SNA-where do I stand..??

OskerWilde!

Hi everyone,
Im new here so not sure if Ive posted in the right place? Im an SNA in a primary school and we've got a new principal who doesnt know what shes suppose to be doing-she was really landed in at the deep end to be honest but there is a serious lack of communication to staff(7 staff in the school-surely it cant be difficult!!)

Anywho, as an SNA I was always certain I was there for the child as a SNA and not attached to the class as a classroom asssistant! Now Im always doing the usual bits like hoovering, art etc.. However I was informed the other day that I was to get out on yard duty (my pupil was out that day so I was busy in the classroom hanging up art and cleaning presses!). She preceeded to tell me that I was attached to the class and not to the pupil...So i said if the pupil lost their SNA would I still have a job if I was attached to the class!!! She said No, but thats it so "toddle on".......!
When I started the job I was specifically taken on for a special needs child but I clearly knew "the role of the SNA" as outlined but little did I know that somewhere along the way I became a classroom assistant instead!!

Can anyone please please help me???? I always loved my job but she is making things very difficult for me lately.. I was told by the secretary today that I have to stay an extra hour on Friday for a staff meeting(the principal told her today that she's be informing me of this tomorrow- For 7 staff dont ya think that the principal could just tell me herself and not be mouthing off the secreetary-who has a mouth like a tear in a bag!!!!:rolleyes:
I could go on.....

Thanks so much for a reply!!

Lady_North1

As far as I know, classroom assistants do not really exist in Ireland. You are an sna and are assigned to the school to assist a child, as decided by the principal. You are not a classroom assistant.

As an SNA I do yard duty every day. Child there or not. We have 6 sna in our school and we have to supervise at yard time. All the time........

Hoovering and such cleaning are not part of your job. Tidying the classroom, that the child is in, is part of your duty. General tidy of the classroom before and after school are part of the role of the sna. 10 mins before and after school is the longest you can be asked to stay.

Go over to www.educationposts.ie There is a huge section for special needs assistants. You will get lots of advice from there.

OskerWilde!

Great, thanks...

mariaf24

OskerWilde!, Education Posts is a very 'small community' if you know what i mean. I would not post anything with too much detail there as you could easily be recognised, even by the principal herself :eek:

I don't mean to alarm you be careful what you say!

OskerWilde!

No sweat there MAriaf24!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not too pushed, think she'd be the type to do some knitting instead of checking up on SNA boards!!

Are you afraid that you know me or something??;)

I have the right to my opinion, I havent mentioned any names and I was only looking for advice!

mariaf24

Oh god no,i don't know you at all lol! But i know that normally when people are posting on educationposts they change a few details so as not to be recognised.

OskerWilde!

Oh right, Maybe I should have changed a few details just in case....awww well.....Nevermind now,,,,:o

overmantle

I couldn't help reading your comment that YOU think the new principal doesn't know what she is supposed to be doing. If she's new to the school and it's a school with only 7 staff, then I presume she's teaching a class all day, as well as trying to become familiar with a new school, new parents, new staff, new children etc etc.

Just because she's new doesn't mean that she doesn't know what she is supposed to be doing. Just because she is new doesn't make her wrong. In fact, assisting during supervision IS very much part of the job of the SNA. Also, she IS perfectly correct in saying that an SNA is appointed to the school, on the basis of the overall caseload. That is what every SENO in the country (who decides on whether an SNA is warranted in the school or not) will tell you. It is the responsibility of the principal to deploy SNA staff in the school to support those children with SNA access and the school as a whole.

One thing you might consider also is that if/when there is an SNA review, it will normally be the principal who will be the one who will have to fight to avoid reduction (or removal) of SNA access support from the school. You might do well to remember that next time before castigating your principal on a public forum and clearly being very negative towards her. I totally would agree with the other poster who advised you about being careful.

If you have a job in the present day, you are lucky. You may not always have it but you might do well to show some support to your new principal. The likelihood is that the new principal obviously doesn't know everything about the school yet but she clearly knows alot more than you think she does.

Change is difficult for us all but change is sometimes necessary if things need to be improved. I hope that helps.

overmantle

Hi 'OskerWilde'.

Just one other thing that struck me that might help you to see things a little differently. Communication is obviously very important in every school, I couldn't agree with you more. Given that your principal is a teaching principal, communication is probably more of a challenge for her, if she has responsibility for a class for the day, on top of all the other jobs and responsibilities.

If you have a concern about communication, I can't see the complaint about spending an extra hour at a staff meeting. That is an ideal opportunity for communication and it is great that you are being included in the meeting. This is the best opportunity for the principal to meet all staff members together and to allow for open communication. If the secretary told you before the principal got the opportunity, then that was hardly the principal's fault.

One final thing is that an SNA is obliged to spend up to 12 days per year, outside of school time, working in the school. in truth, this is very much at the discretion of the principal. Are you currently spending 12 additional days in the school? If not, an extra hour is hardly excessive.

Once again, as you asked for replies, even though it may not be exactly what you initially wanted to hear, I hope that it helps you to see things in a more positive light and gives you a fresh perspective on things. Best of luck for the coming year and have a great summer.

OskerWilde!

Overmantle!

Stand corrected!! The New principal is new in our school but has been a principal for 15 yrs in a past school and no, she is not a teaching principal as we are due a 4th teacher this week due to numbers...

Incase you have forgotten-this is an open forum where qs are asked and answered and everyone has the right to ask a question so no need to get so upset and feel like you have to answer them..

We do 2 days at easter and ten in the summer for your info! Its never a problem, and well we know it...

ANyway got onto union who kindly confirmed my position to which I was delighted with the answer....

I hope overmantle that answers your questions-dont get too worked up over it, its noly a forum..:D

overmantle

OskerWilde! wrote: »

Overmantle!

Stand corrected!! The New principal is new in our school but has been a principal for 15 yrs in a past school and no, she is not a teaching principal as we are due a 4th teacher this week due to numbers...

Incase you have forgotten-this is an open forum where qs are asked and answered and everyone has the right to ask a question so no need to get so upset and feel like you have to answer them..

We do 2 days at easter and ten in the summer for your info! Its never a problem, and well we know it...

ANyway got onto union who kindly confirmed my position to which I was delighted with the answer....

I hope overmantle that answers your questions-dont get too worked up over it, its noly a forum..:D

No bother at all. Osker wilde, or should that not be 'Oscar' Wilde? I was merely pointing out the actual situation regarding the role of principal and the situation where an SNA is appointed to a school etc. as you did ask for a reply.

Regardless of what the Union may or may not say to you, it doesn't change the situation with your employer, The Dept. of Education & Skills and how SNA staff are to be deployed (for the school as opposed to individual pupils). SNA 'access' is the buzz word now in DES and among all the SENOs. The 'velcro model' to one child is no longer seen as the way to go. Merely pointing out the facts and that your principal was correct. Sorry if that upset you or if you had not been aware of that when the principal addressed you initially and which prompted you to ask your original question.

To be fair, Oskerwilde, you were the one who said you had a 'new' principal whom you claimed didn't know 'what she was supposed to be doing' and you claimed had been 'landed in at the deep end'. Now you inform us that she is a principal with 15 years experience in another school - hardly as you described her initially.

Finally, I have to admit that you have me totally confused (no fear, definitely not upset). Yours must be a very unusual school. You began by saying that it was a school with 7 on staff. This I assume includes yourself and the secretary, and possibly another SNA or 2? This is why I pointed out that your 'new' principal is obviously a 'teaching' principal as opposed to an 'administrative' principal. You now contradict me by saying that your school is about to appoint a 4th teacher this week so that on that basis, your principal is NOT a teaching principal. Perhaps you might check the appointment and retention schedule for administrative (non-teaching) principals. You'll find that there is no school in the country with an administrative principal in a 4 teacher school and certainly not in a 3 teacher school.

Then again, what would I know?

OskerWilde!

No, she is a walking principal...I see her walking everyday!!
and No, Its Osker Wilde, just as I said....
ANd yes, she was landed in at the deep end, she was principal in another school in the parish but moved due to tragic circumstances in the family of our old principal (shouldnt really have to explain)...she was well settled in the old school and our school is just all over the place! Hope that answers your questions to some extent..
Oh and Im an SNA, its not in my "role" to check the bla bla bla of principals and retention....I dont care if there are 77 staff with a teaching principal,not my concern...;)
Just glad the right people cleared it up...
Looking forward to our staff meeting on Friday and Holidays next week....YYYIIIPPPPEEEE!!

bigbrotherfan

Not sure why this question was asked, if when factual information is offered, clearly relevant to the original question, yet it is greeted with nastiness by the original poster. I have read this thread from start to finish and thought that the point made about the teaching principal was a very relevant one, in the circumstances. Overmantle obviously knows what s/he is talking about. The explanation by the original poster, regarding the teaching /non-teaching principal, just doesn't stack up. The latest response says it all.
Perhaps what some people expect on this forum is a place where everybody will agree with us, even when another viewpoint needs to be considered.

Toto Wolfcastle

Right, as the OP says that he/she has received an answer from the union there is no need for this thread any more.

PM me if anyone has any questions.