Real, effective reform- what needs to be done

merlynthewizard

What needs to be done in Ireland to finally get a county free of Gombeens,criminal TD's,Criminal bankers and all round cute hoors in positions of influence.
Is there any hope or is it crooked to the core?

Permabear

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merlynthewizard

donegalfella wrote: »

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Anything is better than the current system

RichardAnd

We all know the problems and whining in here will do nothing (that's not a bash at the OP).

I would love to see change, the welfare state dismantled, the Public Service trimmed down and made more effective, less nepotism but it won't happen. The reason is simple, we can never have a different Ireland as long as the Irish are here.

Let no one be under any doubt, this recession will not see a new age because Ireland has and ever shall be the same race of people living in this isolated little island. People here whine and complain but when it comes down to it, you won't see much action.

But we can be realistic. Recessions come and go, they're a natural part of a cycle. What makes this one special is that it follows our first boom and thus, it seems alot harder than it really is for many people. In a few years, this will be in the past and things will be back to "normal". We probably wont' have another boom but when you look at what the last one did, we're probably better off.

But if its people out on the streets you want, close down every pub in Dublin for a week and see what happens.

merlynthewizard

I would love to see change, the welfare state dismantled, the Public Service trimmed down and made more effective, less nepotism but it won't happen. The reason is simple, we can never have a different Ireland as long as the Irish are here.

What do you mean dismantled..and what then?

Let no one be under any doubt, this recession will not see a new age because Ireland has and ever shall be the same race of people living in this isolated little island. People here whine and complain but when it comes down to it, you won't see much action.

I agree with this, i can see why people take the piss out of us.

RichardAnd

merlynthewizard wrote: »

What do you mean dismantled..and what then?

What I mean is that there won't be benefits and grants for every iota of people's lives. I'm not suggesting we abandon those in need but what's there at the moment is too generous. There are so many state funded "entitlements" that people don't need to be responsible for what they do.

For example, people go to college without paying fees so very few people take it seriously. Loads of people don't take sexual responsibility and have litters of kids without thinking how they can support them because the state has their back. And let's not forget those, and I'll quote Ned Flanders here: let's not forget the folks who just don't feel like working, God bless 'em!

merlynthewizard

RichardAnd wrote: »

What I mean is that there won't be benefits and grants for every iota of people's lives. I'm not suggesting we abandon those in need but what's there at the moment is too generous. There are so many state funded "entitlements" that people don't need to be responsible for what they do.

For example, people go to college without paying fees so very few people take it seriously. Loads of people don't take sexual responsibility and have litters of kids without thinking how they can support them because the state has their back. And let's not forget those, and I'll quote Ned Flanders here: let's not forget the folks who just don't feel like working, God bless 'em!

Fair enough but benefits should be higher for people with stamps paid for a period of time like in Europe not lower and the constitution needs to be changed to cover public floggings of FF td's

People who win a draw on 'lucky streak' get to beat one every week

Head The Wall

merlynthewizard wrote: »

Fair enough but benefits should be higher for people with stamps paid for a period of time like in Europe not lower and the constitution needs to be changed to cover public floggings of FF td's

People who win a draw on 'lucky streak' get to beat one every week

I'll agree on the first part but going on winning streak should also be considered as a punishment

peasant

The first step to real reform is to change the voting system and drastically reduce the number of TD's.

Members of the Dail should have a full time job in looking after the country ...no more constituentcy work and basically no constituents either.

The fix-my-pothole-and-I'll-vote-for-you tribalism has to disappear out of Irish politics.

If you approach "your" TD asking for a favour (s)he should be able to (obliged to!) tell you to feck off without having to fear for re-election.

A list voting system would probably suit and as a radical proposition for the first election in the new system I would propose that existing politicians of the old system running again in the new system would not be allowed to do so where they live, have lived or have been elected before.

The_Honeybadger

peasant wrote: »

The first step to real reform is to change the voting system and drastically reduce the number of TD's.

Members of the Dail should have a full time job in looking after the country ...no more constituentcy work and basically no constituents either.

The fix-my-pothole-and-I'll-vote-for-you tribalism has to disappear out of Irish politics.

If you approach "your" TD asking for a favour (s)he should be able to (obliged to!) tell you to feck off without having to fear for re-election.

A list voting system would probably suit and as a radical proposition for the first election in the new system I would propose that existing politicians of the old system running again in the new system would not be allowed to do so where they live, have lived or have been elected before.

+1 and how about taking the minister for finance job and giving it to somebody who is qualified to do it, a non-political figure who is not worried about getting re-elected. This particular role is too important to be handed to barristers and teachers, hoping that they can learn on the job. Would an astute economic expert have handed anglo a blank cheque in the way that B. Lenihan did in sept 08.

jimmycrackcorm

What is needed is electronic voting. It pissed me off so much how the voting machines were abandoned out of a narrow minded fear. Instead I saw it as a first step to having a society where everyone could vote for all issues.

What would change to enable that would be the drive towards clarifying the issues and their proposals to a much higher degree than they currently are.

For example many people objected to nama without considering the alternatives. Had we the ability to individually vote for this then we'd have much more information presented to us to make a decision.

Instead we have a situation where we trust our money in online banking but cannot trust online voting.

SkepticOne

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

For example many people objected to nama without considering the alternatives. Had we the ability to individually vote for this then we'd have much more information presented to us to make a decision.

I think people's problems with nama was that the government decided on NAMA without any consideration for the alternatives.

kuntboy

mickeyk wrote: »

+ Would an astute economic expert have handed anglo a blank cheque in the way that B. Lenihan did in sept 08.

Its quite possible that a so-called "astute economic expert" would have done no better. Didn't "experts" like Greenspan fukc up the US economy?

There are too many vested interests in critical positions in this country resisting change. Nothing will change until it absolutely has to and only total collapse will precipitate that. The institutions are too immature and has someone said here once the Enlightenment never came here and it's evident in everything.

dromdrom

donegalfella wrote: »

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This quote pretty much sums it up in my opinion, very well put. Reduce the state to being little more that a custodian of law and order with as little a role in the real economy as possible and let the individual have the choice and opportunity to run their own lives within the confines of a regulatory system based around the "do no harm" principle (i.e not over regulated at the whim of Government officials under influence from special interests)

If a law is in-acted it needs to be vetted by a solid institution with its integrity beyond doubt to ensure that it is for the benefit of all society and not just a certain portion or group (like a central bank for regulation).

Jimmy Garlic

merlynthewizard wrote: »

What needs to be done in Ireland to finally get a county free of Gombeens,criminal TD's,Criminal bankers and all round cute hoors in positions of influence.
Is there any hope or is it crooked to the core?

They will continue unabated, nobody is stopping them. As long as people are happy enough to lap up the drivel that is drip fed to them via the media the farce will continue. "A lot done, more to do", that is the motto of every snivelling, back slapping clique on this island. Ireland is kaput, the insane took over this asylum decades ago.

The_Honeybadger

kuntboy wrote: »

Its quite possible that a so-called "astute economic expert" would have done no better. Didn't "experts" like Greenspan fukc up the US economy?

There are too many vested interests in critical positions in this country resisting change. Nothing will change until it absolutely has to and only total collapse will precipitate that. The institutions are too immature and has someone said here once the Enlightenment never came here and it's evident in everything.

You're right it is possible and we probably need an utter collapse before meaningful change can take place. However I stand by my assertion that we would have had a better chance if somebody who had trained in, and understood financial systems and macro economics was holding the purse strings of the exchequer.

Head The Wall

mickeyk wrote: »

You're right it is possible and we probably need an utter collapse before meaningful change can take place. However I stand by my assertion that we would have had a better chance if somebody who had trained in, and understood financial systems and macro economics was holding the purse strings of the exchequer.

I have one year of Latin studies under my belt. Am I ready for the job?:D

Taxipete29

donegalfella wrote: »

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So instead of Govt we have large multi-nationals imposing their will and agenda. You would simply be trading one elite group for another.

Liberalism is no better than the current system. It simply suits your particular way of thinking. I have yet to see one advocate of a liberal system who is not financially sound. Your thinking reflects your own position in society as opposed to viewing things with a "veil of ignorance"

Chuchoter

A lot less nepotism, fewer TDs and less procrastination. 70% of our problem is people fecking around doing nothing about anything, trying to appease different groups or waiting for things to disappear.