The PDs: From Boom To Bust - two-part RTE documentry starting tonight

Eliot Rosewater

I thought I'd give everyone the heads up about this programme being aired tonight at 9:30 on RTE One.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/programmes/the_pds_from_boom_to_bust.html

Rte.ie wrote:

The PDs: From Boom to Bust is a two-part documentary series which charts the rise and fall of the Progressive Democrats, the party with a political lifespan which mirrors the boom and bust of the Celtic Tiger era.

It should be interesting! Perhaps we can discuss it here. From reading these forums there appears to be a desire for a fiscally conservative party. Learning the lessons from the last one would be instructive in speculating as to whether a successor will ever emerge and survive.

invinciblePRSTV

If its anything like Stephen Collins fawning book on them then it'll probably be poor.

Lets remember that the PDs were nothing more then a urban middle class FFer rump party who's sole reason for existence was Charles Haughey, once he left and contrarian Dessie O' Malley retired then FF & the PDs are virtually indistinguishable.

Also let's not forget their key role in being architects of this countrys present malaise.

Permabear

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Annasopra

donegalfella wrote: »

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Outside of this forum on boards.ie I've seen very little evidence of such an appetite

UltimateMale

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

If its anything like Stephen Collins fawning book on them then it'll probably be poor.

Lets remember that the PDs were nothing more then a urban middle class FFer rump party who's sole reason for existence was Charles Haughey, once he left and contrarian Dessie O' Malley retired then FF & the PDs are virtually indistinguishable.

Also let's not forget their key role in being architects of this countrys present malaise.

The difference between the PD's and FF was more about political ambitions and personality clashes than any real substance in ideology or morals.

One of the main reasons O'Malley gave for leaving FF to start the PD's was that he was for the Anglo Irish agreement and Haughey against it. Then later he rejoined the great baddie Haughey and FF in coalition but this time O'Malley was aginst the Anglo Irish agreement and Haughey for it !!!!

This is what passes as politics and " breaking the mold " :rolleyes:

Permabear

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Tipp Man

donegalfella wrote: »

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Thats because the people that are actually contributing to this country are too busy trying to keep their heads above water while those who shout the loudest don't actually do anything so have more time off to make the noise

The real contributors to this country are way to under represented in this country

invinciblePRSTV

Tipp Man wrote: »

Thats because the people that are actually contributing to this country are too busy trying to keep their heads above water while those who shout the loudest don't actually do anything so have more time off to make the noise

The real contributors to this country are way to under represented in this country

Absolute nonsense, come back to the thread when you know what your on about.

Pride Fighter

I'll be watching this tonight. Should be a good show.

Tipp Man

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Absolute nonsense, come back to the thread when you know what your on about.

Seriously?? I like the way you have proven me wrong, good arguement

Who has been doing the most protesting/complaining in the last 2 years, teachers, public sector workers, pensioners, do gooders campaigning for social equality etc etc. All people who have more time off than they no what to do with. Who do you think David Begg, Jack O Connor et all are representing? Why can't i turn on a political programme without having their agenda constantly rammed down my throat

Now tell me who has been protesting for the taxpayer, the business man who creates jobs etc etc. Who is there David Begg and how much airtime do they get in comparison??

sceptre

I've deleted two idiotic comments from wannabe standup comedians and one reasonable comment about the idiocy of the comments by the wannabe standup comedians.

Oh yes, also please put away those rubber claws folks, try to be reasonably polite to each other - it is expected after all.

/mod

MysticalRain

donegalfella wrote: »

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I would pretty much agree with that. Although I would replace the word "corporatist" with "populist". I don't exactly share the PD's economic ideology myself, but I would have been eternally grateful to them if they had acted like the grown-ups in the FF/PD/independent coalition and reigned in spending we couldn't afford, and stood up to the vested interests in the construction industry. Of course that was never going to happen with people like Tom Parlin in the party, nice guy that he is. One of the few consolations is at least Michael McDowell torpedoed the Bertie Bowl project.

In an alternate history where the PDs did not disband, I wonder whether they could have used this economic disaster to reinvent themselves as a genuinely free-market liberal party. I agree that there's a real appetite for such ideas at this time.

I'm not sure there is much appetite for the PD's brand of economic libertarianism beyond middle and upper class urban elites. But I still think it would be a good thing to have a bunch of libertarian headbangers protesting outside the dail these days. If you can run a business, then surely you can organize a protest. Even the old-age pensioners of this country were able to organize some form of protest.

Permabear

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The_Minister

I'm watching - nothing earth-shattering so far.

The juicy stuff will come later in the party's history.

Permabear

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paddyland

Seems to be fairly damning of Mary Harney so far.

Liam Byrne

McCreevy just got in the FF party disclaimer about Ireland being obsessed with blaming someone for things that happened in the past!

FFS! If that were applied to the justice system, no-one would ever be convicted, because their crimes "happened in the past".

What are we supposed to do, Charlie ? Only blame people for things that happen in the future ?

paddyland

Good old Berrrtie, taking the handy opportunity to remind everyone that nobody ever told HIM to keep an eye on the economy during his tenure...

gandalf

paddyland wrote: »

Good old Berrrtie, taking the handy opportunity to remind everyone that nobody ever told HIM to keep an eye on the economy during his tenure...

Yep the TV nearly got smashed when the Bank of Drumcondra spokesman came out with those comments!!!

ei.sdraob

interesting comment from Bertie

"no one cared or asked about the economy"

will watch again once on rte player to get exact quote

Liam Byrne

paddyland wrote: »

Good old Berrrtie, taking the handy opportunity to remind everyone that nobody ever told HIM to keep an eye on the economy during his tenure...

Spotted that......no chance that he'd have seen it as part of his job, considering it had apparently registered that he was "the only prime minister in Europe not being asked about it" ?

Plus he threw in the cheap and snide dig / claim that McDowell only blocked Ahern's ego Bertie Bowl project because Lansdowne Road was in McDowell's constituency......including a further cheap shot about it being "what a Mayo councillor" would do, all the time with that cheesy smug grin of his.

At least the real people discussing it pointed out that McDowell saved the country about €1 billion by blocking Ahern's pet project.

paddyland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Spotted that......no chance that he'd have seen it as part of his job, considering it had apparently registered that he was "the only prime minister in Europe not being asked about it" ?

Plus he threw in the cheap and snide dig / claim that McDowell only blocked Ahern's ego Bertie Bowl project because Lansdowne Road was in McDowell's constituency......including a further cheap shot about it being "what a Mayo councillor" would do, all the time with that cheesy smug grin of his.

At least the real people discussing it pointed out that McDowell saved the country about €1 billion by blocking Ahern's pet project.

Bertie had his own friends in Mayo...

Pride Fighter

Great show. Reminds me of how much I despise the PD's. Nothing against any of them personally, but they had awful policies that aided in the destruction of the Irish economy and fabric of good society. Michael McDowell went up in my estimation, when he told how he always treated his activists and canvassers well. Although various people win seats be they council or dail seats it is them who do the hard work.

The PD's did not have enough of that. If they did they'd be still around.

PeterIanStaker

Its like an extended political party broadcast :rolleyes:

Eliot Rosewater

I thought it was an interesting show.

I think they're are some parallels between then and now, in particular the lack of genuine choice between 3 similar parties at the time. It's only a pity that the PDs left their idealogical and intellectual foundation, though one could argue that that was inevitable in the arena of politics.

There was also a segment from a speech in the 97 election campaign in which it was said that the return of a Labour government would result in thousands of job losses. Effectively the same fear myself and other proponents of a free-market dynamic economy would have today. A "jobless recovery" etc.

K-9

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I thought it was an interesting show.

I think they're are some parallels between then and now, in particular the lack of genuine choice between 3 similar parties at the time. It's only a pity that the PDs left their idealogical and intellectual foundation, though one could argue that that was inevitable in the arena of politics.

There was also a segment from a speech in the 97 election campaign in which it was said that the return of a Labour government would result in thousands of job losses. Effectively the same fear myself and other proponents of a free-market dynamic economy would have today. A "jobless recovery" etc.

Problem is, the 3 similar parties now include Labour. Things have changed slightly from 97.

bryanw

It was interesting enough, although a bit light on the detail, given the fact that it was over an hour long. Perhaps they could have had less of a time span in part one. Twas interesting to see what everyone had to say for themselves though.

There did seem to be a tone of rivalry. A clash of personalities was eluded to that went on behind the scenes. In that sense one could see how the organisation was destined to failure, and gives credence to the criticism of how it was run from the top down.

Unfortunately, the Progressive Democrats failed halt the lavish public spending which was Bertie's raison d'etre. This all played into the current situation where the entitlement culture became king. There is now a situation where it is political suicide to metion anything un-PC about taking money or benefits away from people in the pocket of the public purse, such as the single mothers policy mentioned in the programme.

My favourite part was when Colm McCarthy said McDowell saved us €1 billion that would have been spent on the Bertie Bowl! :P

fifth

I was absolutely cringing watching Mary Harney's impromptu spicing up of the manifesto doc.. single mothers should stay at home with their family!

Found it to be interesting although as a previous poster said a bit light on detail, will probably tune in to the next half if I remember to!

Permabear

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delop

Maybe I'm naive, but i was shocked that an attorney general can publicly be a member of a political party...

No wonder the Government gets 'legal advice' that suits them all the time!

paddyland

Part two just finished on RTE1... The influence of Michael McDowell in Irish politics is an interesting topic to discuss sometime. He was certainly divisive in the PDs, but given a choice between McDowell and Harney, I'd a hundred times have McDowell. Tonight's program again didn't show Harney in a great light.

Berrrtie of course sleazed through again, muttering about how the public service deserved a great big, unsustainable handout so long as the country was awash with money. Between that, and his moanings about having to disclose his communion and confirmation money (no Bertie, they didn't ask about your communion money, only specifically about money you received questionably while Minister for Finance), he still seems to be living in planet Bertie.

Charlie McCreevy's comment about McDowell, a glass of whiskey and a gun to the temple, was a bit close to the bone, I thought.

kev9100

I think that program summed up the Pds very well. They all seemed far more interested in their vain little power trips then apologising for the incredible damage their economic policies did to Ireland.

paddyland

Among her long list of 'accomplishments,' we can thank Mary Harney for foisting Tom Parlon on us. Both Harney and McDowell seemed to suffer from an enormous sense of knowing what is good for the people whether they want it or not. McDowell at least, was straight about it, you knew what he stood for. Harney is a two faced underhanded spin merchant.

Diarmuid

paddyland wrote: »

Among her long list of 'accomplishments,' we can thank Mary Harney for foisting Tom Parlon on us.

Some people will blame Harney for anything! How about thanking the people from Laois for "foisting" Tom Parlon on you. They did elect him.

PeterIanStaker

Can you get this on RTE player? I just want to watch the bit when McDowell loses his seat, sweet schadenfreude.

Persiancowboy

The most chilling and disturbing moment of this excellent two-parter was Michael "Herr Flick" Mcdowell's comment right at the end that one should NEVER rule out future public service.

Given the ****e we are in at present the very last thing we need right now is his return to public life.......:eek:

cagney88

Whoever did the transition shots of Dublin 2 etc did a remarkable job. Made the city look fantastic. Just beautiful! Not the usual cr*p we've come to expect.

Charlie Mc Creevy's comment about a shot of whiskey and a gun to the head was...em...weirdly funny.

I liked McDowell. The man was totally misunderstood. Id rather a intellectual on our cabinet any day of the week as opposed to the fumbling idiots and family dynasties that we normally get.