignoring obvious signs that things wouldn't work for the sake of me wanting it to and didn't want it happening again if they were right...

Don't let them keep that doubt there. It's something new and strange and not many Irish have experience of. It automatically conjures up images of weirdo's and fanatics.

IrlUS wrote: »

My friends aren't bad guys either but its more of the Irish culture I grew up in that when someone mentions mentions the bible or a church group you start to think "uh oh..." as Ireland has become much more relaxed about it..

As I said it tends to conjure up all sorts of misconceptions and generalisations. Try not to pay attention to it tbh. What's important is that you like her and she likes you. Your friends should mature enough as they get to know her to accept who she is. Mine did. Best of luck.

Nevyn

The theology debate is better off in humanities or any of the forums in the religion and spirituality section.

Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

Rosita

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Well, just to be pedantic, no, that's not technically correct either. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a disbelief. It's not a denial of god/s existence, rather that no god/s exists to believe in. Nowadays you get everything from anti-theistic to theistic atheists so it's a pretty huge pigeon hole.

Anyway...

"Atheism is a lack of belief, not a disbelief."

Well this is just active v passive isn't it? There is no difference in meaning as far as I can see. I took my definition from the OED by the way.

As for this:

"It's not a denial of god/s existence, rather that no god/s exists to believe in."

Can you explain the difference?

Nevyn

If you are happy with her having faith and being actively involved in charites and events then whats the issue? That your friends think it's werid and uncool? If your friends are biased don't let them wreck your head, tell them that you respect her having faith and they should respect your realtionship with her and stop bad mouthing her due to this.

You may have to have talks later on in the relationship about how you will live together and if you go down the path of having kids but that far enough off yet.

Bottle_of_Smoke

"Irish Catholic" is an ethnicity in America. The other from the Island being referred to as Scots-Irish (decendents of Ulster Plantation mostly)

Any possibility that's all she meant?

magneticimpulse

Does she have sex before marriage? Does she believe in protection, such as condoms? These would be the only things I would think about if I was dating a practising Catholic. If these are not issues with her and you both agree on them...then i dont see why she is any different to you or majority of Irish people in Ireland. If she not trying to convert you and your both happy...its fine. Otherwise plenty of single Irish girls available

How Strange

IrlUS wrote: »

No, I haven't discussed this with my friends or said that I'm uneasy, i didn't really even notice it until they said it. They put a doubt in my head is all, its more of the Irish culture I grew up in that when someone mentions mentions the bible or a church group you start to think "uh oh..." as Ireland has become much more relaxed about it.

IMO, Irish people despite our history of catholicism being endemic in our society are not very comfortable with the idea of being an every day catholic. By this I mean we can be uncomfortable with the earnestness of say Americans and their beliefs in god and religion.

I don't know why we are like that but perhaps it's something to do with idea the catholic religion in Ireland was always about repression, deprivation and suffering to reach salvation after death. Certainly the catholic church and religion in Ireland has never had many celebratory aspects to it. If you compare feast days in say Spain or Italy to the same feast days in Ireland you see that we don't really celebrate, we just participate according to how the church tells us.

Also we aren't encouraged to read the bible. In fact we're probably actively discouraged from reading it and we are told to take our instruction directly from the church.

From what I've seen Americans seem to bring their religion into their everyday lives in a way that Irish people don't or can't by thanking god for things, praying, being christian and they don't do half measures. If they're catholic then they're catholic. None of this fence sitting, I only go to church to get married, christen my kids etc etc that a lot of Irish people subscribe to.

I also don't think it's anything to do with younger Irish generations being more relaxed about religion. If anything that should make us more accepting but it just makes us more uneasy. I think the OP has just found he's not comfortable around this idea of religion and religious people like his gf and perhaps that's because it's catholicism jim but not as we know it.