ridiculous

lallychops

anyone else highly irritated by the fact that you cant get an english translation for the marking scheme for irish as a subject?
you have the option to view the marking scheme in both english and irish when it somes to every other subject (including french spanish and german)on the leaving cert course.....its bloody ridiculous. whatever about peoples standard of irish they shouldnt expect people to be able to follow that even at higher level...if they put so much emphasis on people doing well in this subject beacuse its "part of our national heritage" you think they would make it a tad easier when people are trying to study it????

its a complete and utter joke:mad:

gemxpink

Which one are you looking at? If you tell me the part I'll help translate it!

Victoria.

I'd say it's because anyone correcting the exams should have an excellent standard or be fluent. They don't care about us :pac:

**Timbuk2**

I know exactly what you mean. I hate the way Irish is taught

take a French book - they give you words and the corresponding English translations. In Irish there are no translations in the book so you must waste time in dictionaries.

H2student

....and most people, learn tens of essays off by heart without knowing what most of it means.

Indigo Sunrise

Some of the markings schemes are available through Irish because many people answer them through irish(like people in all Irish schools).
The Irish scheme is only in Irish because it's only answered through Irish. If they had it in English, then they'd also have to have the marking scheme for English in Irish as well, just for equality and such

lallychops

H2student wrote: »

....and most people, learn tens of essays off by heart without knowing what most of it means.

and look at stair na gaeilge?? people dont care...they just learn it off....completely pointless haha

Fad

lallychops wrote: »

anyone else highly irritated by the fact that you cant get an english translation for the marking scheme for irish as a subject?
you have the option to view the marking scheme in both english and irish when it somes to every other subject (including french spanish and german)on the leaving cert course.....its bloody ridiculous. whatever about peoples standard of irish they shouldnt expect people to be able to follow that even at higher level...if they put so much emphasis on people doing well in this subject beacuse its "part of our national heritage" you think they would make it a tad easier when people are trying to study it????

its a complete and utter joke:mad:

The marking schemes are not written for you, they are written for the correctors, someone correcting LC Irish would not need an English translation......

lallychops

Fad wrote: »

The marking schemes are not written for you, they are written for the correctors, someone correcting LC Irish would not need an English translation......

that maybe...but if you are going to make them available to te public and every other exam is given the option they should change it. what annoys me the most is they give out about people not doing well in this subject but they dont exactly help people in studying it. as was said earlier look at the irish books where all the notes are given in irish. there should be some lee way....

MathsManiac

So let me get this clear:

You've been granted access to a valuable and useful document that was written for internal use by an organisation, and you're complaining because they won't translate it for you?

lallychops

MathsManiac wrote: »

So let me get this clear:

You've been granted access to a valuable and useful document that was written for internal use by an organisation, and you're complaining because they won't translate it for you?

essentially yes. they evidently went to the trouble of printing everything else in f***ing english,and giving an irish version...one more isnt gonna kill them is it?also not very useful if you cant understand half of it and hardly worth the time translating it word for word. waste of a subject anyway imo

johnmcdnl

every answer on the irish paper is written in irish so therefore english doesn't have any role in the subject whatsoever...

in every other subject students may answer through irish or english so both marking schemes are required.. even in french or other languages there are
some questions that aren't answered in french so...

if you check you'll see that there's no irish version of the english marking scheme.. i could say that's completely unfair because irish speakers aren't helped in the subject...

MathsManiac

lallychops wrote: »

essentially yes. they evidently went to the trouble of printing everything else in f***ing english,and giving an irish version...one more isnt gonna kill them is it?also not very useful if you cant understand half of it and hardly worth the time translating it word for word. waste of a subject anyway imo

The examiners who mark through English use a marking scheme in English, and the ones who mark through Irish use a marking scheme in Irish. In the case of English, there are no examiners marking through Irish, and in the case of Irish, there are no examiners marking through English. It'd be a bit bizarre if the examiner marking your Irish script couldn't follow the marking scheme because it was in Irish!

I think it's pretty decent of the SEC to let you see these documents at all.

lallychops

MathsManiac wrote: »

The examiners who mark through English use a marking scheme in English, and the ones who mark through Irish use a marking scheme in Irish. In the case of English, there are no examiners marking through Irish, and in the case of Irish, there are no examiners marking through English. It'd be a bit bizarre if the examiner marking your Irish script couldn't follow the marking scheme because it was in Irish!

I think it's pretty decent of the SEC to let you see these documents at all.

once again you are missing my point. marking schemes have been made available for the benefit of students.

my point again is that people should be able to use these to maximise potential in exams...therefore should be printed in english aswell.....regardless of the relevance of english to the exam......i do not care about how bizarre it would be my point is its not esay for students to use thus defeating the purpose for which they were made available

lallychops

johnmcdnl wrote: »

every answer on the irish paper is written in irish so therefore english doesn't have any role in the subject whatsoever...

in every other subject students may answer through irish or english so both marking schemes are required.. even in french or other languages there are
some questions that aren't answered in french so...

if you check you'll see that there's no irish version of the english marking scheme.. i could say that's completely unfair because irish speakers aren't helped in the subject...

uh the difference being....irish speakers can speak perfect english!!!! no disadvantage there!! they dont need the help.....

Sl!mCharles

lallychops wrote: »

uh the difference being....irish speakers can speak perfect english!!!! no disadvantage there!! they dont need the help.....

I am an Irish speaker, I has good engrish.

MathsManiac

lallychops wrote: »

once again you are missing my point. marking schemes have been made available for the benefit of students.

my point again is that people should be able to use these to maximise potential in exams...therefore should be printed in english aswell.....regardless of the relevance of english to the exam......i do not care about how bizarre it would be my point is its not esay for students to use thus defeating the purpose for which they were made available

I understand your point - I just don't agree. They are being helpful by making available documents that they already have. In my view, it is unreasonable to respond by demanding that they create a document that they don't already have.

Burswood

MathsManiac wrote: »

I understand your point - I just don't agree. They are being helpful by making available documents that they already have. In my view, it is unreasonable to respond by demanding that they create a document that they don't already have.

SEC would want all students to do the best in exams and learn the language to the best of their abilities. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take all the time in the world to translate about 8 pages of a marking scheme to help out 56,000 people.

**Timbuk2**

People are arguing that it's correct to have the Irish Marking Schemes in Irish, as the correctors are fluent, but using their logic, why aren't the French marking schemes in French?

lallychops

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

People are arguing that it's correct to have the Irish Marking Schemes in Irish, as the correctors are fluent, but using their logic, why aren't the French marking schemes in French?

thats a good point. or the german ones in german?? see?? you cant do it one way and not follow through with the rest its ridiculous!!

johnmcdnl

lallychops wrote: »

uh the difference being....irish speakers can speak perfect english!!!! no disadvantage there!! they dont need the help.....

why don't you become a fluent irish speaker then... how did the people who are fluent in irish become fluent in english according to your logic that is...

Burswood

johnmcdnl wrote: »

why don't you become a fluent irish speaker then... how did the people who are fluent in irish become fluent in english according to your logic that is...

okay.. as far as i can understand, the OP is already fluent in English, like the majority of this country.

the people who are fluent in irish either grew up speaking the language or learned through english to irish translation i.e in the classroom with a teacher who can't really teach the language anyway...

btw, maybe the OP can't become a fluent Irish speaker because of the dire way that Irish is actually taught.

johnmcdnl

it's an IRISH exam paper... there is NO ENGLISH on the paper.. no one answers the paper through English.. therefore there is absolutely no sense in publishing an English translation of the marking scheme... the marking scheme is what's given to the corrector and your being given a great resource to you so stop complaining.. if you can't understand it then buy a dictionary.. it's not the SEC that's teaching you... I'm sure if you asked your teacher to help they'd have helped you translate what's needed.. the SEC isn't your teacher or tutor.. their just giving you a copy of what they've used to correct previous exams... they don't use an English version of the marking scheme for Irish so why should they go to the bother of translating it for you... it's not their responsibility...

why don't they translate the marking schemes to Latvian and Estonian and Polish and every other language that's represented in our country too... because if they translate an Irish paper to English then there going to have to translate every single paper to every European language for a start.. Chinese etc etc...

they don't use an English marking scheme - therefore there not going to just post one for people who can't understand it... their just showing what they used to correct.. nothing else.. their not putting it up to help us... their not our teacher.. their just showing us what they used... simple as that

it's just as simple as that...

Bob the Builder

H2student wrote: »

....and most people, learn tens of essays off by heart without knowing what most of it means.

Ditto... Irish is a test of someone's ability to remember foreign jibberish and regurgitate it.

Burswood

johnmcdnl wrote: »

it's an IRISH exam paper... there is NO ENGLISH on the paper.. no one answers the paper through English.. therefore there is absolutely no sense in publishing an English translation of the marking scheme... the marking scheme is what's given to the corrector and your being given a great resource to you so stop complaining.. if you can't understand it then buy a dictionary.. it's not the SEC that's teaching you... I'm sure if you asked your teacher to help they'd have helped you translate what's needed.. the SEC isn't your teacher or tutor.. their just giving you a copy of what they've used to correct previous exams... they don't use an English version of the marking scheme for Irish so why should they go to the bother of translating it for you... it's not their responsibility...

why don't they translate the marking schemes to Latvian and Estonian and Polish and every other language that's represented in our country too... because if they translate an Irish paper to English then there going to have to translate every single paper to every European language for a start.. Chinese etc etc...

they don't use an English marking scheme - therefore there not going to just post one for people who can't understand it... their just showing what they used to correct.. nothing else.. their not putting it up to help us... their not our teacher.. their just showing us what they used... simple as that

it's just as simple as that...

you know, you're right. in one sense. they are showing us what they used to correct the papers.

but wouldn't it be very handy if said irish marking scheme was translated to english for a few people who just need a hand and that little bit extra help?

it would be. come on. im sure there's something that you're not good at but would like a hand with.. or maybe you're just absolutely perfect. i guess we'll never know.

misspiggy40

Hi All. See the SEC customer charter extract below. They accept that students are their customers. The marking scheme will only be a fabulous resource to the student if the student can understand it. The purpose of reading and analysing the scheme is to ensure that you understand how to make the very most of your one and only opportunity to get a good grade. Let that be in any subject. We are translating safety statements, legislation and many other documents into many languages in this country to ensure inclusivity for our wonderfully diverse cultures. I am pretty sure it would not be a major issue to translate a few pages into our main spoken language for the benefit of thousands of students. Or indeed into Polish, Chinese or any other tongue if the customer need arises. People tend to get very prickly when it comes to Irish. In this case, for the student, it is just another subject in a very tough exam. They should not be expected to be grateful for crumbs from the table. Give them the tools in the most accessible way possible and wish them well.

Good luck to all and well done for getting this far.

Customer Charter


The mission of the State Examinations Commission is “to provide a high quality state examinations and assessment system incorporating the highest standards of openness, fairness and accountability”. The Commission has a wide range of customers including examination candidates and their parents, school principals, teachers, school authorities, other Government Departments and offices, representative bodies, and many other national and international organisations. We are committed to providing a quality service to all our customers in every aspect of our operation. This Charter sets out the standards of service we aim to provide to our customers.

johnmcdnl

Burswood wrote: »

you know, you're right. in one sense. they are showing us what they used to correct the papers.

but wouldn't it be very handy if said irish marking scheme was translated to english for a few people who just need a hand and that little bit extra help?

it would be. come on. im sure there's something that you're not good at but would like a hand with.. or maybe you're just absolutely perfect. i guess we'll never know.

i'm not saying it wouldn't be handy like or that i don't want it.. i'm just saying it's not their obligation to do it.. like i'd love it but saying that i'd probably never use it.. but just in case... but it's not their obligation to provide it with it...

i didn't say it wouldn't be handy though.. it's just not their obligation

lallychops

misspiggy40 wrote: »

Hi All. See the SEC customer charter extract below. They accept that students are their customers. The marking scheme will only be a fabulous resource to the student if the student can understand it. The purpose of reading and analysing the scheme is to ensure that you understand how to make the very most of your one and only opportunity to get a good grade. Let that be in any subject. We are translating safety statements, legislation and many other documents into many languages in this country to ensure inclusivity for our wonderfully diverse cultures. I am pretty sure it would not be a major issue to translate a few pages into our main spoken language for the benefit of thousands of students. Or indeed into Polish, Chinese or any other tongue if the customer need arises. People tend to get very prickly when it comes to Irish. In this case, for the student, it is just another subject in a very tough exam. They should not be expected to be grateful for crumbs from the table. Give them the tools in the most accessible way possible and wish them well.

Good luck to all and well done for getting this far.

Customer Charter


The mission of the State Examinations Commission is “to provide a high quality state examinations and assessment system incorporating the highest standards of openness, fairness and accountability”. The Commission has a wide range of customers including examination candidates and their parents, school principals, teachers, school authorities, other Government Departments and offices, representative bodies, and many other national and international organisations. We are committed to providing a quality service to all our customers in every aspect of our operation. This Charter sets out the standards of service we aim to provide to our customers.

thank you very much very much appreciate that information:)

TheDenominator

johnmcdnl wrote: »

i'm not saying it wouldn't be handy like or that i don't want it.. i'm just saying it's not their obligation to do it.. like i'd love it but saying that i'd probably never use it.. but just in case... but it's not their obligation to provide it with it...

i didn't say it wouldn't be handy though.. it's just not their obligation

Of course it would be handy. Thats the whole point. What i don't get is this attitude alot of people here seem to have.... 'oh we should be praising the almighty SEC for even considering us lowly mortals worthy enough to lay eyes upon their sacred marking schemes! Someone questions this? Blasphemy!!'
Yeah how dare someone ask that they take a little bit of time to translate a few f***ing pages to help thousands of students across the country.....