The Etiquette of Overtaking

Mr Yunioshi

On the Wicklow 200 yesterday my friends and I were mildly curious about the overtaking procedure adopted by many cyclists, often in groups.

We are not part of any club or group, other than a bunch of us cycle together reasonably frequently and often, as yesterday, we cycle in pairs or singly.

Regardless of all the available space, some overtakers would almost rub shoulders, handlebars would be very close indeed and the back wheel of the overtaking bike would force a small adjustment of the front wheel of the overtaken.

Frequently the overtaker(s) then would slow (for a breather?) before moving on, forcing us to break our rhythm and slow (or pull out and push on for a few hundred metres before the repeat).

Is this normal? Is there a degree of pride in how close it can be done without actually touching? In motorcycle touring this would be seen as bad manners but is there a reason for it in road cycling?

Raam

That's bunch cycling for you.

Ryaner

Closer you are the less wind resistance there is. In groups it is bad show to pull in front and leave a massive gap when overtaking.
Probably not great idea to do it with unknown people on the road but hey.

IM0

In a lot of cases when people are use to this style of riding, its better for you the overtaken to be overtaken as close as possible as you then get out of the draft and are being given an easier ride. then there are those who like to buzz newbs and wreck their head :pac: its normal in bunch cycling, wait till your in the middle of a bunch going 60 and someone cuts up through the middle hitting your shoulders and handlebars, and its the first time it happened to you :eek:

DirkVoodoo

Even though I left early, I thought the standard up to Sally Gap was ok.

There was still a few people cycling slowly on the right side of the road, which was not cool. That's where people move up. I had to pass between two guys at one point.

But it's a sportive so you should probably leave a bit more room than normal and not treat it like a race.

Nietzschean

Mr Yunioshi wrote: »

Frequently the overtaker(s) then would slow (for a breather?) before moving on, forcing us to break our rhythm and slow (or pull out and push on for a few hundred metres before the repeat).

often it can feel like thats what they did, but in effect your drafting off them once they pull infront so for the same effort you'll actually accelerate....

IM0

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

There was still a few people cycling slowly on the right side of the road, which was not cool. That's where people move up. .

that wrecked my head on the marmotte on the galibier some years, its the equivilant sin to drive in the overtaking lane [thats the inside lane for the same types who dont know ] on the motorway with car coming up behind you.

DirkVoodoo

me@ucd wrote: »

that wrecked my head on the marmotte on the galibier some years, its the equivilant sin to drive in the overtaking lane [thats the inside lane for the same types who dont know ] on the motorway with car coming up behind you.

Yeah it's pretty annoying alright. Go at your own pace, just don't stop me going at mine

xz

On last years WW200,going up Slieve Mann, on the left, very slowly I might add. I had a few jokers "undertake" me on the inside.
It was my intention to stay to the left to let people pass me as I am a very poor climber, but to squeeze by me on the inside is just real bad manners, and a bit of a shock when you're not expecting it. Only 1 rider of the half dozen or so that did this, called out to me that he was coming up the inside, he also gave me a very welcoming push as he did so.

Mr Yunioshi

Thanks for the responses. I doubt we were being "buzzed", this was obviously normal protocol to these guys - everyone was very pleasant.

"...in effect your drafting off them once they pull infront so for the same effort you'll actually accelerate..."

Makes sense - I hadn't considered that.

So in effect, we were sensitive to this but it is something that goes with riding in bunches - you get used to it and it can be beneficial.

tawfeeredux

A few times yesterday, while overtaking as part of a group, especially when I was towards the back of the group, the overtaken cyclist(s) would drift to the right, with the result that i was passing a lot closer to them than I would have liked in order to stay with the group i was with.

I think what might have been happening was that the overtaken cyclist would look to the right at the first of the overtaking cyclists and unknowingly drift in the same direction. I'd occasionally find myself doing something similar when cycling on my own.

glic71rods46t0

Nietzschean wrote: »

often it can feel like thats what they did, but in effect your drafting off them once they pull infront so for the same effort you'll actually accelerate....

That explains a lot then. I have a habit of overtaking cyclists very closely especially if there's a bunch of them taking up my overtaking space.
The fist waving and shouting must be waves and shout of approval and thanks for the "draft" ... Glad to be of assistance!!!

niceonetom

Post reported.

Before anyone takes the bait I feel, in the interests of full disclosure, compelled to point out that "Fencer" is TimAllen.

glic71rods46t0

niceonetom wrote: »

Post reported.

Before anyone takes the bait I feel, in the interests of full disclosure, compelled to point out that "Fencer" is TimAllen.

oh give it a rest Tom - I feel, in the interests of full disclosure, compelled to point out that my post is just a bit of banter! Lighten up!!!

Mr Yunioshi

"...the overtaken cyclist would look to the right at the first of the overtaking cyclists and unknowingly drift in the same direction..."

Not in this case. As the day progressed I noticed that the tail-enders of each bunch were liable to attempt pulling in simultaneously with the rest of the group, regardless of whether they had cleared my front wheel. Tired legs, perhaps.

In anticipation of this, while being passed by a big group, I started to drift ever-so-slightly (say, 8 inches or so) to the right to leave some wiggle room to move back left. That worked just fine.

This "overtaking proximity" was an exclusively male trait, even within the large groups.

RobFowl

tnrka92m5wi0qd wrote: »

oh give it a rest Tom - I feel, in the interests of full disclosure, compelled to point out that my post is just a bit of banter! Lighten up!!!

57 on Sunday Happy Birthday Tim

iregk

Well when I pass I'm practically rubbing shoulders with the ones I'm passing but then again I'm used to bunch cycling and a bit of contact every now and again. The one thing is though I feel a lot of regular club cyclists don't really take into consideration the number of casuals in a sportive and don't give them the space they require.

The two biggest examples of this from the weekend were the first kinda descent before making our way up the rocky valley. A tonne of carbon came flooding down the right hand side and started zig zagging in and out for position and the amount of casual cyclists that got the jitters and started to act irrationally was unreal. I'm shocked there wasn't an accident there.

The second bad spot was the climb before hollywood where things really bunced up. Before I knew where I was I found myself on the inside blocked by two very nervous guys not used to pack cycling. Made my way out but passsed by a lot of shaken casuals. People remember, you may be a top competitor, a club cyclist or what ever but your riding with a lot of people who have only ever been on their own or in a group of 2 at a max maybe. Have some thought for them!

glic71rods46t0

iregk wrote: »

Well when I pass I'm practically rubbing shoulders with the ones I'm passing but then again I'm used to bunch cycling and a bit of contact every now and again. The one thing is though I feel a lot of regular club cyclists don't really take into consideration the number of casuals in a sportive and don't give them the space they require.

The two biggest examples of this from the weekend were the first kinda descent before making our way up the rocky valley. A tonne of carbon came flooding down the right hand side and started zig zagging in and out for position and the amount of casual cyclists that got the jitters and started to act irrationally was unreal. I'm shocked there wasn't an accident there.

The second bad spot was the climb before hollywood where things really bunced up. Before I knew where I was I found myself on the inside blocked by two very nervous guys not used to pack cycling. Made my way out but passsed by a lot of shaken casuals. People remember, you may be a top competitor, a club cyclist or what ever but your riding with a lot of people who have only ever been on their own or in a group of 2 at a max maybe. Have some thought for them!

This, and other posts in this thread make for startling reading ... if this kind of thing is happening on public roads then specific legislation will need to be passed to outlaw such reckless behaviour on the roads.
There's a world of difference between allowing bicycles on public roads for the purpose of commuting - and allowing this sort of reckless "sporting?" activity the privilege of using our roads.

Mr Yunioshi

I don't appear to have a "thanks" button, so iregk - Thanks.

Ant

Mr Yunioshi wrote: »

I don't appear to have a "thanks" button, so iregk - Thanks.

It's the little "thumbs up" symbol on the bottom right corner of each post.

tnrka92m5wi0qd

tnrka92m5wi0qd wrote: »

This, and other posts in this thread make for startling reading ... if this kind of thing is happening on public roads then specific legislation will need to be passed to outlaw such reckless behaviour on the roads.
There's a world of difference between allowing bicycles on public roads for the purpose of commuting - and allowing this sort of reckless "sporting?" activity the privilege of using our roads.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Mr Yunioshi

One must have to hit ten posts before the "thanks" button appears - it's there now!

Chips Lovell

Mr Yunioshi wrote: »

Regardless of all the available space, some overtakers would almost rub shoulders, handlebars would be very close indeed and the back wheel of the overtaking bike would force a small adjustment of the front wheel of the overtaken.

Frequently the overtaker(s) then would slow (for a breather?) before moving on, forcing us to break our rhythm and slow (or pull out and push on for a few hundred metres before the repeat).

Close overtaking is kind of normal, but if they swing in too soon that you have to brake or move your front wheel, they're being careless. Slowing down too is bad form, but that depends on whether they've actually slowed down or whether it feels like they've slowed down because of the drafting effect.

Canis Lupus

tnrka92m5wi0qd wrote: »

This, and other posts in this thread make for startling reading ... if this kind of thing is happening on public roads then specific legislation will need to be passed to outlaw such reckless behaviour on the roads.
There's a world of difference between allowing bicycles on public roads for the purpose of commuting - and allowing this sort of reckless "sporting?" activity the privilege of using our roads.

Why do you continue trolling when no one cares??

abcdggs

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Why do you continue trolling when no one cares??

Please dont feed the troll

SerialComplaint

niceonetom wrote: »

Post reported.

Before anyone takes the bait I feel, in the interests of full disclosure, compelled to point out that "Fencer" is TimAllen.

Thanks - that's what ignore lists are for.

tomasrojo

RobFowl wrote: »

57 on Sunday Happy Birthday Tim

Saw that as well. Page 316 on Aertel is the celebrity birthday page.

CheGuedara

I wondered (briefly) what makes a forum troll tick - I just don't understand them (probably a good thing).

In anycase the google-fu was used and this was returned



So while we may never quite know what brings these beings to our patch time and time again, we might glean some insight into what makes them the way they are (before pressing the ignore button).


On the topic of overtaking, I'd agree with eltonto - this close form of overtaking is largely the norm in experienced, usually club, cyclists who would be very comfortable with close formation cycling. Better cyclists wouldn't normally pull in so close to those being overtaken as to require them to brake or steer to avoid the front wheel being brushed so I'd be inclined to put that down to either poor technique/lack of experience or as eltonto says, just carelessness.

My club would be used to close quarters cycling & overtaking but we do as a general rule give a shout of 'on your left' and/or 'riders up' to alert riders overtaking of slower riders ahead and to make cyclists we are going to overtake aware of us before we pass so not to unnerve them by silently passing by - so far no incidents, or complaints

SerialComplaint

Any suggestions for etiquette re urban overtaking? I've tried shouting 'coming thru' or 'on your right' a few times, but this generally results in more wobbling/wavering than if I said nothing at all.

CheGuedara

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Any suggestions for etiquette re urban overtaking? I've tried shouting 'coming thru' or 'on your right' a few times, but this generally results in more wobbling/wavering than if I said nothing at all.

Always found that a mixed bag myself but a gentle but definite 'on your right' just as you start to pass and then moving with caution is pretty much as good a system as I have.

Canis Lupus

Can't say I call out. Just glance to ensure no car is about to run me over and overtake giving him/her a wide berth. Can't say I've ever had any probs overtaking another cyclist.